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Offlinecircastes
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New ways to think?
    #21719797 - 05/25/15 06:11 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

You may have noticed on weed or mushrooms or other psychotropics that watching boring old advertisements or watching deliberately funny comedy... it all becomes something else, quite involuntarily. So you burst out laughing at the astonishment of what's happening.

So that's involuntary.

Can you think differently voluntarily?

Some people's humor are possible examples of thinking in a higher way, the really good modern comedians. They strike you suddenly with this whole other perspective for a second and it makes you laugh.

How is it done, deliberately, as an exercise?

Are there new ways to think waiting in the brain, kind of like the DMT universe is always just waiting for you? The out of body world, again, just waiting for you out there.

Somehow I feel this existence of ours, it's all plotted, and we're supposed to discover higher rungs in the mind. A lot of talented artists do this naturally, see Beksinski from Poland. Salvador Dali.

These guys weren't just betraying the norms and being all far out mannn and trippy and pretentious, they were on another level.

How do we get there?


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: New ways to think? [Re: circastes]
    #21720029 - 05/25/15 08:19 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Meditate in search of aliens or alien craft.


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OfflineRennHuhn
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Re: New ways to think? [Re: circastes]
    #21723549 - 05/26/15 04:35 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Read philosophy.
Read new political opinions and theories.
Smoke weed.
Do psychedelics.
Meditate.
Train your imagination.
Read science fiction .
Expose yourself to different subcultures.
Read the writings of medieval or antique authors.
Listen to Terence McKenna.
Research stuff that is interesting.
Talk with random people.
Immerse youself in political discussiosn of the past.
Research the rise and fall of past civilisations.
Read good social science works.
Write a diary and read the thoughts of your past self.
Create your own new paradigms and use them.
Try to redefine ideas and see where they lead.
Do thought experiments.
Write your own science fiction.

To discover new ways to think creativity is key. And creativity is best stimulated by new experiences. Also you need to be conscious about your own process ofthought to discover changes within yourself.
A diary is a huge help when you do that as your own process of thought is hard to remember.

And changing your perspective is important as things like traveling also dissolve the borders that hinder your creativity.

My favorite "tool" is Terence Mckenna. He has a way to talk that stimulates my own thinking.


Edited by RennHuhn (05/26/15 04:37 AM)


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Offlinesecondorder
Amanda Hug'n'kiss
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Re: New ways to think? [Re: RennHuhn]
    #21723794 - 05/26/15 07:13 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Read philosophy.
Read new political opinions and theories.
Smoke weed.
Do psychedelics.
Meditate.
Train your imagination.
Read science fiction .
Expose yourself to different subcultures.
Read the writings of medieval or antique authors.
Listen to Terence McKenna.
Research stuff that is interesting.
Talk with random people.
Immerse youself in political discussiosn of the past.
Research the rise and fall of past civilisations.
Read good social science works.
Write a diary and read the thoughts of your past self.
Create your own new paradigms and use them.
Try to redefine ideas and see where they lead.
Do thought experiments.
Write your own science fiction.

To discover new ways to think creativity is key. And creativity is best stimulated by new experiences. Also you need to be conscious about your own process ofthought to discover changes within yourself.
A diary is a huge help when you do that as your own process of thought is hard to remember.

And changing your perspective is important as things like traveling also dissolve the borders that hinder your creativity.

My favorite "tool" is Terence Mckenna. He has a way to talk that stimulates my own thinking.




Pretty much hit the nail on the head, although I'll make explicit something that has been alluded to here: Do these things with an open, critical mind. Try to break every thought, theory and idea down with deductive logic, even the ones you come up with yourself, and for the ideas that you can't break down; you might have just found some ideological gold.


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: New ways to think? [Re: secondorder]
    #21723826 - 05/26/15 07:26 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

You forgot traveling.  It's a hell of a lot better for having new thoughts then staring at the back of your eye lids.  Or some creepy culty guy from the 60's using big words talking to people who are looking for something.


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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Offlinesecondorder
Amanda Hug'n'kiss
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Re: New ways to think? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21724251 - 05/26/15 10:03 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Yes! totally forgot travel.


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InvisibleTropism
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Re: New ways to think? [Re: circastes]
    #21724946 - 05/26/15 01:44 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
You may have noticed on weed or mushrooms or other psychotropics that watching boring old advertisements or watching deliberately funny comedy... it all becomes something else, quite involuntarily. So you burst out laughing at the astonishment of what's happening.

So that's involuntary.

Can you think differently voluntarily?

Some people's humor are possible examples of thinking in a higher way, the really good modern comedians. They strike you suddenly with this whole other perspective for a second and it makes you laugh.

How is it done, deliberately, as an exercise?

Are there new ways to think waiting in the brain, kind of like the DMT universe is always just waiting for you? The out of body world, again, just waiting for you out there.

Somehow I feel this existence of ours, it's all plotted, and we're supposed to discover higher rungs in the mind. A lot of talented artists do this naturally, see Beksinski from Poland. Salvador Dali.

These guys weren't just betraying the norms and being all far out mannn and trippy and pretentious, they were on another level.

How do we get there?




Slow conditioning is my guess.
As someone who's strong defense mechanism is humour I find myself to be a bit of a comedian, often involuntarily, but I don't think it appeared over night.
Two of my older siblings use this same mechanism and I can recall myself slowly learning to accommodate it into my lifestyle, as I was an impressionable younger sibling it integrated into my persona pretty strongly.

Why this is relevant is after the years passed I feel this mechanism has fully integrated so to speak and I have natural thought patterns that are different as you say,
and while they may have at one time being a conscious voluntary effort I have since conditioned myself past that.
For better or worse I am the guy that can make the party laugh with a joke from left field. That different thinking isn't different anymore.

I dissect dialogues in media, and am a strong enjoyer of the 'comic's comic'.
Due to my siblings and my childhood and the mechanisms I've been exposed to I have been conditioned into the comic's mind set, but I have to wonder did this really have anything special to it other than repetition?
I remember when I found the shroomery almost a decade ago my thought processes had hardly been dedicated to logical consistency and frequenter of devil's advocate, yet now my mind explores those venues reflexively.
I imagine that alike that any kind of thinking can be conditioned with enough time and repetition.


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InvisibleKurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 1,688
Re: New ways to think? [Re: circastes]
    #21725621 - 05/26/15 05:12 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
You may have noticed on weed or mushrooms or other psychotropics that watching boring old advertisements or watching deliberately funny comedy... it all becomes something else, quite involuntarily. So you burst out laughing at the astonishment of what's happening.

So that's involuntary.

Can you think differently voluntarily?

Some people's humor are possible examples of thinking in a higher way, the really good modern comedians. They strike you suddenly with this whole other perspective for a second and it makes you laugh.

How is it done, deliberately, as an exercise?

Are there new ways to think waiting in the brain, kind of like the DMT universe is always just waiting for you? The out of body world, again, just waiting for you out there.

Somehow I feel this existence of ours, it's all plotted, and we're supposed to discover higher rungs in the mind. A lot of talented artists do this naturally, see Beksinski from Poland. Salvador Dali.

These guys weren't just betraying the norms and being all far out mannn and trippy and pretentious, they were on another level.

How do we get there?




Those are some great insights, particularly into humour as mechanism for lightness and ease in changability of thinking.

It would be interesting to attempt to transpose this to philosophical approach, maybe a way of questioning what a person's "sense of humor" refers to.

Philosophers have often argued if a "sense" refers to an intuitive perceptive faculty, or just a simple point of reference of some implied material object.

With humor we may wonder, is it merely what we refer to - as lightheartedness, and flexibility, being subject to the changeability of a point of reference? Or is it something we "have" in us, something heavy and growling maybe and visceral coming from the belly? Certainly it is not just what we refer to the changeability of a point of reference in general, but it seems impossible to say much more in trying to describe humor.

Generally, can we say a "sense" of humor is anything at all, something we could actually "have" in us tending through the flesh blood, and organs to the gutteral center? And is there substance to humor beyond its modes of changes? I would not say I have an answer but maybe it is possible to get clear about this route of thinking, or at least possibly raise an intriguing question.

I would say the changability of thinking which we seem to automatically appreciate as a lightness of a sense of humor, the reflexivity referred to in the OP, could somewhat prior to designation of an aspect we appreciate, also be considered in abstract as just the modality (or changeability in reference) which in humor we automatically attribute to humor in general. (This is more deconstructive gesture, than something to actually find in humor. Changeability of reference -the appeal to a joke - or an attempt at it, is not necessarily lightness or wit, it could be dullness and banality, as much as it still attempts to be a changing reference.)

In a manner of speaking we say a "sense" could meaningfully designate something "of humor", though we are not sure what this is. It is appealed to. If we wonder, is it beyond us, or in us, aside from that, we may be contented with referring to the openness of possibility in that in general. We are empirically minded, ie open to the experience of humor. And humor is something like a sense experience, I think.

But what is its substance, under the reflexive change of reference?

I would propose maybe a sense of "humor" refers to something, aside from the way we are just impressed by it. Clearly it does, whether it can or can't be worked out.

I'm not sure how far this analogy goes, but there are different kinds of humor, to be sure as much as there are different points of view of the world, although one clearly doesn't simply designate the other in any kind of way. When we attribute a style to a comic it never can predict whether someone would enjoy it, or find it tasteful. The experience of humor is primal. This is why the frame of reference of humor in general may be entirely seen in its shifting, it is not something strictly to be seen as significant, or literal.

Is there something beyond mere changability of reference, "lightness" cleverness? What can you say of it? We can  speculate there is substance of humor, or a faculty of humor in us, behind its general changing of reference and impressionability, but we can never speak of it in terms of humor in a positive way.  We know humour is simple in its reflex, we are inclined to appreciate that in its lightness, or mode of swift changeability or witticism and cleverness but in an unspoken way there is also what a sense of humor is(what humor itself is) too.

It is clear that the comic does not always ideally represent and reciprocate what is evoked as humor, and that can be humor itself. Humor is impressed on us in this way, but rather than thinking that a comic is just hiding what humor really is, this could be appreciated as a kind of "dryness" of humor. Rather than showing it on their faces, some comics are "cool" like Mitch hedberg. Maybe things like this are what could and do attribute to humor. We must admit it does not reveal an overall frame of reference, for instance to what could be found tasteful or not. Of course, we all like the "clever" ones, we say!

I was recently at a museum, looking at old museum paintings and found it most interesting to see what someone from the 1200's or 1600's maybe intended as impressed humour. These people had a sense of humor? And was it all farts and snot whistles?

The hippocratean physicians though they were rationalists were scientific about designating the modes of humour. Ie they believe a humour was literally something we have in us (like an a priori intuition) but they also thought this humor was a substance in the gut...which related to various "temperments" or intuitive modes of being.

This is where we actually get the idea of "humor", which we mostly are happy just having a "sense" of - or a reflex in point of reference - of today.

The wikis on "humor" and the "four temperments" are pretty interesting...

So my question in sum is this; could humor be something that is not just impressed on us, but something we have in us? Or is it implied in our "culture" or values, or in our "nature" (I think we are more likely to think this with ease) I think it is easy to assume any of these things.

I wonder, is humor like something in the gut of a person we get to know, the way we laugh, or something a little gross? Or maybe our humour is just in our "openness" the way visceral experience of physical reality works out, or clears itself. Maybe it only raises questions of what is only "alluded" to in humor?

On that note, I like the idea that questions are as novel as humor in changing the perceived direction of thinking.

In "The End of Philosophy and The Task of Thinking" Heidegger put the question in a very unique place, almost with a dry irreverence...

"Questions are paths towards an answer. If the answer could be given it would consist in a transformation of thinking, not in a proposition about a matter at stake."

Anyway might as well end with a philosopher who seems entirely without humor?

Interesting stuff here. Or weird stuff anyway. Nice being weird with you all today.



Edited by Kurt (05/28/15 12:10 AM)


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: New ways to think? [Re: Kurt]
    #21727222 - 05/27/15 01:37 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

:mindblown:


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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InvisibleKurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 1,688
Re: New ways to think? [Re: circastes]
    #21727729 - 05/27/15 08:07 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I think I must have been tripping on something when I attempted that.  Anyhow I did like your post, and could maybe put my question more concretely.

Is there substance under the modality (reflexive changing of reference) of humor? I would say there is, but maybe to find it out you kill humor, because without the surprise or deception its not humor anymore.

Things just get weird with mind body thing, whether it is found plausible or not. Maybe it would be possible to say it is a connection we can't trace in this case because the experiential (empirical) basis of humor doesn't according to its particular structure allow it.

"Humour or humor (see spelling differences) is the tendency of particular cognitive experiences to provoke laughter and provide amusement. The term derives from the humoral medicine of the ancient Greeks, which taught that the balance of fluids in the human body, known as humours (Latin: humor, "body fluid"), controlled human health and emotion."


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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
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Re: New ways to think? [Re: Kurt]
    #21728945 - 05/27/15 02:18 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I would say, and I know this sounds like a catch-all since I say it so often, but the best way to get at new ways of thinking is to just spend time in nature..

I spent years studying as well, at first, since the start, I followed the principle of selectivity; but fairly quickly, after spending a time of study, searching for the top 1% of humanity's genius; pretty quickly you come to the idea that higher realizations are the result of long periods of time spent in meditation or concentration.  Reflection; simply letting thigns be - not choosing, not accepting or rejecting, not affirming or denying,

which is the same as embracing experience truly, and completely. . .


Since above all, what are we trying to experience except that which is beyond our senses?

And so things like a unity between logic and intuitions, or things like this, are suggestions as possibilities for higher consciousness capabilities,

examples such as dream are suggested; and these can only be verified or not by experience, yet enough people declare that all of this is a dream - even a dream within a dream - it certainly made me curious to explore more, and I can definitely say that I believe it is, and that I have experienced that it is.


The only way I can remember to describe this in words is that once you wake up from the dream, you know you have done so.


All of those stories such as the man who saw a snake, turned out to be a rope, etc.

all that understand that there are unlimited levels of dream - but also unlimited levels of the awake state. . and in truth the two are not different, because they rest upon each other. . . yet also the state of awareness exists pure, on its own, and the illusion can be said to be like a shadow, which vanishes in the light. . .

The final descriptions in words of this are multiple, they include, as Watts mentioned, "Everything fading into Divine Laughter," or dancing around a camp-fire, or anything -

Anyway - it's fascinating because there are unlimited levels of consciousness.. it's boundless; and there are several


there are several fascinating factors of it, of waking up and revelation; one is that what seemed to have been lost is suddenly returned -- one realizes one never lost anything, it's always been the same, one's always been part of everything, connected to it all; from the first day of birth, we are an expression of the universe, and often and in many ways more of it could be seen from that first moment, only the soul for the most.. . . it's another interesting topic there, the state of consciousness for an infant, undifferentiated, a pure an expression of buddha-nature as we ever create. . how so much the individual can get back to that pure state of potentiality partly determines how well they do in life.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
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Offlinesaenchai
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Re: New ways to think? [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21730711 - 05/27/15 11:27 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

.


Edited by saenchai (06/12/15 06:02 AM)


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