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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Cleveland Officer Not Guilty in Killing Unarmed Pair [Re: rxb]
    #21731978 - 05/28/15 10:18 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
Quote:

so where's the evidence that one of them was a hostage?




wheres the proof he participated in anything illegal willingly?






did either of them try to exit the vehicle at any time?


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Cleveland Officer Not Guilty in Killing Unarmed Pair [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21731993 - 05/28/15 10:22 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

rxb said:
Quote:

so where's the evidence that one of them was a hostage?




innocent til proven guilty right?

wheres the proof he participated in anything illegal willingly?





so the cops are supposed to simply lay down and die and hope the criminal turn
themselves in for trial? how are these criminals supposed to be apprehended for
trial when they're determined to kill anyone that tries to stop them.

do the cops not have the right to defend their lives?

why is it no one wants to give an answer to that last question





1- there is no eveidence for intent to kill any police officers that i have seen in this case.  It seems more likely that they thought they could ram their way free and make a break for it.

2-yes, cops have a right to defend their lives.  However, cops have the benefit of TRAINING, whereas ordinary citizens generally don't.  Therfore, it is reasonable to expect cops to show more restraint than an untrained joe blow.


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Cleveland Officer Not Guilty in Killing Unarmed Pair [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21732006 - 05/28/15 10:26 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
i see everyone's car's coming at me when i try to cross the street... shit in both directions. must be trying to kill me.





http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0118093



LOL, both for reference and for the overall message.

look, i like discussing things, usually that doesn't really occur here. nuance isn't really prevalent... and... i don't really know what i know, i only think i do, and thus, i mostly believe A: those who have more experience than I, and B: the most likely outcomes, being that they are most likely because they are aimed by those whom are more decisive, are usually better outcomes.

but i will still question everything. i just don't believe everything.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: Cleveland Officer Not Guilty in Killing Unarmed Pair [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21732010 - 05/28/15 10:28 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

do the cops not have the right to defend their lives?




yes, and they also have the opportunity to make mistakes or take things too far, out of sheer juxtaposition of events occurring to them at a given time.

like people.


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
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Re: Cleveland Officer Not Guilty in Killing Unarmed Pair [Re: ballsalsa]
    #21732015 - 05/28/15 10:30 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

rxb said:
Quote:

so where's the evidence that one of them was a hostage?




innocent til proven guilty right?

wheres the proof he participated in anything illegal willingly?





so the cops are supposed to simply lay down and die and hope the criminal turn
themselves in for trial? how are these criminals supposed to be apprehended for
trial when they're determined to kill anyone that tries to stop them.

do the cops not have the right to defend their lives?

why is it no one wants to give an answer to that last question





1- there is no eveidence for intent to kill any police officers that i have seen in this case.  It seems more likely that they thought they could ram their way free and make a break for it.

2-yes, cops have a right to defend their lives.  However, cops have the benefit of TRAINING, whereas ordinary citizens generally don't.  Therfore, it is reasonable to expect cops to show more restraint than an untrained joe blow.




"no evidence for intent to kill"

It's not about "intent to kill", it's about intent to potentially injure or kill, the law doesn't care.

A person could fired a gun at a cop and shoot him in the leg, one could also use the rationalization that there was "no evidence for intent to kill", that line of reasoning doesn't work in the real world or the legal system.


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan Flag
Re: Cleveland Officer Not Guilty in Killing Unarmed Pair [Re: ballsalsa]
    #21732024 - 05/28/15 10:32 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

rxb said:
Quote:

so where's the evidence that one of them was a hostage?




innocent til proven guilty right?

wheres the proof he participated in anything illegal willingly?





so the cops are supposed to simply lay down and die and hope the criminal turn
themselves in for trial? how are these criminals supposed to be apprehended for
trial when they're determined to kill anyone that tries to stop them.

do the cops not have the right to defend their lives?

why is it no one wants to give an answer to that last question





1- there is no eveidence for intent to kill any police officers that i have seen in this case.  It seems more likely that they thought they could ram their way free and make a break for it.

2-yes, cops have a right to defend their lives.  However, cops have the benefit of TRAINING, whereas ordinary citizens generally don't.  Therfore, it is reasonable to expect cops to show more restraint than an untrained joe blow.




My point exactly, two people attempting to escape capture, not necessarily kill anyone. Theres also plenty of other available options to police other then brute force takedowns. A coordinated deployment of speed sticks wouldve been the usual go to a decade ago. The pit maneuver, shooting out there tires, waiting till they ran out of gas, positive ID and issue of a warrant. It seems like American police are leaning more and more towards absolute compliance or death.


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Onlinerxb
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Re: Cleveland Officer Not Guilty in Killing Unarmed Pair [Re: qman]
    #21732025 - 05/28/15 10:32 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

so the cops are supposed to simply lay down and die and hope the criminal turn
themselves in for trial?




its that or murder eh?


--------------------
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. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Onlinerxb
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Re: Cleveland Officer Not Guilty in Killing Unarmed Pair [Re: rxb]
    #21732028 - 05/28/15 10:33 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

two people attempting to escape capture




one person, attempting to escape capture.

one person...trapped in a vehicle?


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Posts: 20,863
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: Cleveland Officer Not Guilty in Killing Unarmed Pair [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #21732038 - 05/28/15 10:38 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

It's not about "intent to kill", it's about intent to potentially injure or kill, the law doesn't care.

A person could fired a gun at a cop and shoot him in the leg, one could also use the rationalization that there was "no evidence for intent to kill", that line of reasoning doesn't work in the real world or the legal system.






I posted that in response to

Quote:

how are these criminals supposed to be apprehended for
trial when they're determined to kill anyone that tries to stop them.




the point was to show that this is a straw man argument.
of course, anyone would seem crazy if they disagreed with shooting criminals that are intent on killing anyone who tries to stop them.
But not everyone who runs from the cops fits that description soooo....


--------------------


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Cleveland Officer Not Guilty in Killing Unarmed Pair [Re: ballsalsa]
    #21732056 - 05/28/15 10:44 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

It's not about "intent to kill", it's about intent to potentially injure or kill, the law doesn't care.

A person could fired a gun at a cop and shoot him in the leg, one could also use the rationalization that there was "no evidence for intent to kill", that line of reasoning doesn't work in the real world or the legal system.






I posted that in response to

Quote:

how are these criminals supposed to be apprehended for
trial when they're determined to kill anyone that tries to stop them.




the point was to show that this is a straw man argument.
of course, anyone would seem crazy if they disagreed with shooting criminals that are intent on killing anyone who tries to stop them.
But not everyone who runs from the cops fits that description soooo....




You're correct, not everyone who runs from the cops has intent to kill anyone, but that's not what happened in this case.  The car backfired and convinced the police they were being shot at by the suspects and they also rammed their vehicle into the police car, every situation is different and the judge decided their decisions were legal that day.


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Onlinerxb
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Re: Cleveland Officer Not Guilty in Killing Unarmed Pair [Re: qman] * 1
    #21732058 - 05/28/15 10:45 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

you keep saying they.

the passenger rammed no one.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Onlinerxb
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Re: Cleveland Officer Not Guilty in Killing Unarmed Pair [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21732070 - 05/28/15 10:50 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

rxb said:
Quote:

so where's the evidence that one of them was a hostage?




wheres the proof he participated in anything illegal willingly?






did either of them try to exit the vehicle at any time?




did they have an opportunity?


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Cleveland Officer Not Guilty in Killing Unarmed Pair [Re: qman]
    #21732082 - 05/28/15 10:55 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The car backfired and convinced the police they were being shot at by the suspects and they also rammed their vehicle into the police car




agreed.  I just wanted to point out that there is no evidence to indicate that the suspects ACTUALLY were trying to hurt anyone at all.  Maybe the cops were justified, maybe not, thats been decided in court.  But i think it is a mis-characterization to imply that the suspects were some sort of bloodthirsty cop killers.  Criminals? almost certainly.  Attempted cop murderers?  it just doesn't sound like it to me


--------------------


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Offlineqman
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Re: Cleveland Officer Not Guilty in Killing Unarmed Pair [Re: ballsalsa]
    #21732123 - 05/28/15 11:07 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

The car backfired and convinced the police they were being shot at by the suspects and they also rammed their vehicle into the police car




agreed.  I just wanted to point out that there is no evidence to indicate that the suspects ACTUALLY were trying to hurt anyone at all.  Maybe the cops were justified, maybe not, thats been decided in court.  But i think it is a mis-characterization to imply that the suspects were some sort of bloodthirsty cop killers.  Criminals? almost certainly.  Attempted cop murderers?  it just doesn't sound like it to me




"no evidence to indicate that the suspects ACTUALLY were trying to hurt anyone at all."

Their actions clearly showed they had no regard for anyone's life or safety, it doesn't matter if they "ACTUALLY were trying to hurt anyone".  Why is this concept to difficult to understand?  Their actions COULD have killed many innocent people!



"Attempted cop murderers?"

I don't think anyone has tried to make this argument. :shrug:  The police didn't need to prove that statement in the court of law to justify their actions in this case.


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Onlinerxb
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Re: Cleveland Officer Not Guilty in Killing Unarmed Pair [Re: qman]
    #21732127 - 05/28/15 11:08 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

no evidence that a passenger did anything to harm anyone at all.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Cleveland Officer Not Guilty in Killing Unarmed Pair [Re: rxb]
    #21732174 - 05/28/15 11:22 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

The car backfired and convinced the police they were being shot at by the suspects and they also rammed their vehicle into the police car




agreed.  I just wanted to point out that there is no evidence to indicate that the suspects ACTUALLY were trying to hurt anyone at all.  Maybe the cops were justified, maybe not, thats been decided in court.  But i think it is a mis-characterization to imply that the suspects were some sort of bloodthirsty cop killers.  Criminals? almost certainly.  Attempted cop murderers?  it just doesn't sound like it to me




"no evidence to indicate that the suspects ACTUALLY were trying to hurt anyone at all."

Their actions clearly showed they had no regard for anyone's life or safety, it doesn't matter if they "ACTUALLY were trying to hurt anyone".  Why is this concept to difficult to understand?  Their actions COULD have killed many innocent people!



"Attempted cop murderers?"

I don't think anyone has tried to make this argument. :shrug:  The police didn't need to prove that statement in the court of law to justify their actions in this case.





Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

rxb said:
Quote:

so where's the evidence that one of them was a hostage?




innocent til proven guilty right?

wheres the proof he participated in anything illegal willingly?





so the cops are supposed to simply lay down and die and hope the criminal turn
themselves in for trial? how are these criminals supposed to be apprehended for
trial when they're determined to kill anyone that tries to stop them.


do the cops not have the right to defend their lives?

why is it no one wants to give an answer to that last question




so you see, Pris pretty much did make the argument.  I'm not disagreeing with use of force in this case, just with making the suspects out to be something we have no evidence for.  Also, as i stated before, i think that Officer Brelo is a fool who's watched too many buddy-cop action flicks. (though it's largely irrelevent to this case since the suspects had already been shot many times before officer Brelo opened fire)


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Onlinerxb
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Re: Cleveland Officer Not Guilty in Killing Unarmed Pair [Re: ballsalsa]
    #21732200 - 05/28/15 11:33 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

i dont see how you say they were defending their life against a passenger.

and neither do you people because you keep lumping the passengers actions in with the driver.

i'll tell you what. come ride with me. and if you touch my brake, or me i'm going to beat you within an inch of your life.

so without doing something thats going to make me harm YOU... stop me from doing things with my car, or leave the vehicle without fear of death.

you cant do it. its not possible. you can grab the brake, but you cant in ALL situations.

you can try to get out, but you may die.

the cops shot somoene who no one can prove had ANYTHING to do with it.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Cleveland Officer Not Guilty in Killing Unarmed Pair [Re: Turtletotem]
    #21732937 - 05/28/15 03:18 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Turtletotem said:
Wow, such cool, tough language from some of you here! Real hardassess... real men. You must feel so proud, with your fucking stiffies for police brutality.
Go on, you can rub one out on the picture of the aftermath. I know you want to. Maybe stroke eachother off... yeah.

Fucking hell man. You fucking fucks... two people are dead, most people find this an outrage as they should, and then there are these motherfuckers who are eerily okay with it. Like they don't see them as real people? I don't know.
Trivializing death is never a sign of a healthy mind, I tell you that.




I do not find it an outrage that somebody who fled the police at 100MPH and endangered thousands is dead.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Cleveland Officer Not Guilty in Killing Unarmed Pair [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #21732943 - 05/28/15 03:21 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Quote:

Supachopped719 said:
They did ram a police car. You try and kill a cop don't be pissed when they kill you.

There are real issues with police brutality, this isn't one of them.




He jumped on the hood of their car and executed them when the pursuit had already ended and no one was injured or in danger, that cop killed two unarmed people in cold blood. He should be put to death. Thats such a gross misappropriation of force.

And I didnt even read this thread but I know pris is waving his diamond hard erection for the police everywhere.




There is not one shred of evidence that he fired the fatal shot.  That was part of the problem with the case.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Cleveland Officer Not Guilty in Killing Unarmed Pair [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21732952 - 05/28/15 03:23 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

And I didnt even read this thread but I know pris is waving his diamond hard erection for the police everywhere.




:yeahthatsfunny:


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