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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Sweat Lodge vs. Steam Bath
    #2172591 - 12/12/03 10:42 AM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Despite the mumbo-jumbo rituals (smudging with sweet grass, chanting, making offerings to the four directions, drumming, etc.), a sweat lodge is nothing more than a dangerous way to induce heat prostration and possibly heat stroke. This causes a temporary disassociative state due to brain overheating. There is nothing spiritual about this. The same thing could be accomplished in a sauna or steam room at your local health club and is not recommended.

OK Mr. Mushrooms and MedicineBag, you can now defend this crazy practice.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: Sweat Lodge vs. Steam Bath [Re: Swami]
    #2172610 - 12/12/03 10:52 AM (13 years, 1 day ago)

I don't know about the spiritual significance of any of this, but I do enjoy a sauna every now and then.

It feels good.


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
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I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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OfflineAlan Stone
Corpus

Registered: 11/23/02
Posts: 986
Loc: Ten feet up
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Sweat Lodge vs. Steam Bath [Re: sirreal]
    #2172624 - 12/12/03 11:04 AM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Well, it does also clean the pores due to profuse sweating...


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Sweat Lodge vs. Steam Bath [Re: Alan Stone]
    #2172755 - 12/12/03 12:32 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

I remember (I was 14 or 15?) the death of a member of "my" church.
He was drunk on New Year's, and he got in his hot tub, the next morning his wife and kids found him floating. Apparently, in his intoxicated state, he didn't realize he was being boiled alive. Yeah, THOSE kids have been fucked up ever since.

I don't know how "spiritual" it is, but I had the original sauna experience in Finland a few years back. Heat up in the sauna (while covering yourself in birch leaves)... jump in the cold-as-fuck ocean... repeat cycle. The experience is even better when the hot female Finn is scantily clad (Book of Swami 1:17).


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: Sweat Lodge vs. Steam Bath [Re: Swami]
    #2172772 - 12/12/03 12:37 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

:lol:

I have nothing to defend.  You on the other hand, well, you know.

:lol:

Stupid wasicu.

Inipi.

Epelo.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Sweat Lodge vs. Steam Bath [Re: Sclorch]
    #2172790 - 12/12/03 12:46 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Yeah, but was he enlightened?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Sweat Lodge vs. Steam Bath [Re: ]
    #2172793 - 12/12/03 12:49 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

You on the other hand, well, you know.

How could I possibly know? I am 7/8ths wasicu (racist bastard!).


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Sweat Lodge vs. Steam Bath [Re: Swami]
    #2172796 - 12/12/03 12:50 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Yeah, but was he enlightened?

Sure.  He floated didn't he?

:lol:


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Anonymous

Re: Sweat Lodge vs. Steam Bath [Re: Swami]
    #2172798 - 12/12/03 12:51 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
You on the other hand, well, you know.

How could I possibly know? I am 7/8ths wasicu (racist bastard!).




Do you always have to tell the truth?  I find that boring as hell.

:lol:


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Invisiblechunder
marker

Registered: 08/11/02
Posts: 965
Loc: The City
Re: Sweat Lodge vs. Steam Bath [Re: Swami]
    #2172852 - 12/12/03 01:27 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

There is nothing spiritual about this.

How do you know? Spirituality is pretty much the most inherently subjective word-idea that exists in the lexicon.

What is considered to be spiritual by one person is spiritual to that person. Its like feeling pleasure. You can't feel others' pleasure, but that doesn't mean you'd be correct in denying that they are feeling it when they say they are (unless you're stabbing them in the eye or something).

If something is spiritual to someone, then its spiritual. Spirituality isn't some condition that has a checklist of required conditions, its a model for labeling experiences.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Sweat Lodge vs. Steam Bath [Re: chunder]
    #2172864 - 12/12/03 01:32 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

If the word is as subjective as you suggest, then how can you question my take on what is essentially a dangerous health condition?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblechunder
marker

Registered: 08/11/02
Posts: 965
Loc: The City
Re: Sweat Lodge vs. Steam Bath [Re: Swami]
    #2172867 - 12/12/03 01:35 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

I'm questioning your narrowing of the meaning of the word, not your take on sweat lodges being dangerous. I'd say plenty of ppl have gotten hella sick or died from sitting in one too long.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Sweat Lodge vs. Steam Bath [Re: chunder]
    #2172888 - 12/12/03 01:49 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

You lost me, bro.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Sweat Lodge vs. Steam Bath [Re: Swami]
    #2172904 - 12/12/03 02:03 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Chunder's point was a good one.

I think he was implying that if you see a red sunrise there's a storm coming.

And yes, many people die or get injured at Inipi ceremonies. That is Tunkasila's way of weeding out the bad people.

Makes sense, doesn't it?


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Invisiblechunder
marker

Registered: 08/11/02
Posts: 965
Loc: The City
Re: Sweat Lodge vs. Steam Bath [Re: Swami]
    #2172911 - 12/12/03 02:06 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Person: "I just had a great sweat lodge session. It was very spiritual."
Swami: "No, it wasn't spiritual. It was just a sweat lodge session."

I'm saying that it isn't very wise to judge someone else's definition of their own experiences. So if they label an excellent dump from the rump as spiritual, thats their right, because the very nature of the concept of spirituality is totally subjective.

I think you have some grounds to talk about the health risks involved with these sweat lodges, but I don't think you have the grounds to state that their is nothing spiritual about the experiences.

Unless you believe that the entire idea of "Spirit" is false. But then, you still wouldn't have (IMHO) the right to deny the validity someone else's experience and the values and worth they associate with that experience.

I suppose though, that bantering about subjectivity is dangerous ground. I'm probably guilty of not recognizing the many meanings of the words that I've just typed. Do you see what I'm trying to get across?


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Sweat Lodge vs. Steam Bath [Re: chunder]
    #2172930 - 12/12/03 02:12 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Swami can speak for himself, but maybe he was saying there is nothing *inherant* in the sweat lodge experience that is spiritual. And I see what you're saying about spirituality being subjective, although I'd disagree with the word "totally". There are some spiritual experiences that are shared.

If Swami was saying there is nothing inherently spiritual about sweat lodges I'd have to agree. Although you have to keep in mind that expectations can make it so for some people.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: Sweat Lodge vs. Steam Bath [Re: Jellric]
    #2173004 - 12/12/03 02:35 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

> If Swami was saying there is nothing inherently spiritual about sweat lodges I'd have to agree.

If this is the case, I would agree as well. I would also extend the concept to drugs, meditation, and even church... there is nothing inherently spiritual about any of these things... any of them may help break down perceptual barriers allow one to see the world through new eyes, but any spirituality comes from within.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Sweat Lodge vs. Steam Bath [Re: chunder]
    #2173026 - 12/12/03 02:44 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

I stand corrected. Heat stroke is very spiritual as is heart attack, brain embolism or a hammer blow to the cranium.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Sweat Lodge vs. Steam Bath [Re: ]
    #2173038 - 12/12/03 02:47 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

And yes, many people die or get injured at Inipi ceremonies. That is Tunkasila's way of weeding out the bad people.

Tunkasila can kiss my wasicu *bleep*. If I spray bullets from my AK47 indiscriminately at the mall, what great spirit is at work there weeding out those that can't handle it?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Sweat Lodge vs. Steam Bath [Re: Swami]
    #2173069 - 12/12/03 03:12 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

> If I spray bullets from my AK47 indiscriminately at the mall, what great spirit is at work there weeding out those that can't handle it?

The spirit of chance, perhaps? Oh wait, I forgot, people have free will... never mind.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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