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Drumdude27
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How amphetamine helps with ADD
#21722173 - 05/25/15 07:18 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Would someone mind explaining this to me, or linking me to a good article about it? I'm having a hard time finding any. I understand it has to do with neurotransmitters, mainly dopamine, but I would like to have a better understanding as to why, and what the brain chemistry of an ADD sufferer is like to begin with.
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Random acts of Shroomery kindness Drumdude27 said: Don't make me get the FemNazis involved guys. 420th post. No regrets. Only joy.
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luvdemboomers
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Drumdude27]
#21722221 - 05/25/15 07:30 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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People with ADHD have naturally lower levels of dopamine. I think meds bring the dopamine to a normal level.
That's my understanding of it anyways
Edited by luvdemboomers (05/25/15 07:30 PM)
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Konyap

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Was your mom a smoker? Has your dad ever used drugs before you were conceived? Were you given pills to calm you down in school when you were younger?
THEN YOU HAVE A.D.D!
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Mescalean
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Konyap] 1
#21722432 - 05/25/15 08:25 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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While it is seriously over prescribed, I too would love to know what the chemical imbalance is for A.D.D. and A.D.H.D. Two different ones many people mingle together. I'm sure since hyperactivity is a symptom of one then it would have to be a different type of imbalance right?
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zZZz
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Drumdude27]
#21722437 - 05/25/15 08:26 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Only helps as long as u keep taking them. But once ur off them the add or wutever comes back , with a vengeance!
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Adolin




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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Mescalean] 1
#21722449 - 05/25/15 08:29 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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they help you wether you have ADD or not, it doesnt matter
ADD and its subtypes are just a label for a group of certain behaviors, they more than likely have all types of different physiological/psychological causes.
dopamine could be a big part of it for most ADD people, but wether or not you have a legitimate attention problem you will focus better on amphetamine
Edited by Adolin (05/25/15 08:29 PM)
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Mescalean
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Adolin]
#21722453 - 05/25/15 08:30 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gresh said: they help you wether you have ADD or not, it doesnt matter
ADD and its subtypes are just a label for a group of certain behaviors, they more than likely have all types of different physiological/psychological causes.
dopamine could be a big part of it for most ADD people, but wether or not you have a legitimate attention problem you will focus better on amphetamine
Quote:
Gresh said: they help you wether you have ADD or not, it doesnt matter
ADD and its subtypes are just a label for a group of certain behaviors, they more than likely have all types of different physiological/psychological causes.
dopamine could be a big part of it for most ADD people, but wether or not you have a legitimate attention problem you will focus better on amphetamine
Ime I like weed better. Makes it easier to focus for me especially on more detail oriented shit. amphetamines makes me nauseas as fuck and sweat like a dirty animal
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luvdemboomers
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Adolin]
#21722462 - 05/25/15 08:32 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gresh said: they help you wether you have ADD or not, it doesnt matter
ADD and its subtypes are just a label for a group of certain behaviors, they more than likely have all types of different physiological/psychological causes.
dopamine could be a big part of it for most ADD people, but wether or not you have a legitimate attention problem you will focus better on amphetamine
agreed
thing is people that have moderate to severe adhd/add often have trouble being functional and medication is needed
I've got it myself and am not on meds... as I've got older I can cope better. It's def over prescribed but some people really do need it.
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Konyap

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I would say like 94% over prescribed it's not even a thing in france
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Drumdude27
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Mescalean]
#21722468 - 05/25/15 08:33 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mescalean said: While it is seriously over prescribed, I too would love to know what the chemical imbalance is for A.D.D. and A.D.H.D. Two different ones many people mingle together. I'm sure since hyperactivity is a symptom of one then it would have to be a different type of imbalance right?
No doubt that it's over prescribed.
http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/11/02/chemical-imbalance-is-probably-not-behind-adhd/61512.html
This doesn't say much, but the conclusion made me  Quote: "Study leader Barbara Sahakian, Ph.D., said the findings are significant because they show Ritalin improves attention and concentration regardless of whether people have ADHD or not."
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Random acts of Shroomery kindness Drumdude27 said: Don't make me get the FemNazis involved guys. 420th post. No regrets. Only joy.
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Adolin




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yeah, it might not make everyone focus better, but in general they will
I was also diagnosed at a young age with inattentive subtype ADD. i was on concerta from 5-10th grade, eventually stopped because it wasnt doing anything anymore
i never went above 18mg concerta though, which is a really small dose
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Konyap

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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Drumdude27]
#21722480 - 05/25/15 08:34 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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heil hitler!
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Mescalean
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Drumdude27]
#21722493 - 05/25/15 08:37 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemboomers said:
Quote:
Gresh said: they help you wether you have ADD or not, it doesnt matter
ADD and its subtypes are just a label for a group of certain behaviors, they more than likely have all types of different physiological/psychological causes.
dopamine could be a big part of it for most ADD people, but wether or not you have a legitimate attention problem you will focus better on amphetamine
agreed
thing is people that have moderate to severe adhd/add often have trouble being functional and medication is needed
I've got it myself and am not on meds... as I've got older I can cope better. It's def over prescribed but some people really do need it.
Quote:
Drumdude27 said:
Quote:
Mescalean said: While it is seriously over prescribed, I too would love to know what the chemical imbalance is for A.D.D. and A.D.H.D. Two different ones many people mingle together. I'm sure since hyperactivity is a symptom of one then it would have to be a different type of imbalance right?
No doubt that it's over prescribed.
http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/11/02/chemical-imbalance-is-probably-not-behind-adhd/61512.html
This doesn't say much, but the conclusion made me  Quote: "Study leader Barbara Sahakian, Ph.D., said the findings are significant because they show Ritalin improves attention and concentration regardless of whether people have ADHD or not." 
Oh the smart ass in me wants to follow this just to prove a past family psychologist she is full of shit.
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Drumdude27
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Mescalean]
#21722499 - 05/25/15 08:39 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Do it bruh
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Random acts of Shroomery kindness Drumdude27 said: Don't make me get the FemNazis involved guys. 420th post. No regrets. Only joy.
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Malcolm_Xtasy
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Drumdude27] 1
#21722500 - 05/25/15 08:39 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Drumdude27 said: Would someone mind explaining this to me, or linking me to a good article about it? I'm having a hard time finding any. I understand it has to do with neurotransmitters, mainly dopamine, but I would like to have a better understanding as to why, and what the brain chemistry of an ADD sufferer is like to begin with.
My understanding is that the increased dopamine levels aid the user in finding boring, everyday activities more enjoyable. I know for me, when im speeding on vyvanse or other amphetamines, I can do math problems all fucking day. sober, not so much. When im speeding I find appreciation for formulas and the systematic way math works and explains so many things we take for granted in everyday life. It also stimulates the reward pathway which probably also has a lot to do with satisfactory behavior
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: luvdemboomers] 1
#21722504 - 05/25/15 08:40 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemboomers said: People with ADHD have naturally lower levels of dopamine. I think meds bring the dopamine to a normal level.
That's my understanding of it anyways
That's pretty spot on.
A more cognitive-behavioral explanation would be that people with ADHD have under-active reward sensations, i.e. the types of activities that satisfy non-ADHD people enough for them to avoid distractions naturally, are not so satisfying with ADHD people. Cranking up the reward sensation by blunt force, through the release of dopamine, helps ADHD people get less distracted in their daily lives.
I have seen somebody in this thread saying that amphetamines help anybody, that is not exactly true. Amphetamines have a "rewarding" effect for anybody who takes them, but for somebody who experiences adequate reward sensations from the activities they are interested in to avoid pointless distractions, they are useless at best and potentially a gateway to drug abuse and addiction.
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Psychonautica
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Amphetamines make you better at everything.
Except eating, and sleeping.
-------------------- The chances of you even being born, Were forty million to one. There's two parts of the statistic And I want you to live through one 3/8/95 - 7/10/15 Rest In Paradise, Brother. Sheekle said: yeah, i said i was afraid of psychonautica

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Sophistic Radiance
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Quote:
Psychonautica said: Amphetamines make you better at everything.
Except eating, and sleeping.
Not true. If you are under-rested or under-nourished, or under motivated for some other reason, they make you seem better at everything by making you less distracted by, for example, the need for food, sleep, or love and attention. This is why amphetamines are often useful in the short-term for military scenarios.
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Drumdude27
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Quote:
BlindSophist said:
Quote:
Psychonautica said: Amphetamines make you better at everything.
Except eating, and sleeping.
Not true. If you are under-rested or under-nourished, or under motivated for some other reason, they make you seem better at everything by making you less distracted by, for example, the need for food, sleep, or love and attention.
The individual and the dosage would determine which one of you is right.
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Mescalean
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Quote:
BlindSophist said:
Quote:
Psychonautica said: Amphetamines make you better at everything.
Except eating, and sleeping.
Not true. If you are under-rested or under-nourished, or under motivated for some other reason, they make you seem better at everything by making you less distracted by, for example, the need for food, sleep, or love and attention. This is why amphetamines are often useful in the short-term for military scenarios.
eh they completely killed my appetite as a child /:
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Drumdude27]
#21722561 - 05/25/15 08:52 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think set and setting should be taken into consideration as well.
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Mescalean
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and maybe the fact that people have different learning styles. I can't pay attention to shit if its spoken word, but if I can work up the attention span to read yes, if its a physical activity or lesson I have that shit down pronto
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Mescalean] 2
#21722594 - 05/25/15 08:58 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I agree that what we call "ADHD" is mostly a societal problem, i.e. many genuinely intelligent and driven young people are not served by the cookie cutter methods of our education system without some form of remediation. ADHD diagnoses are the popular remediation in the U.S. because our anemic public-services funding makes our education system inflexible and impersonal. The diagnosis of ADHD puts the burden of dealing with these societal problems on the individual and their support network, and amphetamine is the cheapest and simplest form of remediation available to people who cannot afford specialized therapy or high-quality education tailored to their specific needs.
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fapjack
Title



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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Drumdude27]
#21722607 - 05/25/15 09:02 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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They make it more rewarding to do shit you don't want to do. ADHD/ADD doesn't make it hard to concentrate, it makes it hard to concentrate on things you don't want to concentrate on. Watch anyone that is ADD/ADHD play video games or watch TV and try to distract them. It isn't easy. Its a bullshit diagnosis like most things psychologists do, especially considering brain scans are almost never performed as part of the diagnosis. Giving kids amphetamines to solve their problems is a great example to set early on....
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Drumdude27
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Quote:
BlindSophist said: I think set and setting should be taken into consideration as well.
Always.
This thread started out meh but the answers keep getting better. I'm tempted to give out +1s like Oprah
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Psychonautica
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Quote:
BlindSophist said:
Quote:
Psychonautica said: Amphetamines make you better at everything.
Except eating, and sleeping.
Not true. If you are under-rested or under-nourished, or under motivated for some other reason, they make you seem better at everything by making you less distracted by, for example, the need for food, sleep, or love and attention. This is why amphetamines are often useful in the short-term for military scenarios.
What do you mean? Amphs DO make you better at everything, save for sitting still, not chewing a hole in your cheek, or sleeping, and eating, other than those you'll preform better high on meth at basically everything..
If you're saying after 3 days of being awake meth won't help you preform better, which is what it sounds like you're saying,I'd say you're still wrong personally.
Being awake for three days sober, you'd probably preform worse than being awake for three days with stims.
-------------------- The chances of you even being born, Were forty million to one. There's two parts of the statistic And I want you to live through one 3/8/95 - 7/10/15 Rest In Paradise, Brother. Sheekle said: yeah, i said i was afraid of psychonautica

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Sophistic Radiance
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I think you misunderstood. I was saying that amphetamines improve performance at a given, specific task where the user would otherwise be more concerned with obtaining rest, nourishment, or love and attention than with fulfilling that task. I would say the ADHD diagnosis could also be described as a deficit of attention on the part of the society, not the individual.
"Acting out" is one of the key elements of the ADHD diagnosis in children. Children act out to get attention. ADHD children act out to get attention because they are not getting enough of it. Give them speed and they stop acting out because they'll be more likely to fixate themselves with any given task than with satisfying their basic need for attention.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Sophistic Radiance (05/25/15 09:23 PM)
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Lucis
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Drumdude27]
#21722726 - 05/25/15 09:27 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I have problems with adhd, like I seriously have it. I had issues in school, and now with my job. Sometimes I get so frustrated, everything I am looking at all rolls into one, I get confused and then start to have anxiety attacks, actually had a really gnarly anxiety attack the other day at work from my adhd.
Funny thing is if I listen to the grateful dead while doing my job, I am usually fine because it mellows me out, I tried listening to some EDM at work and it sped my brain up so much that I got outta synch with what I was doing. I work with numbers a lot, which sucks because numbers are a weak point for me, I blow hard at math.
But I had symptoms as a young sprat, got tested and found out I had adhd, had to go to testing for it once a week for a month, so it was a legit test not just some doc saying "oh you like to move your feet, here eat this pill and chill"
Stimulants mellow me out big time.
Anyway, sorry OP I know this doesn't answer your question, but I just felt like sharing that.
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Malcolm_Xtasy
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Lucis]
#21722736 - 05/25/15 09:29 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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It sounds like you have anxiety, not ADHD. Sorry to break it to ya.
Also
Quote:
I tried listening to some EDM at work and it sped my brain up so much that I got outta synch with what I was doing
This was your first mistake. You're lucky you didn't have an aneurism
Edited by Malcolm_Xtasy (05/25/15 09:32 PM)
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Lucis
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Yeah I am a bit shot out, think I would be OK if I went back to smoking cigs, but I wont let that happen, my anxiety went through the roof when I quit almost a year ago.
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moonrockmushy
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Lucis]
#21722773 - 05/25/15 09:37 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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What I always thought was pretty crazy, is that at my teacher's request I was tested for this shit, basically I only did work in school and never at home, and they had a problem with that even though I would generally pass all my tests, and get things done sooner or later, just on their time not mine.
So they tested me, and there conclusion was that I don't have ADD, I am just easily distracted. It always puzzled me, overall I am glad because I was/am nervous enough without taking speed everyday, but how is that not ADD.
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Drumdude27
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Not conforming to a poorly made system well does not mean you have ADD or ADHD. Doing things your way on your schedule is simply normal in my mind.
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Mescalean
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said: What I always thought was pretty crazy, is that at my teacher's request I was tested for this shit, basically I only did work in school and never at home, and they had a problem with that even though I would generally pass all my tests, and get things done sooner or later, just on their time not mine.
So they tested me, and there conclusion was that I don't have ADD, I am just easily distracted. It always puzzled me, overall I am glad because I was/am nervous enough without taking speed everyday, but how is that not ADD.
so you decided homework was bullshit too huh? they didnt like it when i did that either.
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Drumdude27]
#21722813 - 05/25/15 09:47 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Drumdude27 said: Not conforming to a poorly made system well does not mean you have ADD or ADHD. Doing things your way on your schedule is simply normal in my mind.
It is normal, but when your living situation does not accommodate that, you have ADHD.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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Drumdude27
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Could you elaborate? It could also mean that your living situation just doesn't accommodate you, in which case changes can always be made.
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ModestMouse
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Konyap]
#21722987 - 05/25/15 10:47 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Illyabo said: heil hitler!
Yup. Nazi Germany was prescribing amphetamines to it's soldiers during WW2, now we're doing it for kids who annoy their parents.
ADD is bullshit. It's not a disease, it's a behavioral quirk that doesn't mesh well with society's cookie cutter assembly line.
Getting prescribed amphetamine as a kid is a death sentence for the creative mind.
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akira_akuma
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: ModestMouse]
#21723239 - 05/26/15 12:17 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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but if they find medication helpful then how is it "bullshit" pubberinos?
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Konyap

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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: akira_akuma]
#21723303 - 05/26/15 01:09 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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because if someone with a human side and a doctorate says it's a made up disease...
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Bitter Cactus
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Konyap]
#21723313 - 05/26/15 01:16 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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i have an add script everyone should have one no reason not to it improves your quality of life
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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akira_akuma
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Konyap]
#21723489 - 05/26/15 03:30 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Illyabo said: because if someone with a human side and a doctorate says it's a made up disease...
whatever that person's reason is in saying it's "not a disease", has nothing to do with reality. it's ambiguous bullshit itself. it's NEVER BEEN A DISEASE.
it's not a disease, it's a disorder. it's something that people feel they are effected by, within certain criteria that can be assessed by a psychiatrist; so waht those people do is go to get help, and they have the criteria because of ACTUAL CASES, DAY IN DAY OUT, that people bring to the doctors THEMSELVES; the doctors don't just think it all up, they assess what people come to them for, and thus you have the DSM. because of recorded patient data, that PEOPLE GO TO THE DOCTOR FOR to find help.
there is your ACTUAL scenario.
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Konyap

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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: akira_akuma]
#21729567 - 05/27/15 05:16 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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If I go look around I'll see websites suggesting I have ADD they're doing that to sell drugs it isn't like a broken bone so why does it matter if I have it or not?
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Bitter Cactus
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Konyap]
#21729676 - 05/27/15 05:48 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ya man you can fake ADD and get a script. That's pretty much what I did and life is so much better but who knows maybe I have add.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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Murzelpfrumpft
pet donkey in a lucid dream

Registered: 08/09/12
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Wrong wrong and wrong again. ADD is not a biological illness. It was NEVER shown to be connected to dopamine levels at all. Those who claim that help spreading the lies of big pharma. It's not a disease
It is a behavior. And there's a society which doesn't like this behavior because it's not productive in a capitalistic sense.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
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Quote:
Illyabo said: If I go look around I'll see websites suggesting I have ADD they're doing that to sell drugs it isn't like a broken bone so why does it matter if I have it or not?
just because unscrupulous marketing and garbage is being thrown into the mix, doesn't effect the facts.
Quote:
Murzelpfrumpft said: Wrong wrong and wrong again. ADD is not a biological illness. It was NEVER shown to be connected to dopamine levels at all. Those who claim that help spreading the lies of big pharma. It's not a disease
It is a behavior. And there's a society which doesn't like this behavior because it's not productive in a capitalistic sense.
it is a behavior, and can be seen as a very damaging one in this very capitalistic world.
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fapjack
Title



Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 16,574
Loc: Central New Jersey
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Most mental illnesses are bullshit. Not to say people don't have neurological conditions, but psychologists aren't biologists. They shouldn't be diagnosing anything either way. Psychiatrists are even worse. Neuropharmacologists are a much better option.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: fapjack]
#21730090 - 05/27/15 07:52 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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there are lot of neurological conditions that simply aren't understood yet, or that might not have biological diagnoses.
you want help, you can get help. that's the point. the point isn't to ignore possible help for things you might be able to use help for, in order to say the common drivel you hear about "that's not real, see i didn't go to doctor!"
good for you.
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Everything
(~} ;-}



Registered: 06/26/10
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: akira_akuma]
#21730115 - 05/27/15 07:57 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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there is scientific studies showing people with ADD/ADHD do not have lower or imbalanced levels of dopamine. They used to think it was a malfunction of dopamine release and that people with add/adhd did not release dopamine at proper times but that is some bullshit.
They found people with add/adhd have lower levels of grey matter or something in the brain though
The people saying amphetamines help everyone are correct. its makes boring stuff more interesting and rewarding to work on.
Edited by Everything (05/27/15 07:58 PM)
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fapjack
Title



Registered: 07/26/07
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Loc: Central New Jersey
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: akira_akuma]
#21730135 - 05/27/15 08:03 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'd rather see a doctor with a much more thorough understanding of the human nervous system than someone that spent most of their residency learning about human behaviour. Going to see a priest might help with your mental issues as well, I still wouldn't advise people to do it. Some people certainly need to see someone, I just think they should see someone that studies the brain rather than someone that studies the mind.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: fapjack]
#21730140 - 05/27/15 08:04 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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and where is the doctor that'll help more? point it out.
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fapjack
Title



Registered: 07/26/07
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: akira_akuma]
#21730235 - 05/27/15 08:32 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Neuropharmacologist or a neurologist. Even then it won't really matter though, mental disorders aren't diagnosed with PET scans. A lot of psych meds are extremely limited in their usefulness, and work better at making people manageable than actually helping them.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: fapjack]
#21730283 - 05/27/15 08:48 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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you say making people manageable... thousands of patients say "making life manageable". you do not need "proof" to know when you have trouble concentrating. your point here is moot.
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R0B0G3N3S1S
Quantum Mechanic

Registered: 04/08/15
Posts: 330
Loc: Noosphere
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: akira_akuma]
#21730403 - 05/27/15 09:27 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I have lyme disease. The more it spreads, the more people will get misdiagnosed with add. Then we can all class action lawsuit and rule the fucking world with 65 billion a piece.
-------------------- One should of, but shouldn't of had to. Because One Shouldn't of, but had to. Pm me If you are trying to discuss that one thing that everybody knows but is so hard to put into words.
Edited by R0B0G3N3S1S (05/27/15 09:29 PM)
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R0B0G3N3S1S
Quantum Mechanic

Registered: 04/08/15
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: R0B0G3N3S1S]
#21730458 - 05/27/15 09:45 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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The adhd is your body/mind seeking information to learn from. The stimulants help your brain make well used routes while removing other "useless" connections. Essentially turning your brain into an underdeveloped adolt brain.
-------------------- One should of, but shouldn't of had to. Because One Shouldn't of, but had to. Pm me If you are trying to discuss that one thing that everybody knows but is so hard to put into words.
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Everything
(~} ;-}



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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: R0B0G3N3S1S]
#21730687 - 05/27/15 11:16 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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what??? where did you get that from?
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R0B0G3N3S1S
Quantum Mechanic

Registered: 04/08/15
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Everything]
#21730696 - 05/27/15 11:18 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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The Nothing told me... actually, It's just a hypothesis of mine. But you can test it, if you'd like.
-------------------- One should of, but shouldn't of had to. Because One Shouldn't of, but had to. Pm me If you are trying to discuss that one thing that everybody knows but is so hard to put into words.
Edited by R0B0G3N3S1S (05/27/15 11:20 PM)
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Everything
(~} ;-}



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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: R0B0G3N3S1S]
#21730704 - 05/27/15 11:23 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I kind of felt like the 4 years i was prescribed adderall/concerta/vyvanse that some of my childhood was taken away...but that was when i was 10-14 so obviously I'd feel that way being on drugs i never wanted to be on in the first place...But your whole theory on building connections and taking away ones that don't help makes no sense.
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HolliDaze
Big dabbaa



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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Drumdude27]
#21730710 - 05/27/15 11:26 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Its a bandaid to a bigger problem.....
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Everything
(~} ;-}



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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: HolliDaze]
#21730725 - 05/27/15 11:32 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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dude i never felt like i had a problem, i felt like the problem was all the drugs.
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R0B0G3N3S1S
Quantum Mechanic

Registered: 04/08/15
Posts: 330
Loc: Noosphere
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Everything]
#21730768 - 05/27/15 11:50 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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actually, it makes some sense, I can't remember what the process is called but it's basically the last step in brain developement ... I think it's like neuronal pruning or something along those lines. It is in my opinion that stimulants stunt growth and cause this to prematurely happen.
And now you have a problem because you no longer take the drugs.
-------------------- One should of, but shouldn't of had to. Because One Shouldn't of, but had to. Pm me If you are trying to discuss that one thing that everybody knows but is so hard to put into words.
Edited by R0B0G3N3S1S (05/27/15 11:51 PM)
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Everything
(~} ;-}



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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: R0B0G3N3S1S]
#21730781 - 05/27/15 11:56 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ohhhh i take drugs alright!
and i actually meant the problem was literally being on the drugs, they made me have a very one track mind..work work work!!!! playing lost its fun, talking to people wasn't that interesting etc... but yeah now i feel fine. I had some anxiety after quitting the meds but i definitely remember the pivotal point when i felt normal again.
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R0B0G3N3S1S
Quantum Mechanic

Registered: 04/08/15
Posts: 330
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Everything]
#21730839 - 05/28/15 12:22 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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erm, what meds were they, how much, how long, and how long did it take to feel normal again?
-------------------- One should of, but shouldn't of had to. Because One Shouldn't of, but had to. Pm me If you are trying to discuss that one thing that everybody knows but is so hard to put into words.
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Murzelpfrumpft
pet donkey in a lucid dream

Registered: 08/09/12
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: fapjack]
#21731205 - 05/28/15 04:31 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
fapjack said: Most mental illnesses are bullshit. Not to say people don't have neurological conditions, but psychologists aren't biologists. They shouldn't be diagnosing anything either way. Psychiatrists are even worse. Neuropharmacologists are a much better option.
Dude, this is so wrong.
Have you read all the posts about lots of the neurological disorders not having a biological cause? At least not one that can be found by modern science. Depression is no serotine defiency and ADD no lack of dopamine. Using drugs that don't cure a disease is deteriorating to the human health.
Behavior is what can really cause the feelings and, well, behavior of a individuum without taking a toll on it's health.
It's just fine that psychologists can diagnose. They should even be able to write scripts. A psychologists learns more about the human brain than the average biologist.
If you want drugs and nothing but drugs, go see a neuropharmacologist or neurologist.
I've been there and done that. Medication is not a cure, it's awful in most long term cases.
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Astral Pain
Strange

Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 2,923
Loc: Chicago
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Drumdude27]
#21731240 - 05/28/15 05:12 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I don't know about the science behind it, but for me it's like I have a brick on the accelerator of my brain with a faulty transmission. I have taken ritalin in the past and found that it didn't remove the brick, but fixed the transmission of my brain.
In class without the meds it was like the marching band was runing down the hallway, and with meds there was complete silence with a calming hum in the air. Reading was the most difficult. It was like trying to read a book filled with random words. This was due to the fact that I was continuously forgetting the sentence I had previously read. It was just like reading random words that weren't connected, and making comprehension impossible. Anybody else experience this?
Anyone here take ritalin as an adult? I took it for a little bit back when I had to read a ton for a class needed for my certification, but I'm thinking about talking to my doctor about starting back up.
-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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fapjack
Title



Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 16,574
Loc: Central New Jersey
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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I was referring to neurobiologists, but even still I'm going to say the average biologist has a better understanding of how the brain functions than a psychologist. If you want to talk to someone about your problems, they don't need to go to college to be helpful. Not to say therapy is useless, but its not going to cure a neurological condition which is what psychology claims causes mental illness. Also I was talking about psychitrists when referencing neurologists/neuropharmacologists. I don't really think psych drugs are a good idea for most people, though there certainly are exceptions.
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Murzelpfrumpft
pet donkey in a lucid dream

Registered: 08/09/12
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: fapjack]
#21731294 - 05/28/15 05:58 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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What? Therapy can't cure mental disorders 
We do that for fun, don't we?
What does a neurobiologist know about keeping humans healthy? That's a scientist, purely theoretic in his education.
You need to see that changes in behavior reflect changes in brain chemistry. This is why therapy can cure neurological malfunctions.
You might not need college education for having a little conversation with a friend. But have you ever tried helping someone with a severe disorder? You won't achieve jack shit without knowledge and experience.
And especially the average biologist has close to no business with the brain chemistry related to health.
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fapjack
Title



Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 16,574
Loc: Central New Jersey
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Therapy doesn't cure mental disorders, it treats them. I've been to enough mental hospitals and talked to enough crazy people to form my own opinion on the failings of the mental health field. It's pretty ineffective for most of the people I've met. If people think it helps fine, but I think its a lot of desperate people looking for answers that don't exist. It's like church for the other mental health issues. Sometimes hope is all we have. People want to be heard, people want to be shown empathy, people want a place to vent, and people want to not be judged. You are paying to vent to someone that gives you "objective" answers to your problems. Sounds more like religion to me than an actual science. Just my "subjective" opinion though...
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Edited by fapjack (05/28/15 07:45 AM)
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: fapjack]
#21731538 - 05/28/15 07:57 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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same with any medication. like therapy, medication (which are supposed to be used in tandem) will TREAT and not cure anything.
because it's not a disease... it's a disorder. like OCD is a disorder.
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fapjack
Title



Registered: 07/26/07
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: akira_akuma]
#21731574 - 05/28/15 08:07 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's only a disorder if its affecting your life in a negative way. OCD can be extremely helpful to some people, just as being bipolar or having ADHD can be helpful to some individuals. If it is an evolutionary advantage for some I don't see how it's a disorder. More variation in our gene pool is a good thing.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: fapjack]
#21731847 - 05/28/15 09:36 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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yeah, well i never said you NEED to get help. i said, it's available if you do. and that's the way it should be. why do people have to feel like they could get help even if they wanted it because "it's bullshit", like so many say? i say, that's bullshit.
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Thayendanegea
quiet walker



Registered: 02/20/12
Posts: 7,596
Loc: 7 Lodges Nation
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: akira_akuma]
#21732043 - 05/28/15 10:40 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I did a lot of research on Ritalin in the early 90's when my son was diagnosed with ADD and they wanted to put him on it. I was going to night school, so I did a paper on it.
What I found was very disheartening.Ritalin is the patented name for methylphenidate which was developed by a company called Ciba in the mid 70's. Both ADD and ADHD were terms that were developed by physicians on the Ciba payroll...there was no ADD or ADHD before Ciba coined the terminology. I'm sure that science has come a long way since I wrote the paper...but, the way they described how, exactly, a stimulant could calm down the mind of a hyperactive kid...was called "the paradoxical effect". Which means...lol...they really didn't know...it was a paradox.
Adults they tested did not get the same benefits as kids under 13 or right around puberty (which is when they said a child should be taken off of it.) These weren't originally intended for adults. Also, the original tests were done by a guy named Connor, I think and were mostly done on inner city kids from Baltimore.
Ciba pushed these drugs to anybody that had a problem with hyperactive kids from school nurses to family doctors. They gave lavish vacations to the physicians that prescribed the most cases and had all kinds of gifts they gave for sales of their product. It was all really fucking wrong. The problem was....it worked, but at what expense...All it did was make the adults (teachers and parents) lives easier by calming the kids...they really didn't care what the side effects were for the kids.
Anyway, like I said, there have been many studies done since my paper was written, but, then...I was convinced that it was a bad idea to put my child on it and I do not regret that decision. He's now a grown man and has no addictions and is a parent himself...He still shows some of those old symptoms but has learned to adjust by adopting some concentrating techniques...some as simple as closing your eyes to shut out other stimuli while listening to someone. I also think that there have been new laws enacted to stop drug companies from promoting their products that way. Anyway, I hope this helped someone that may be on the fence. Raising a ADD or ADHD kid is not easy but can accomplished with a little extra effort....and without stimulants.
-------------------- Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better. Albert Einstein
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Idk man life is just better with an add script especially if you are a gamer lol
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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Everything
(~} ;-}



Registered: 06/26/10
Posts: 5,157
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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I have noticed the pardoxical affect in myself. While others take the same stimulant ADD drug and get all talkative and social and hyped up i get/stay calm but become focused and alert. I just want to do shit, not sit around and talk and smoke cigs but i've noticed others that do it become really sociable.
The other thing i've noticed is as i've gotten older the effects have definitely changed, i get just as high actually but not as locked in to what i am doing which is good because when i was younger i would turn into a work zombie.
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Astral Pain
Strange

Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 2,923
Loc: Chicago
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Everything]
#21732619 - 05/28/15 01:31 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ritalin does that to me as well. I get into a calming zone and feel like I can plan out every minute of the rest of my life in my head. The messy desk in my head is all filed away and neatly organized.Makes me feel like an evil genius. Time for me to talk to my doctor. Adderal makes me lose my mind, and I can't even think straight at all. That must be what meth feels like.
Edited by Astral Pain (05/28/15 01:39 PM)
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Astral Pain]
#21732733 - 05/28/15 02:10 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Is that guy in the GIF on one or something lol thats how I look when I'm spun.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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Murzelpfrumpft
pet donkey in a lucid dream

Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1,855
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: fapjack]
#21732930 - 05/28/15 03:14 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
fapjack said: Therapy doesn't cure mental disorders, it treats them. I've been to enough mental hospitals and talked to enough crazy people to form my own opinion on the failings of the mental health field.
Let's agree to disagree, I see that in another light and it's probably due to studying biology and psychology two years each.
What was said about the history of Ritalin is pretty spot on. This was done with many other medications in the exact same way. Its still done today. Therapy works better than medication, for most people and in the long run. There are many people who can be called cured by therapy. More of a fact than an opinion.
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R0B0G3N3S1S
Quantum Mechanic

Registered: 04/08/15
Posts: 330
Loc: Noosphere
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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I'm telling you guys, using their current psychological evaluations to diagnose add is going to lead to some rather ugly side effects... like lime disease that looks like acne being misdiagnosed and then spread to a large amount of people.
And prescribing medication that causes defeciency of magnesium and metals in a country where the land is already depleted of said metals is going to just exasterbate all these infections that look like add.
https://www.google.com/search?q=adhd+sodium+magnesiumm+pump+and+medication&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=adhd+sodium+potassium+pump+and+medication
Take a magnesium bath, do your homework, and then decide if you need prescription medications.
-------------------- One should of, but shouldn't of had to. Because One Shouldn't of, but had to. Pm me If you are trying to discuss that one thing that everybody knows but is so hard to put into words.
Edited by R0B0G3N3S1S (05/28/15 05:59 PM)
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R0B0G3N3S1S
Quantum Mechanic

Registered: 04/08/15
Posts: 330
Loc: Noosphere
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: R0B0G3N3S1S]
#21733605 - 05/28/15 06:00 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I wonder how many people I just cured of adhd with the last post.
-------------------- One should of, but shouldn't of had to. Because One Shouldn't of, but had to. Pm me If you are trying to discuss that one thing that everybody knows but is so hard to put into words.
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