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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Registered: 05/15/14
Posts: 6,945
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Correlation between HPPD and Anxiety? Very long post.
    #21725399 - 05/26/15 04:02 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I phrased it as a question because I don't believe it is definitive, but I'm almost certain that anxiety can play a role in potential HPPD. I've been monitoring my own situation and after talking to people on here over the course of months believe I came up with a possible reason why some people who don't get HPPD, think they do, myself being one of them. Clearly this isn't going to be true for everyone as some people can get HPPD bad just from one use (though that is rare) but I think a lot of people at some point experience something similar to what I did, at least based off what I've seen people post here in TPE.

After talking with a few people on here in the past, a few of them mentioned they had slight visual disturbances after tripping or even just from smoking weed, days after tripping. Every time they said it was either a bad trip, or they had a panic attack from smoking. This has happened to me on a few occasions after tripping, usually very slight and nothing that would impede my life.

My second to last trip, I took them on a saturday, woke up sunday, didn't have any visual disturbances at all, that night I only got around 3 hours of sleep and smoked weed very late so I woke up extremely groggy, this is when I started to panic. While driving, the lines on the road would be shifting left and right, back and forth, all over the place, to the point I couldn't tell if I was even driving straight which on a highway became very nerve racking.

From that point on, I couldn't help but try to notice visual disturbances, not because I wanted to, but because I was afraid it would be permanent, which IMO ended up making me get slight HPPD solely because I was unintentionally trying to notice it because of my anxiety that it would be permanent. Because of this I noticed visual snow, started seeing things out of my peripherals and attributing them to HPPD. Over the course of a few weeks, it dwindled to almost 0 visual disturbances except for a little visual snow at night time, and walls and carpets and things of that nature would appear to be moving if I stared and tried to notice them.

Then I started getting anxiety really bad for other reasons in my life, but because of weeks of unintentionally trying to notice things moving, I'd think I saw something out of the corner of my eye, which would send me into a mental loop of " I can never trip anymore, it's definitely permanent, of course this would happen to me" and would continue the cycle of me thinking I saw something out of the corner of my eye, and contributing it to HPPD.

So why or how can I try to say it is because of anxiety, how do I know visual disturbances wasn't CAUSING my anxiety and not the other way around. Well after months of not being able to get HPPD out of my mind because of the fear of not being able to trip anymore, I noticed that I only noticed it, when I was thinking about it. I would be driving and as long as it wasn't on my mind, never saw a thing, BUT while driving I'd try to look out of my peripherals and see if the lines on the road would still move, and they would, but only because I was trying to notice them again.

I felt for weeks it could of been me just overthinking it but my friends wanted to trip and me being nervous about it wouldn't let me get it off my mind, because I would constantly think ," If I trip again, it's just going to get worse". Especially when I was unintentionally trying to see visual disturbances and if I did, would make me not want to trip.

Well this weekend that just passed, me and a buddy took an 1/8th of shrooms, the come-up was by far THE WORST thing I've probably ever experienced in life, I still don't know what was happening, but it wasn't your typical nausea, it felt like every cell in my body turned on me, like I was dieing, but finally that passed and we had a blast, but the comedown is where things got weird. I've never felt so content in my life then I did during this comedown, it was like all my fear and anxiety, all the uneasiness in my life was washed away and I was just left with a feeling of peace.

Starting the next day, my vision has literally, never been better in my life, all visual snow is gone, even at night, I can try my hardest to see visual disturbances and they are all fully gone, which is the opposite of what I expected. So what is different? My anxiety isn't there anymore, maybe my anxiety will come back, maybe it won't, but the difference is, now I know that any "HPPD" I thought I had, was stemming from my anxiety about having it. So why bother telling everyone this? It probably won't help many people, but I've seen soo many post about people asking questions like.....

"If I try I can get things to move, like if I'm staring at something"
"I still get floaters and I get tracers"
"I think I have visual snow"

Regardless of what specific visuals they see or how it is phrased, almost always ends in "will it go away?"

So my whole point behind this post is, to the people like me who have to ask themselves whether they have HPPD, you most likely don't, I've also talked to a few people on here who DO have bad HPPD, and after enough talks with them it seems to hold true that if you have HPPD, you won't have to ask about it. If it is something that seems slight or if you find yourself wondering whether you're getting visual disturbances, there is a very good possibility that you worrying about it can keep it happening, which seemed to be what was going on with me.

There were definitely points where I DEFINITELY saw shit moving that shouldn't of been moving, but every single time I was almost trying to notice it, and very rarely was it out of the blue and impeding my everyday.

Basically just wanted to share in hopes that if one or a few people who were having similar concerns read it, they might be able to put their mind at ease knowing that it could just be your own mind fucking with you, or knowing that it will go away, and that if you have to ask yourself if you have it, you probably don't, seem like it would be something very noticeable based on what people who DO have it have said to me.  I personally think that the world will forever look different to those who embark on the psychedelic journey, it's more of a "once you see it, you can't unsee it" type of things.

I've also talked to quite a few people who had or thought they had visual disturbances like I did, and almost all of them said it went away fully within 2-8 weeks, and didn't happen after every trip, usually after bad ones, and there were others, who came to the same conclusion as me. They were nervous they were having lasting visual symptoms, but noticed it went away after they forgot about it.

So for the conclusion of this post, or the TL:DR if you see this massive amount of text and scrolled down, is that if you have to ask yourself if you have HPPD, you almost definitely don't. Being nervous or having anxiety about visual disturbances, ATLEAST IN MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, can cause visual disturbances, especially if you're trying to notice them. And if you DO have concerns about lasting symptoms, space out your trips, for everyone who I've talked to who claimed to slightly have lasting symptoms, all said it went away within 2-8 weeks and didn't happen after every trip.

And the only other piece of advice I can say, stems from a post that was on here within just the past few weeks, someone came on and noticed visual snow, and very VERY slight visuals if they tried, and was worried it would be permanent, which can be very scary to think anything would be permanent, but if you're afraid it WILL be permanent, ask yourself the following questions. Is it impeding your life? Are there things you can't do now that you could before you had it? Does it stop you from engaging in things you would normally engage in? If the answer is no, why be concerned if it is permanent? The reason I said this was because I was having bad anxiety about my case, when realistically it wasn't making my life any different, the very worst case scenario would of been that I would of had to stop tripping for a while.

Whelp, I doubt many people will read all this, but hopefully it will ease the minds of a few who have had similar concerns as me, I'd also just add, it kind of goes against what I've said this whole post, but if you are THAT nervous about it, like I was, then monitoring your own situation can also help put your mind at ease, if you are definitively getting lasting visuals, does it get better with every week that passes? the answer will almost always be yes for the majority of people who get any lasting symptoms, in which case, you shouldn't worry, because it will clearly go away with time.

Education is key my friends, some drugs have more negatives then positives, some are more prone to certain symptoms then others, and some have soo much research behind them it would almost be dumb not to educate yourself on it. For those of you newbies who made it this far, Erowid.org is a very good drug education site, educate yourselves, and never go into anything without fully knowing the risks (and benefits:thumbup:) of what you're getting yourself into, and last but not least, remember to have fun AND BE SAFE ABOUT IT!!!!!

P.S. Further drug use can also make it worse if you DO get symptoms, my secnod to last trip I talked about at the top made me quit my daily weed habit that I've had for years, because everytime I smoked my anxiety would go through the roof, plus weed definitely made me have slight visuals, whether it was from weed, or the anxiety, I'll never know, but it was a habit I've been wanting to kick anyway so worked out for the best I guess haha.


Edited by SirShroomsAlott (05/26/15 04:08 PM)


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InvisibleJean-guy Masta
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Registered: 09/23/14
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Re: Correlation between HPPD and Anxiety? Very long post. [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21725576 - 05/26/15 04:57 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Well wrote man

anxiety about your mental health can really drive you nuts ,felt like this for a while after a bad trip , I think it has maybe something to do with PTSD , the bad trip it self can be a traumatic experience so I belive that PTSD with a lot of anxiety towards your mental health can definitely make you think you have HPPD from a trip .


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InvisibleGottaloveacid
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Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 3,421
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: Correlation between HPPD and Anxiety? Very long post. [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21726972 - 05/26/15 11:08 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I just skimmed your post, but I would like to add my own experience.

I do not see a correlation with HPPD and anxiety. I do however see a correlation between flashbacks and anxiety. I separate both because there is a difference. HPPD is quite passive, and that is coming from someone with BAD HPPD like myself. You accept you cannot control it, and it really doesn't control you. Flashbacks on the other hand, they can come in at terrible times and can be overwhelming and uncomfortable. I feel anxiety plays a role here.


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:mushroom2::mushroom2: The greatest story ever told is the story that never ends!:mushroom2::mushroom2:

wubba lubba dub dubstep :gimmebass:


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OfflinePerceptive
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Registered: 04/21/15
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Re: Correlation between HPPD and Anxiety? Very long post. [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21907567 - 07/06/15 10:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

i think that this coorelation may be true. I hope that it is true. because I think i have the same kind of HPPD as you, the "PTSD" kind theory that you made.


I actually made the same coorelation earlier. and happened to stumble across this. I wish/hope that this is a groundbreaking breakthru for people with this "PTSD HPPD".

and people on HPPD online seem to be very mentally ill because of their HPPD.

and people on this website seem to have a different mindset about it. like people seem to be grateful for it.


I also had pretty much the same exact experience getting HPPD as you described. thinking that im never gonna come down. on the bad trip, i thought i would be perma tripping and its 8 months later and i still have symptoms.
bad trip etc.. like the day after, i was kinda still on the trip. then it subsided to static when i smoked weed a few days later.

So hopefully ur right.


I am going to work on meditating everyday to get over the "PTSD" that you overcame using shrooms.


this could seriously be a huge breakthru. since obviously the medical system doesnt care about HPPD, we have to be the scientists.


thanks for the post.


I will go with the attitude u said. "it doesnt negatively affect my life so dont fear"


I will work on not looking for my symptoms. because i agree, when im not thinking about them, i dont think i see them.



Another remarkable observation: I did a xanax bar a couple weeks ago and totally didnt even notice the "HPPD" symptoms. thus, it could definitly be anxiety !!!!!!!!


"if you fear something, youre scared to let it go" - me



Im scared to try a shroom trip incase ur theory is not true.

So I will (try) stop looking for symptoms, fearing, right NOW. lol. and meditate on it for hours and hours.

and ill stop looking for HPPD symptoms. thanks alot dude!@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


u may have helped save me from alot of suffering, and if its true, many more PTSD sufferers!! hell yeah.


But if worse comes to worst, i might try a shroom trip. or a mdma therapy session. (its a "magic bullet" for PTSD) plus safer than shrooms cuz incase of bad trip.


im glad that ur better again and able to trip! im hoping the same for me, and alot of others.


this also shows how limited us humans are, freaking out over nothing lol


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InvisibleGottaloveacid
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Registered: 10/20/14
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Re: Correlation between HPPD and Anxiety? Very long post. [Re: Perceptive]
    #21910164 - 07/07/15 03:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Xanax works by activating GABA receptors, which are inhibitory. They can suppress neurological function significantly, which is most likely why HPPD is drastically reduced when on it. Think of hppd as a neurological function (which it really is). Whatever pathways are the root cause of creating the visuals are basically being slowed down or stopped while on xanax.


--------------------
   
:mushroom2::mushroom2: The greatest story ever told is the story that never ends!:mushroom2::mushroom2:

wubba lubba dub dubstep :gimmebass:


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
Howdy
I'm a teapot


Registered: 05/15/14
Posts: 6,945
Loc: United States Flag
Re: Correlation between HPPD and Anxiety? Very long post. [Re: Perceptive]
    #21910318 - 07/07/15 03:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I'm glad it gave you some comfort of mind. I would absolutely not suggest trying psychedelics to cure hppd or any variation of it. It did actually work for me but that is no guarantee it will work for anyone else, unless you're at a dead end, and it's the only option, and even then I'd say proceed with caution or a much lower dose then usual.

Ever since I stopped researching/looking for it/and having anxiety about having it, it did fully go away, and have tripped a few times on lsd and shrooms with nothing reoccuring since I had those symptoms and since they went away.

Gottaloveacid above me had true HPPD, where I luckily had a minor version of it, like static, lines on the road appearing to shift or bend in directions they shouldn't be, tracers and sliding. But almost all of them seemed to be whenever I was paying attention to them.

It took me a few months to wrap my mind over the fact that I was paranoid about it when it actually wasn't affecting my life in any other way then me consistently worrying over it. I could still function, do everything I always did, but just noticed my vision was different or altered and afraid it was permanent.

Some HPPD can be a very serious matter and not to be taken lightly, but for the majority of individuals I see talk about it and describe it on this website., I think it's more of an anxiety/mental awareness that causes it because they explain very slight symptoms that I myself was experiencing for a period of months that ended up going away after I came to terms with it and made an effort to stop thinking about it ever, and then a shroom trip luckily pushed me over the edge and reminded me how it isn't that bad.

In some ways, or at least in most people that notice visual phenomenon, I would say it might even be normal, and seeing your entire field of vision alter during a trip might just keep you more aware of your visual field then you normally would be if you hadn't ever tripped even after you come out of it. It might of always been there, and we never noticed. People unintentionally making a mountain out of a mole hill I guess you could say over something that might even be normal, but people who have only experienced "normal" have nothing to compare it to.

Granted I still notice differences in my vision from what I remember they used to be, but in all honesty the ones I notice now, are more positive.


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Invisiblewhitelights
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Re: Correlation between HPPD and Anxiety? Very long post. [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21911295 - 07/07/15 07:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Ive noticed any weird feelings after s bad/hard/ uncomfortable trip can definitely be cured by another trip.


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its that bitter-sweet-sour, electric-smooth-twang. everything you ever have, are. or will feel along with every emotion, joy, hate, love, fear or aspiration burning down your nerves and into the fabric of your place in this existence at ten thousand degrees above and below zero will you find yourself wondering if you've been dead or alive this whole time. being born over and over only to die over and over hoping the wheel stops in the same place it started when you spun it, and when it finally does and you can step back and take a nice deep breath you realize how beautiful life is, remember, wake up to the most beautiful day of your life every single day, its just the way.


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OfflineLiquidVisions
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Re: Correlation between HPPD and Anxiety? Very long post. [Re: whitelights]
    #21911955 - 07/07/15 09:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I myself have extreme Hppd. Sometimes I see complex patterns form on objects in front of me. It's not a strong as an actual trip but nonetheless I'm always tripping. It actually brings me joy most of the time. I feel like I built a connection with the universe, and I even think that shamans believed that its possible to build that connection over time. I  used to get anxiety from it and freak out when it got really bad but now I feel like its a gift. I thought about it, visible light is nothing but rainbows and the fact that I have colorful tracers is me experiencing the excess light, the fact that I see patterns allows me to always see the beauty in the construction of the planet in which we live on. HPPD for the win.


--------------------
Step 1: Stare at this for 30 seconds

Step 2: Look at this after following step one

Step 3: Enjoy the mini trip :trippinbawelz:


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InvisibleGottaloveacid
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Re: Correlation between HPPD and Anxiety? Very long post. [Re: LiquidVisions]
    #21912021 - 07/07/15 09:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I guess I should add to this thread that I also had my HPPD cured by a single amazing trip. This leads me to believe that HPPD is definitely some form of PTSD. Anxiety feels too much in your face and constantly bugs you but PTSD is much more haunting.


Also another crazy idea... Your brain is basically always remembering things. When bad, good, crazy, joyous, etc events happen to a human, they tend to remember those experiences MUCH more often than regular memories (by an insane amount).

A bad trip is basically just a bad experience that has a high chance of permanently going into your memory. Since we don't know how psychedelics work exactly, those memories could be playing a massive role in cognition (which includes senses, ie sight in this case)

On the contrary, a good trip is being remembered just as much as that bad one, yet it is a joyous feeling. Your memories (and possibly cognition post trip) are positive, rather than haunting or terrifying like a bad trip. Hence why people feel an afterglow on psychedelics more so than ANY other drug, because they tend to be the most memorable experiences a drug can deliver.

Sorry just some stoned ideas I came up with




TLDR: Psychedelics are just a human experience, like sex, love, death, joy, hatred, etc. Bad experiences can give people PTSD (obvious). Good experiences can leave people feeling great, afterglow of sorts.

Only this is with psychedelics, a drug going into your brain rather than a response to actual stimuli. No one knows exactly how they act in our brain, but when those memorable moments occur, it could very well be the psychedelics are "corrupting" the memory, causing things like hppd


--------------------
   
:mushroom2::mushroom2: The greatest story ever told is the story that never ends!:mushroom2::mushroom2:

wubba lubba dub dubstep :gimmebass:


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OfflinePerceptive
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Registered: 04/21/15
Posts: 89
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
Re: Correlation between HPPD and Anxiety? Very long post. [Re: Gottaloveacid]
    #21912071 - 07/07/15 09:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

lmfao, they sounded like stoned ideas :P

So if escaping this suffering/anxiety/HPPD is as purchasing an eighth and eating them in the right set/setting, thats like total instant gratification...


lol... part of me wants to do mushrooms, but the remaining 95% of me wants to just meditate thru the anxiety and play it safe.


bleh this is annoying lol, thanks for saying that.


Some people get HPPD from "good" trips, so I kinda think theres 2 kind of "HPPD"s.

-PTSD-H, i will call it.

-and then, real HPPD. like an acid trip lol.


idk


but fuc


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