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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,863
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: How much is a living wage? [Re: Enlil]
#21808589 - 06/14/15 10:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: That just means that the employee's work is worth 20 dollars per hour, and the rest of the work to run and advertise the company is worth 55 per hour.
i see where you're goin with that, but this is a real life business that i'm using as an example, so let me add some details.
The company is really an aquarium shop. They do quite a bit of service work, but it is really an expansion of the existing business. This shop has been in business for 40 years. they have no advertising for the service work, other than face to face inside the shop. Most of this is done directly by the employees. The customers call the employees directly on their personal phones. The employees handle all billing for their accounts and simply submit the checks and invoices to the office once per week. the employees use their personal vehicles.
my point is that the service billing is all gravy for the shop owners. they literally do almost nothing extra and collect a lot of extra money.(maybe more than the aquarium shop makes in sales)
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,510
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: How much is a living wage? [Re: ballsalsa]
#21808595 - 06/14/15 10:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Whatever they do, it's clearly worth 55 an hour or people wouldn't pay it.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: How much is a living wage? [Re: Shins] 1
#21808877 - 06/15/15 12:13 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Shins said:
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BoldAsLove said:
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Shins said: No, he's full of crap.
if they are worth more they can go work for other companies at a higher wage (free market)
That's only the case when there isn't a labor excess as there is now. People are willing to work for lower wages now because there are more prospective job seekers than there are jobs. Companies know this, offer lower wages, and still have numerous applicants for each position.
No its all the time. If there are ten million other people who can do your job too that means you aren't worth more. Supply and demand.
You just confirmed my point. It's exactly supply and demand. If the supply of labor is larger than the demand for labor, then employers can pay very little because people will line up for the job anyways. If the supply of labor is smaller than the demand for labor, then employers have to compete to attract labor to their job and will therefore offer higher wages. We are currently in the former situation.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: How much is a living wage? [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21810018 - 06/15/15 10:08 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
We are currently in the former situation.
only for some industries. There will always be certain industries that will be struggling due to new technologies. I'm sure there was an excess labor supply in the horse carriage industry when the automobile took off.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: How much is a living wage? [Re: psyconaught]
#21810538 - 06/15/15 12:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Shins was talking about minimum wage workers. They are typically low skill and in large excess, regardless of the industry.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: How much is a living wage? [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21810549 - 06/15/15 12:19 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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And a hike in min. wage will only serve to further the gap between supply and demand.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: How much is a living wage? [Re: psyconaught]
#21810624 - 06/15/15 12:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Not particularly relevant to what we were discussing. And also, although it seems intuitive, it's not necessarily true. See this study. I'm not saying it's definitive by any means, but I don't think the question has been settled yet.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: How much is a living wage? [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21821314 - 06/17/15 10:54 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
BoldAsLove said:
Quote:
Shins said:
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BoldAsLove said:
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Shins said: if they are worth more they can go work for other companies at a higher wage (free market)
That's only the case when there isn't a labor excess as there is now. People are willing to work for lower wages now because there are more prospective job seekers than there are jobs. Companies know this, offer lower wages, and still have numerous applicants for each position.
No its all the time. If there are ten million other people who can do your job too that means you aren't worth more. Supply and demand.
You just confirmed my point.
Exactly - shins just demolished his original point in a big way. People aren't paid what they're worth to a company, they are paid the least the company can get away with.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: How much is a living wage? [Re: psyconaught]
#21821329 - 06/17/15 10:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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psyconaught said: a hike in min. wage will only serve to further the gap between supply and demand.
Not true at all. If someone is bringing in $75/hr for his company, as in ballsalsa's example, and they're being paid $8/hr, the company will keep them on for $15/hr, because they're still making a nice profit for the owners. I understand the company has some additional expenses that is part of the $75/hr, but for most companies well below their income, or business owners wouldn't be making record profits, as they are today.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 1 hour, 6 minutes
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Re: How much is a living wage? [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21822062 - 06/18/15 02:14 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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BoldAsLove said: I'm curious, how much do you consider a living wage to be? Not necessarily a number, but what needs should be covered for a wage to be considered a "living wage." Should it cover the needs of more than one individual (significant other, children, etc.), and if so, how many people should it cover? Should it cover only the bare necessities (food, water, shelter) or should it also cover other services? Which ones?
There are many more questions like these that could be applied, but I'm just curious to hear people's opinions. Personally, I don't know how many people it should cover. I think it should be more than one (small family or a couple) but I don't know how many that is. I think it should also allow for upward mobility, for example, by being able to save money to go to trade school or community college. In addition to covering basic necessities, of course.
So, anyways, I'm not looking for a number, but what services should be covered before a wage is a "living wage"?
Once upon a time, men worked, and women stayed home to take care of their family. They paid all of their utilities, and afforded some extras now and again. We don't live in that world anymore, and I'm not one of those people that believes women should stay home.
However, I think people should earn enough money that they can afford to weather the storms that they are likely to find themselves in, at one point or another, without burying themselves in crippling debt. So, I think a livable wage is a wage that does not envelope a person with stress day in and day out. You should be able to go to the doctor when you need to, pay utilities and rent/mortgage, afford a car/car repairs, and have a retirement savings.
I think relative stability in life isn't too much to ask, and I believe the sort of instability that low-wage income earners have in their lives causes undue mental and physical health problems for not only them, but their children. This is often passed on to their grand children, and so forth. I really do believe that the effects of poverty span generations. Often, even when a person breaks out of poverty, the damage remains. The familial dysfunction, etc.
I believe the poverty of a small demographic of society hinders all of us in one way or another.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (06/18/15 02:21 AM)
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