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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Ciggarettes [Re: MilkdudTitties]
    #21729615 - 05/27/15 05:29 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

That's still a really high nic percentage especially if you are taking huge clouds, no wonder you were getting dizzy and shit.
You say one 15ml bottle? How long did you vape for a couple days?
One you shouldn't puff it constantly and two it's likely your nic percentage was way too high. 24mg is generally recommended for people who smoked like 2 packs a day or more on average - the straight chain smoking fiends. Or if you are using a sub-ohm tank or something then it needs to be even lower, the more vapor the less nicotine concentration you need. 12mg or 18mg is what most people do on tanks who are starting out. Even 12mg is way too much for me now, I vape 3mg on a dripper, may go to 2mg soon.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Ciggarettes [Re: ManianFH] * 2
    #21729640 - 05/27/15 05:37 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

:highfive:

just trying to educate. I got two people PMing me asking me about vaping shit now so I guess it worked.


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OnlineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Ciggarettes [Re: Shroomism]
    #21729893 - 05/27/15 06:50 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

dewd 24mg is wayyy too high dewd. I like nice milky vapour but ive learned I like to keep the nicotine low like less than 12mg even.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Ciggarettes [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #21729901 - 05/27/15 06:52 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

fo reals tho. I vaped 12 on a tank. Dropped to 6mg on a dripper, now I'm comfy at 3. Even that can give me a buzz if I blow monster clouds, I may try 2 or 1.


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OnlineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Ciggarettes [Re: Shroomism]
    #21729923 - 05/27/15 06:58 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Yeh most people I talk with have weened down on the nic levels. The first day I walked into a vape store they were like yeh we got all these different nicotine concentrations  and i was like psssh give me the strongest one. :lol: I dont think anyone should really be vaping a +24mg liquid even if you were a 4 pack a day smoker or something outragious.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Ciggarettes [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #21729970 - 05/27/15 07:16 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Nicotine has been my fix lately.

and those 500 chemicals... erm... MMMMMM.  :smoker:


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Offlineteamkiller
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Re: Ciggarettes [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21729978 - 05/27/15 07:20 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

vaping 24mg right now :frown: i can go down to 18  but 12 is too low so far.  I use a normal low watt tank.


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Invisiblerackem
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Re: Ciggarettes [Re: teamkiller]
    #21730130 - 05/27/15 08:01 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

if your using an ego style entry level pen your going to want to keep your nic levels up.

but once you spend monies on a better setup, drop that shit immediatly


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OfflinemndfreezeMDiscordReddit
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Re: Ciggarettes [Re: MilkdudTitties]
    #21730914 - 05/28/15 01:02 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MilkdudTitties said:
Quote:

Shroomism said:
Quote:

MilkdudTitties said:
Vaping does nothing?

When i was vaping that juice i would get pretty damn messed up. I could easily vape enough to puke.

While at the same time i could smoke over a pack a day and feel nothing from smoking.


Vaping gives a much stronger nicotine buzz. I quit vaping because it was turning me into a nicotine fiend. I was vaping constantly pretty much, at least every 2-3 minutes

I would rather smoke a cigarette every 2-3 hours instead of vaping every 2-3 minutes




What nic % were you vaping at and wtf kind of juice were you vaping that was enough to almost make you puke? WTF were you vaping 36mg/ml?



the e-juice i got said 24mg of nicotine and it was a 15ml bottle.

Im not joking around though, when i did it i was literally vaping constantly. I would hit it more than once every minute, and i was taking giant hits. Actually i would pretty much just hit it constantly, only stopping to breathe fresh air when i started to get too light headed

Thats not healthy, and thats why i stopped using e-cigs, because if i wasn't constantly taking big vape hits, i thought that i should be





I used 24mg juice when I first quit smoking.  I smoked full flavor camels, pack to pack and a half a day and needed that extra ooommpph to help get me away from the habitual as much as the physical nicotine withdrawl.  I was vaping a LOT because it didnt 100% satisfy my urges to smoke, sort of like when you are hooked to a very specific brand a cig and then only have some completely different brand all day, it never quite satisfies the same.

Because of that I would get nicotine sick pretty damn quick, especially if I didn't eat.  After the first week tho as I adjusted to it I started vaping more on par with what my smoking schedule was like, and after a few months like that I started dropping my nicotine level.  I'm at 12mg now and about to drop to 6 on my next order.  24mg is daaaamn strong stuff if you are hitting it a lot.


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quote]Urb said:
I know... Its fucked up... Ill fix it minyana..[/quote]


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Ciggarettes [Re: Shroomism]
    #21731652 - 05/28/15 08:33 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
People suck on those vape pens way more than they puff on cigs IME. They hit their vape pens all day. I'll bet the nicotine dose is pretty comparable (maybe even higher for some). There might be less carcinogens in vape oil, but the cardiovascular effects from the nicotine are probably pretty comparable. I don't think it's well studied, but if anybody is serious about quitting, then they should quit the vape ASAP too. Who knows what minor side products are really in those vape oils. I doubt they're well regulated. Plus I've heard of people getting heavy metal poisoning from cheap heating elements. The vape might be safer than real cigs, but it's still bad idea. Don't glamorize it.




Heavy metal poisoning eh? Please do post sources. Or are you talking about contaminated e-juice from China?
Or are you talking about the 100% flawed, unscientific bullshit study that got plastered everywhere saying Ecigs produce more formaldehyde than cigarettes?

That one has been thoroughly debunked, btw, and was based on a completely unrealistic, non-real world test and does not hold up to any kind of actual scientific scrutiny.
http://www.ecigarette-research.org/research/index.php/research/research-2015/210-ald

Vape 'oil' what kind of oil are we talking about here? I don't know what kind of ejuice you are vaping...

Ecigs do need to be further studied, but what we DO know so far based on hundreds of studies is that it is without a single solitary doubt a MUCH safer alternative to smoking and a very effective means of quitting.

The problem is that since it is an unregulated industry there can be any number of variables including poor quality control, contamination and other terrible things. Hence why it is important to do your research and only buy from trusted vendors who follow the highest standards for quality so you aren't buying some shitty ejuice from some factory in Shanghai or whatever.

Don't unglamorize it, Ecigs Save fucking lives.




The heavy metal poisoning was from shitty Chinese heating elements, not from shitty Chinese oil. I can't remember where I read about it, but it is a small risk, and I'm sure it's easily avoidable if you don't cheap out. I was just using it as an example to show how poorly regulated all this shit is, which is a health concern.



As for the glam,

I've seen nonsmokers start smoking vapes, and I've seen pack a day smokers switch to them. For pack a day smokers it's a good switch, but for a nonsmoker it's probably a bad idea, especially when they puff on the thing all day long. The vapes sell well for the same reason that normal cigs sell well: smoking is cool and people are dumb. I strongly doubt that most people use e-cigs in a disciplined manor to stop smoking entirely, but when they do, it's probably about as harmful and effective as nicorette gum or nicotine patches. That is a plus for people who are seriously trying to quit smoking [EDIT: It is probably overall a better alternative even for continuing habitual use], but for anybody else the benefits are dubious at best.

The fact of the matter is that selling vapes and vape oil is profitable as shit right now, and sexing it up is nothing but amoral profiteering until more thorough research has been done. All this premature hype reminds me of when heroine was marketed as a cure for morphine addiction.



I'm also not seeing the benefits of smoking propylene glycol. It might work well as an environmental disinfectant, but that doesn't mean inhaling it is a good idea. One of the links you posted says it works as an immunosupressent, which is good during an asthma attack but is bad for an otherwise healthy lung. Here's a quote from one of your links:

""E-cigarette vapor alone produced mild effects on the lungs, including inflammation and protein damage," Sussan explained. "However, when this exposure was followed by a bacterial or viral infection, the harmful effects of e-cigarette exposure became even more pronounced. The e-cigarette exposure inhibited the ability of mice to clear the bacteria from their lungs, and the viral infection led to increased weight loss and death indicative of an impaired immune response.”"

Sure, those mice died after being exposed to glamorous e-cig vapor, and granted, mice are way more susceptible to respiratory infections than humans. But carelessly fucking with the immune system in your lungs for no good reason is stupid, not beneficial.

EDIT: I should clarify. The link states that a the immune system was suppressed by e-cig smoke, not propylene glycol specifically. Though there is some evidence that suggests propylene glycol may be immunotoxic.


Edited by Mr.GuessWork (05/28/15 09:00 AM)


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Invisiblethelanzii

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Re: Ciggarettes [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21732078 - 05/28/15 10:53 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

phenibut


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Offlineteamkiller
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Re: Ciggarettes [Re: thelanzii]
    #21732106 - 05/28/15 11:03 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

when i started smoking, i never imaged such thing as an electronic ciggarrette.  it feels so futuristic.  Where i live (denver) TONS of people use them.  Everywhere i see them, probably more than i see people smoking cigs. We've got like 8-10 vape shops I think.
Feels good man.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Ciggarettes [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21733614 - 05/28/15 06:02 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)



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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Ciggarettes [Re: Shroomism]
    #21736084 - 05/29/15 09:13 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

It'd be nice to post some quick summary of relevant info when you post droves of links like that. It's hard to tease out the important info from some of those links and most of them weren't focused on studying immunosupression specifically. Here's a link about some study of the immunotoxicity of propylene glycol on human NK cells and neutrophils (was done in vitro).


http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/a?dbs+hsdb:@term+@DOCNO+174

""
/IMMUNOTOXICITY/ ... The in vitro effects of propylene glycol on human natural killer cell and neutrophil cell populations was studied. In the first half of the experiment, a natural killer cytotoxicity assay was performed. Peripheral mononuclear cells were isolated from the blood of one human volunteer and used as the effector cells in the assay. Cultured K562 erythroleukemia cells were used as the target cells. Three concentrations of effector cells were incubated in separate wells of microtiter plates with propylene glycol in phosphate-buffered saline (PBS) diluted to final concentrations of 0.01, 0.1, and 1%. PBS alone was used as a control. 100 uL of the target cells was added to each well. Cytotoxicity was measured by observing the percentage (51)Cr release. The cytotoxicity of human natural killer cells was decreased significantly when cells were incubated with 1% propylene glycol (p < 0.002). Concentrations of 0.01 and 0.1% propylene glycol did not significantly decrease the natural killer cell activity. In the second part of the experiment, ... the effects of propylene glycol /were tested/ on isolated human neutrophils. Blood was collected from a human volunteer, and mononuclear cells were isolated. The isolated cells were incubated in a solution containing Hank's Balanced Salt Solution, heparin, and 10 uL luminol (5-amino-2,3-dihydro-1,4-phthalazimedione). The incubated cells were taken in aliquots of 1mL and placed in specially designed cuvettes for 30 min. The cells were then incubated with propylene glycol diluted to final concentrations of 0.0, 0.1, 0.5, or 1.0%. Latex particles coated with IgG were added to each tube, and the chemiluminescence was measured. The neutrophil chemiluminescence was significantly decreased in the cells incubated with 0.5 and 1.0 % propylene glycol.
[Cosmetic Ingredient Review Expert Panel; J Am Coll Toxicol 13 (6): 437-91 (1994)] **PEER REVIEWED**

/IMMUNOTOXICITY/ In vitro, 1% propylene glycol is cytotoxic to natural killer cells.
[IPCS; Poisons Information Monograph 443: Propylene glycol (May 1994). Available from, as of January 4, 2009: http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/chemical/pim443.htm **PEER REVIEWED**

""

The data is not conclusive, but it definitely suggests that propylene glycol could interefere with the immune system in the lungs.  What really matters though is that the mice's immune systems were suppressed by the e-cig vapor, and that's bad. It's probably not as bad a real cigs, but it's still detrimental.



Here's another okay link about how shitty the quality control is with these things. The producers are lucky their market doesn't actually care about accuracy.

http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/23/suppl_2/ii11.full


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Offlineteamkiller
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Re: Ciggarettes [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21736718 - 05/29/15 12:42 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I agree, i'm pretty concerned about the many unknowns with using an e-cig.  Smoking cigs was a known killing me and destroying my quality of life.  I feel a lot better in the short term using an ecig, so i'm willing to gamble the short term benefit over the long term unknown.

I hope all the science people start investigating the shit out of them though.


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