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OfflineR0B0G3N3S1S
Quantum Mechanic

Registered: 04/08/15
Posts: 330
Loc: Noosphere
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Everything]
    #21730839 - 05/28/15 12:22 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

erm, what meds were they, how much, how long, and how long did it take to feel normal again?


--------------------
One should of, but shouldn't of had to.
Because One Shouldn't of, but had to.
Pm me If you are trying to discuss that one thing that everybody knows but is so hard to put into words.


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OfflineMurzelpfrumpft
pet donkey in a lucid dream

Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1,855
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: fapjack]
    #21731205 - 05/28/15 04:31 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

fapjack said:
Most mental illnesses are bullshit.  Not to say people don't have neurological conditions, but psychologists aren't biologists.  They shouldn't be diagnosing anything either way.  Psychiatrists are even worse.  Neuropharmacologists are a much better option.




Dude, this is so wrong.

Have you read all the posts about lots of the neurological disorders not having a biological cause? At least not one that can be found by modern science.
Depression is no serotine defiency and ADD no lack of dopamine. Using drugs that don't cure a disease is deteriorating to the human health.

Behavior is what can really cause the feelings and, well, behavior of a individuum without taking a toll on it's health.

It's just fine that psychologists can diagnose. They should even be able to write scripts. A psychologists learns more about the human brain than the average biologist.

If you want drugs and nothing but drugs, go see a neuropharmacologist or neurologist.

I've been there and done that. Medication is not a cure, it's awful in most long term cases.


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InvisibleAstral Pain
Strange

Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 2,923
Loc: Chicago
Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Drumdude27]
    #21731240 - 05/28/15 05:12 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I don't know about the science behind it, but for me it's like I have a brick on the accelerator of my brain with a faulty transmission. I have taken ritalin in the past and found that it didn't remove the brick, but fixed the transmission of my brain.

In class without the meds it was like the marching band was runing down the hallway, and with meds there was complete silence with a calming hum in the air. Reading was the most difficult. It was like trying to read a book filled with random words. This was due to the fact that I was continuously forgetting the sentence I had previously read. It was just like reading random words that weren't connected, and making comprehension impossible. Anybody else experience this?

Anyone here take ritalin as an adult?  I took it for a little bit back when I had to read a ton for a class needed for my certification, but I'm thinking about talking to my doctor about starting back up.


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"I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out"               
                -Bill Hicks-

__


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Offlinefapjack
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Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 16,574
Loc: Central New Jersey
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Murzelpfrumpft]
    #21731249 - 05/28/15 05:23 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I was referring to neurobiologists, but even still I'm going to say the average biologist has a better understanding of how the brain functions than a psychologist.  If you want to talk to someone about your problems, they don't need to go to college to be helpful.  Not to say therapy is useless, but its not going to cure a neurological condition which is what psychology claims causes mental illness.  Also I was talking about psychitrists when referencing neurologists/neuropharmacologists.  I don't really think psych drugs are a good idea for most people, though there certainly are exceptions.


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OfflineMurzelpfrumpft
pet donkey in a lucid dream

Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1,855
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: fapjack]
    #21731294 - 05/28/15 05:58 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

What? Therapy can't cure mental disorders :lolsy:

We do that for fun, don't we?

What does a neurobiologist know about keeping humans healthy? That's a scientist, purely theoretic in his education.

You need to see that changes in behavior reflect changes in brain chemistry.
This is why therapy can cure neurological malfunctions.

You might not need college education for having a little conversation with a friend.
But have you ever tried helping someone with a severe disorder? You won't achieve jack shit without knowledge and experience.

And especially the average biologist has close to no business with the brain chemistry related to health.



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Offlinefapjack
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Murzelpfrumpft]
    #21731501 - 05/28/15 07:39 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Therapy doesn't cure mental disorders, it treats them.  I've been to enough mental hospitals and talked to enough crazy people to form my own opinion on the failings of the mental health field.  It's pretty ineffective for most of the people I've met.  If people think it helps fine, but I think its a lot of desperate people looking for answers that don't exist.  It's like church for the other mental health issues.  Sometimes hope is all we have.  People want to be heard, people want to be shown empathy, people want a place to vent, and people want to not be judged.  You are paying to vent to someone that gives you "objective" answers to your problems.  Sounds more like religion to me than an actual science.  Just my "subjective" opinion though...


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Edited by fapjack (05/28/15 07:45 AM)


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: fapjack]
    #21731538 - 05/28/15 07:57 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

same with any medication. like therapy, medication (which are supposed to be used in tandem) will TREAT and not cure anything.

because it's not a disease... it's a disorder. like OCD is a disorder.


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Offlinefapjack
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Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 16,574
Loc: Central New Jersey
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21731574 - 05/28/15 08:07 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

It's only a disorder if its affecting your life in a negative way.  OCD can be extremely helpful to some people, just as being bipolar or having ADHD can be helpful to some individuals.  If it is an evolutionary advantage for some I don't see how it's a disorder.  More variation in our gene pool is a good thing.


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: fapjack]
    #21731847 - 05/28/15 09:36 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

yeah, well i never said you NEED to get help. i said, it's available if you do. and that's the way it should be. why do people have to feel like they could get help even if they wanted it because "it's bullshit", like so many say? i say, that's bullshit.


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InvisibleThayendanegea
quiet walker
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Registered: 02/20/12
Posts: 7,596
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21732043 - 05/28/15 10:40 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I did a lot of research on Ritalin in the early 90's when my son was diagnosed with ADD and they wanted to put him on it. I was going to night school, so I did a paper on it.

What I found was very disheartening.Ritalin is the patented name for methylphenidate which was developed by a company called Ciba in the mid 70's. Both ADD and ADHD were terms that were developed by physicians on the Ciba payroll...there was no ADD or ADHD before Ciba coined the terminology. I'm sure that science has come a long way since I wrote the paper...but, the way they described how, exactly, a stimulant could calm down the mind of a hyperactive kid...was called "the paradoxical effect". Which means...lol...they really didn't know...it was a paradox.

Adults they tested did not get the same benefits as kids under 13 or right around puberty (which is when they said a child should be taken off of it.) These weren't originally intended for adults. Also, the original tests were done by a guy named Connor, I think and were mostly done on inner city kids from Baltimore.

Ciba pushed these drugs to anybody that had a problem with hyperactive kids from school nurses to family doctors. They gave lavish vacations to the physicians that prescribed the most cases and had all kinds of gifts they gave for sales of their product.
It was all really fucking wrong. The problem was....it worked, but at what expense...All it did was make the adults (teachers and parents) lives easier by calming the kids...they really didn't care what the side effects were for the kids.

Anyway, like I said, there have been many studies done since my paper was written, but, then...I was convinced that it was a bad idea to put my child on it and I do not regret that decision. He's now a grown man and has no addictions and is a parent himself...He still shows some of those old symptoms but has learned to adjust by adopting  some concentrating techniques...some as simple as closing your eyes to shut out other stimuli while listening to someone. I also think that there have been new laws enacted to stop drug companies from promoting their products that way. Anyway, I hope this helped someone that may be on the fence. Raising a ADD or ADHD kid is not easy but can accomplished with a little extra effort....and without stimulants.:sunny::peace:


--------------------
Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better.

Albert Einstein


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OfflineBitter Cactus
reformed bad boy
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Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Thayendanegea]
    #21732278 - 05/28/15 12:03 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Idk man life is just better with an add script especially if you are a gamer lol


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Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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OfflineEverything
(~} ;-}
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Registered: 06/26/10
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Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Thayendanegea]
    #21732320 - 05/28/15 12:14 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I have noticed the pardoxical affect in myself. While others take the same stimulant ADD drug and get all talkative and social and hyped up i get/stay calm but become focused and alert. I just want to do shit, not sit around and talk and smoke cigs but i've noticed others that do it become really sociable.

The other thing i've noticed is as i've gotten older the effects have definitely changed, i get just as high actually but not as locked in to what i am doing which is good because when i was younger i would turn into a work zombie.


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InvisibleAstral Pain
Strange

Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 2,923
Loc: Chicago
Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Everything]
    #21732619 - 05/28/15 01:31 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Ritalin does that to me as well. I get into a calming zone and feel like I can plan out every minute of the rest of my life in my head. The messy desk in my head is all filed away and neatly organized.Makes me feel like an evil genius. Time for me to talk to my doctor. Adderal makes me lose my mind, and I can't even think straight at all. That must be what meth feels like.


                   


Edited by Astral Pain (05/28/15 01:39 PM)


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OfflineBitter Cactus
reformed bad boy
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Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Astral Pain]
    #21732733 - 05/28/15 02:10 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Is that guy in the GIF on one or something lol thats how I look when I'm spun.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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OfflineMurzelpfrumpft
pet donkey in a lucid dream

Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1,855
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: fapjack]
    #21732930 - 05/28/15 03:14 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

fapjack said:
Therapy doesn't cure mental disorders, it treats them.  I've been to enough mental hospitals and talked to enough crazy people to form my own opinion on the failings of the mental health field.




Let's agree to disagree, I see that in another light and it's probably due to studying biology and psychology two years each.

What was said about the history of Ritalin is pretty spot on. This was done with many other medications in the exact same way. Its still done today.
Therapy works better than medication, for most people and in the long run. There are many people who can be called cured by therapy. More of a fact than an opinion.


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OfflineR0B0G3N3S1S
Quantum Mechanic

Registered: 04/08/15
Posts: 330
Loc: Noosphere
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: Murzelpfrumpft]
    #21733571 - 05/28/15 05:51 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I'm telling you guys, using their current psychological evaluations to diagnose add is going to lead to some rather ugly side effects... like lime disease that looks like acne being misdiagnosed and then spread to a large amount of people.

And prescribing medication that causes defeciency of magnesium and metals in a country where the land is already depleted of said metals is going to just exasterbate all these infections that look like add.

https://www.google.com/search?q=adhd+sodium+magnesiumm+pump+and+medication&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=adhd+sodium+potassium+pump+and+medication

Take a magnesium bath, do your homework, and then decide if you need prescription medications.


--------------------
One should of, but shouldn't of had to.
Because One Shouldn't of, but had to.
Pm me If you are trying to discuss that one thing that everybody knows but is so hard to put into words.


Edited by R0B0G3N3S1S (05/28/15 05:59 PM)


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OfflineR0B0G3N3S1S
Quantum Mechanic

Registered: 04/08/15
Posts: 330
Loc: Noosphere
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: How amphetamine helps with ADD [Re: R0B0G3N3S1S]
    #21733605 - 05/28/15 06:00 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I wonder how many people I just cured of adhd with the last post.


--------------------
One should of, but shouldn't of had to.
Because One Shouldn't of, but had to.
Pm me If you are trying to discuss that one thing that everybody knows but is so hard to put into words.


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