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Mescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 6,755
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Bulk or Cut [Re: Masked]
#21875296 - 06/29/15 07:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Masked said: So all the crossfitters who, when interviewed, explain they got this way from crossfitting are ALL lying? Sure, some of them have done other things
I mean, we are all human with extensive backgrounds in all sorts of things of course. So if and when I get like that from crossfit, are you going to say it wasn't the crossfit, it was the years of wrestling or my time with martial arts, or the years I spent p90x ing?
Flawed reasoning in my opinion. It's like you intentionally want to live with horse blinders on because the overall picture is to much for your ego to handle.
I guess we will see where this takes me in another year I will try to maintain putting on an average of 1.7 of lean muscle per month until I genetically max out
The beauty of crossfit's true philosophy is, if it can make me stronger and better than I was yesterday, it will make its way into programming. There are no boundaries in this aspect. Which is why I have been more successful with it compared to any of my past training regimens.
But like you agreed, so much of it comes down to genetics. I look forward to finding my genetic peak if I can
This is for sure a new road, only 7 months, but it has been the most successful and enjoyable road I have taken yet(fitness wise)
Yes it actually does have a big role past sport wise, it's called muscle memory, believe it or not it's not a myth as some people think. It's actually a very beautiful adaptation our bodies have. Frauning was a college baseball player, the dude has some fucking guns and a back on him. And did before he did crossfit. It's called a marketing gimmick. I remember when P90X came out and a friend told me he was going to make "mad gains" I made more gains on maintnance in 3 months than he did on the program. For instance fitness magazines use a dirty trick where you photograph the model as in shape and label it as after, and pay then to put on a few lbs of fat they can easily loose and call that the before picture. The fitness industry is full of gimmicks man and crossfit is no exception. And I know you like to label me and anyone who doesn't do crossfit or like it as a "bodybuilder bro" (i think theyre teaching you these phrases to say to non crossfitters in class) I personally hate modern bodybuilding and it drives me nuts how dishonest the supplement industry is "get big like arnold take his brand" bullshit, the man loved his dianabol which I doubt is in the vit pak he sells...That's not to say it may respond to some peoples body types better. If it does cool. But it's rare. The amount of crossfitters I have met that are what would be labeled as "skinny fat" and never really make any serious strength gains. I guarentee you if you didn't play sports or do physical activity shit before you wouldn't be gaining (as much there are newb gains) Whats the most you've weighed before? Just curious to see if this will be the weight where the plateau could possibly happen.
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Masked
The Nutter


Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 8,979
Loc: Canada
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While I agree with muscle memory, if I ever hit a physique like that other dude I posted going to my gym alone, "crossfit" damn well deserves the recognition for it....not my past sports experience. That and my genes of course. And according to many personal interviews, it's been successful for others in a similar matter, no matter how much it hurts your ego to hear
And of course supplement companies and health magazines are shady. I understand the industry very well. I'm not sure why you brought that up. I'm in full agreement there
Bottom line is...we are all trying to be better than we were yesterday. Some are trying to cut more, build more...run faster, lift heavier, etc. all of us are trying to be better than we were yesterday.
And for me, nothing has been more successful at being better than I was yesterday in the way I want, like crossfit gym and programming 
Like I said, I think I'll max out around 185lbs if I can continually put on lean gains like I have. I think I will look similar to that dude I pictured above. As photoshopped as him if I'm lucky :p haha
The heaviest I have ever weighed was 198lbs...but I was packing some serious waste line and pudginess lol
And yes, I crossfit with skinny fat "crossfitters". I see them make no real strength gains like I have. I push myself harder and smarter tho I feel. I'm also not there 7 days a week like they are...which all goes back to making sure to have a good amount of rest between intense workouts like I mentioned before. But more than anything, I genetically put on muscle easy with hard work
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Mescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 6,755
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Bulk or Cut [Re: Masked]
#21875445 - 06/29/15 08:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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All I am saying is I can find plenty of personal reviews saying ronnie colemans line of products was their saving grace. Has nothing to do with my ego but me having a realistic outlook of what the fad entails money wise. It's simple deductive reasoning. A crossfit seminar is a weekend long to be a "coach" and this is with no prior experience in athletics. For just a level 1 it is 1000 dollar investment. 50 people attend a seminar that's easily 50k in 2 days! pretty nice chunk of money you can not argue that.
On top of that the claim is "were are anti expensive gym bullshit/cliqueness"
Yet if someones doesn't do crossfit there seems to be a "im superior because my lift is more "extreme" attitude" (not aiming that at you) which I'm sure you've seen these guys at your block as I have seen them at my gym hogging a squat rack for kipping pullups and being as loud and obnoxious as possible so YOU know just exactly how hard they are working out. Then the other part, the memberships, which idk what they charge up in canadia for you guys but down here easily 200-300 dollars a month.... The nicest health club in my area runs about 200.... massages weight room tennis court lap pool weight room and even HIIT classes held in the mornings. Yoga all that shit. I payed 350 for 2 years at a chain gym and continue to make solid gains. I refuse to buy into it.
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Masked
The Nutter


Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 8,979
Loc: Canada
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Well I agree it's a great money making chain for the founder. Kudos to him lol. If I could make millions selling it, I would.
We have gone around and around in circles with this. I have met shitty martial arts trainers, shitty wrestling coaches, shitty personal trainers and shitty crossfit trainers. Anyone can easily get "certified" in similar fashion, or go to school for a few months to become a personal trainer. You can find shitty anywhere. This doesn't make all personal trainers shitty OR all crossfit trainers shitty
I have seen more loud and obnoxious people at golds gym where I worked out semi regularly when I was younger, than I have at my gym. That's from my personal scope of what I have seen. I'm sure I'm bound to run into some "obnoxious" crossfitters, yes. It's bound to happen
My 3 trainers I deal with regularly, have been personally trainers and elite sports athletes for many many years. They have their level 2 crossfit certification, which in my opinion doesn't mean that much on its own except they can open their own gym. But they have extensive certifications and awards in Olympic weightlifting, gymnastics, etc
They are very knowledgeable and I have yet to see or hear of any injuries in the 7 months I've been there. And I have become pretty tight with everyone. That's one thing I like, is all the member support. It's great in that aspect
But I essentially have a personal trainer in and out of the doors. I text with them. I'm going to go to brutal workout on Canada day which will be for donation for charity and then going to a bbq. I love that aspect
It's worth the 120 a month as supposed to 50 a month at any of our gyms in town I used to pay. The results I'm getting alone are worth it 
Well we will see where I go with it. The beauty is, if I see a weakness in myself performance wise or aesthetically, that I want to work on, I can go to my trainers and say "hey...I'm lacking here. What can I do about it?" Or "Id like to do this". And they will kick my ass in every way I requested lol
My weaknesses right now, performance wise:
20lbs medicine ball wall shots/throws. They gas me like no other. They kill me when they are in a workout somewhere. I really need to work on my stamina with those
My front squat strength. I find regardless of how much lower body we do, my upper body is starting to take off and leave my lower behind. I need to start a heavy squat program
My traps are weak. I need to get those shruggers stronger
Skill wise....I need more work and more confidence and more flexibility, in front racking properly. I'm using lots of arm muscle to hold bar in place
Skill wise...I also need to really work on my jump rope. Double unders are sloppy and I suck at them. I fumble through them and it's frustrating.
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Mescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 6,755
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Bulk or Cut [Re: Masked]
#21875580 - 06/29/15 08:53 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Pause at the top for your shrugs man, that's what helped me and I can rep 315, that time under stress.
just out of curiosity do they ever have you do aesthetic lifts for supplementation? I see you say shrugs which is not really functional and I have never seen any crossfitter ever do or mention shrugs. It's always deadlift or how many "pullups" they did in how many minutes. I'd be shocked to go into a block and see someone doing heavy curls at the end of a workout. If I see the over all image change for the "sport" then yeah but the image held by it isn't a good one right now. It doesn't help either when you see someone touting crossfit with horrible form criticizing those bros down at the LA fitness (and no i refuse to work out there too not my gym of choice lol). If your gym is really as strict and professional as you say, its up to gyms like you to inform people of the fucktards trying to make a quick buck with that very easy 2 days certification (2 days compared to a 9 months of online school for a personal trainer cert.... come on man lol) and show that proper technique can be implemented into timed workouts. And I will admit I did see something stupid at the gym today. I can't call it dips, its like he only used his shoulders to dip. Probably the worst form I have seen in a long time, at my preferred gym. I agree you see it everywhere.
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jsncrs
DYEL

Registered: 01/16/14
Posts: 1,170
Loc: Mars
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Probably benefit from a body re-comp (cut fat) and then clean bulk. Or if you don't care about BF%, bulk hard and cut once you've packed on some muscle.
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Masked
The Nutter


Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 8,979
Loc: Canada
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Yeah I'll try out the pause. Thanks Shrugs and hang power cleans are great for the traps.
Yes, asthetic lifts do happen in programming, but generally only by request. But I do see them make their way into standard workouts once in awhile
I told them recently that Id like to do some more isolated movements for supplementation between or before and after "wod"s. They gave me some great ideas and have even joined me in some of my workouts.
And I know I work my core like a badass in almost everything I do there, but besides knees to elbows, toes to bars and sit-ups, there is no real isolated core movements. So I really want to start implementing a "core day" one a week
The support they offer there has been so great. And they do a lot of specialized workouts between class times which I have been starting to join in on
Going to start joining them on the smolov squat program
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PDU
travel kid vs.amerika



Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 10,675
Loc: beautiful BC
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: Bulk or Cut [Re: Masked]
#21875735 - 06/29/15 09:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Masked said: So I really want to start implementing a "core day" one a week
I just started using an Ab-roller and it seems like a really solid (and difficult) ab exercise.
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jsncrs
DYEL

Registered: 01/16/14
Posts: 1,170
Loc: Mars
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: Bulk or Cut [Re: PDU]
#21875741 - 06/29/15 09:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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+1 for ab roller. Nothing burns the fuck out of my core like one of those bad boys.
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Masked
The Nutter


Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 8,979
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
, its up to gyms like you to inform people of the fucktards trying to make a quick buck
It's up to me to do what is best for me. I spread on here how it's been successful for me for my goals. That's where it ends for me. What works for me may not work for others
It's up to the individual to use their own head and search out the legitimacy for themselves. And while on the subject, it's up to them to workout smart and safely. The responsibility, in the long run, lies on the individual
I think word is spreading around town. People seem to be flocking and the business is already getting the attention of the city. They have been nominated for 5 different business awards this year they offer multiple free trial classes and are vocal about steering people away from the negative stigmas associated with crossfit
And in an Interview, this is what glassman wants. He has no rules on franchising. You can open up a crossfit gym right next door to an existing crossfit gym if you'd like. He says "the strong one will survive" lol. I like it :p.
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Masked
The Nutter


Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 8,979
Loc: Canada
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Re: Bulk or Cut [Re: jsncrs]
#21875790 - 06/29/15 09:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
jsncrs said: +1 for ab roller. Nothing burns the fuck out of my core like one of those bad boys.
I'll have to buy one. Thanks
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secondorder
Amanda Hug'n'kiss



Registered: 04/05/15
Posts: 532
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Last seen: 9 months, 6 days
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Re: Bulk or Cut [Re: Masked]
#21876484 - 06/30/15 03:38 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have no problem with crossfit in principle. I actually like some parts of the crossfit movement. It is essentially just the conglomeration of lots of different types of physical training all into one. "Hey guys, let's do power-lifting, weightlifting, running, gymnastics and kettle-bells all in one go, with light weights and no break." They have some pretty tough workouts to complete, and a lot of crossfit workouts are actually fairly effective for developing anaerobic fitness.
What they are not very effective for, however, is getting good at any one thing in particular. After all, crossfit is just cross-training, it is unspecific by definition. The best way to get good at weightlifting is to do weightlifting, the best way to get good at power-lifting is to do power-lifting, the best way to get good at gymnastics is to do gymnastics, the best way to get good at distance running is to do distance running, but if you do all of them at the same time, you'll limit your improvements in all of them. When you combine lots of different movements into one, you don't get really good at any of them, you just get semi-decent at lots of them. If this is what you are aiming for, then crossfit will provide, but many people are sold by the illusion that crossfit will make you really good at something. The best crossfitters in the world are quite impressive, but they are nowhere near the strongest athletes in the world, they are nowhere near having the best endurance in the world, they are nowhere near the most flexible in the world. Training lots of different things at the same time will limit your ability to be exceptional at any one thing in particular.
You cannot master 12 different arts at the same time. The best way to get really good at something is to focus on that one thing, and only that one thing, for a long period of time.
As a side comment, I actually think that those aiming to be competitive crossfitters are better off focusing on strength and power for a while, before adding any of the endurance or fitness stuff to the mix, as it's easier to maintain strength when improving endurance, than it is to maintain endurance when improving strength. It's also a lot harder to get strong when your body has to adapt to endurance training simultaneously. Dimitry Klokov is a perfect example of this, he's done pretty well after a short conversion from weightlifting to crossfit, he's way stronger than any other crossfitter around, and it won't take him long to develop comparable cardio-vascular fitness; a professional distance runner would have struggled converting to crossfit big-time.
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Masked
The Nutter


Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 8,979
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Hey guys, let's do power-lifting, weightlifting, running, gymnastics and kettle-bells all in one go, with light weights and no break."
If this is what crossfit is to you, you seriously misguided
The very definition of crossfit is that it's always changing and encompassing new things. But as been discussed a thousand times, because anyone can essentially open a gym, programming is going to be different from crossfit gym to crossfit gym
I lift heavy some days, low reps. And I lift light another day high reps. I do strength 5x5 sets of a particular lift(tomorrow is bench btw) and then finish off the day with hiit with box jumps, wall balls and rowing for example. Other days it's tire flips out the back door with rope climbs.
You presumptions are pretty standard tho amongst most weight room dwellers. It's so tiring though :/
Yep, it's cross training at its finest. I'm looking to be better in overall health, fitness strength and even looks...better than I was yesterday. my crossfit gym and programming has done that and continues to do that for me weekly and has been more effective for me than anything else I've done. I'm averaging 1.7lbs of lean gains a month. We will see how long I can keep it up. My strength increases weekly. My endurance is improving. And I get comments daily on how different I looks. It's doing something effective 
I shared my results and asked pdu if he wanted my advice. I went into giving my advice fully knowing that certain people with find something to turn this into a "crossfit sucks masked advice is terrible" type convo I proceeded anyway
I think his bulking and cutting topic has gotten way off tangent. Don't you think?
I told him not to think about bulking or cutting. Eat for performance. Eat hard, but eat clean. Train hard. Get rest. Essentially what it all boiled down too
I think you are on the right track pdu. I don't think your workout regimen is half bad either. Id talk to mescalean about incorporating some Olympic lifts in your training possibly. They are great
On a side note: I find my trainers kind of funny. When they sense an overwhelming bitch fest about a certain exercise, it seems to make its way into daily workouts often. Lol. So everyone started bitching about running and how we hate it. Well, I've been doing a lot of running lately 
The other day it was 50 strict pullups, 100 pushups, followed by a 5k run
No heavy weight that day, but man my chest was shot
And yes you are right...some of the workouts are down right sinister. Our trainers make a lot of their own programming, but we do the benchmark ones too. Hero wods are usually the toughest. One of the hardest for me was one called "the seven"
"D.T." Is another hard one but I really like it. All barbell work. Very tough
Soon I will be attempting "Kalsu". It's legendary for being a very mentally and physically challenging workout.
I have to say, that's another thing I like about this crossfit. I love that pushing myself beyond my limits shit. The navy seal hell week type shit. I thrive to be tested that way. There is a sick satisfaction in surviving some of these workouts. I've had to throw in the towel on many because my form was about to go to shit. Attempt the same workout 3 months later and I kill it. Very satisfying
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Edited by Masked (06/30/15 04:42 AM)
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Mescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 6,755
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Bulk or Cut [Re: Masked]
#21876601 - 06/30/15 05:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I love how multiple users repeat what I have said about crossfit (not bashing it but where it actually lacks) and it continues to just get denied denied. It's like arguing religion for christ sake with some people
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Masked
The Nutter


Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 8,979
Loc: Canada
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I love how it will obviously always be the same circle jerk on these boards and somehow this is validation for you
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MR14

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 4,830
Loc:
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Re: Bulk or Cut [Re: PDU]
#21876630 - 06/30/15 05:28 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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If you haven't joined a gym already I would sign up. I find training with people motivating and you get to know everyone and can potentially find a training partner to train with (Plus its good to learn from people with more experience than you)
IMO , What you need is high volume training & frequency.
Example, I train for around 90 minutes weight lifting, first exercise focus is on compound movement and following exercises for hypertrophy.
If you have mastered technique for bench / deadlift / squat / ohp you should have no problem increasing strength & muscle size in a calorie surplus. Progressively overload each session, i.e more weight, reps, sets, exercises.
I remember when I started years ago I was determined to gain size and I would train really hard and push myself, after training I would make sure I hit my calorie & macro targets and make sure I get enough sleep (Recover for the next training session).
Disregard love handles & a little extra fat gain, once the strength and size come around you will be better off than had you stopped bulking and started cutting.
3 days a week isn't enough.... 5 days would be best, 2 days off rest per week is plenty.
If you are forced to train 3 days a week only then usually full body upper/lower split is best program (Do some googling)
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Masked
The Nutter


Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 8,979
Loc: Canada
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Re: Bulk or Cut [Re: MR14]
#21876636 - 06/30/15 05:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I would train really hard and push myself, after training I would make sure I hit my calorie & macro targets and make sure I get enough sleep (Recover for the next training session).
Some solid advice
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PDU
travel kid vs.amerika



Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 10,675
Loc: beautiful BC
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: Bulk or Cut [Re: MR14]
#21876863 - 06/30/15 07:24 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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MR14 said: If you haven't joined a gym already I would sign up. I find training with people motivating and you get to know everyone and can potentially find a training partner to train with (Plus its good to learn from people with more experience than you)
I live outside of town and have a basic homegym set up (barbell, bench, squat rack) - I am very glad to workout at home and don't plan on making the switch anytime soon.
Quote:
If you have mastered technique for bench / deadlift / squat / ohp you should have no problem increasing strength & muscle size in a calorie surplus. Progressively overload each session, i.e more weight, reps, sets, exercises.
I can't claim to have mastered any of them - but I am becoming comfortable with all of them.
I am past the point where I would be able to overload every session. I add weight every 3 sessions/once per week (5lbs).
Quote:
3 days a week isn't enough.... 5 days would be best, 2 days off rest per week is plenty.
If you are forced to train 3 days a week only then usually full body upper/lower split is best program (Do some googling)
Everything I have read/watched indicates otherwise. A 3 day fullbody workout has more time under tension for all body parts than a split. Time under tension is what a novice needs in order to build strength first.
Quote:
Should I train full-body or a body-part split? For the first several months of weight training, beginners can expect to raise the weight they are lifting in a linear progression, without any increased rest time needed - this means you will get regularly stronger day after day.
Beginners to weight training are defined by how quickly they can recover from exercise. For this reason, as a beginner, it is best to get as much work in as possible each week. If you do a full-body routine three times per week, that means you're training your entire body roughly 12 times per month (144 times per year). A body-part split, hitting different body parts over a week is going to train your whole body one (maybe two) times per week, which is 4-8 times per month (48-96 times per year).
This review suggests strength gains in beginners are optimized by training three times a week. As one gains more experience and ability, a two-day split (like push/pull or upper/lower) is suggested as the optimal set-up.
Reddit FAQ with links.
Point taken though - I will switch programs when i've stalled with what I am doing. I've stated that I am not planning on switching programs until the end of summer at the earliest. I am happy with the progress i've been making.
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Mescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 6,755
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Bulk or Cut [Re: Masked]
#21878561 - 06/30/15 03:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Masked said: I love how it will obviously always be the same circle jerk on these boards and somehow this is validation for you 
Couldn't I called crossfit the same thing though?
and i did not see before that op was only going 3 days a week wtf man definetly not enough. What helped me gain size was a 3 way split with compounds followed by aesthetic work such as curls or tris. 3 day split as in chest shoulder tri, then back bi's and forearms, then legs and core then repeat for another 3 days with 1 day of rest.
-------------------- FREE BURKE
Edited by Mescalean (06/30/15 03:18 PM)
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Masked
The Nutter


Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 8,979
Loc: Canada
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I suppose fitness in general, like any large movement or following, is going to be plagued with different ideologies and clicky circle jerks In this tiny subsection of the Internet called the "physical and mental well being" shroomery forum, your circle jerk outnumbers my solo jerk. and again, if this is somehow validation for your opinions, well all the power to you friend 
PDU: I work out 3 days a week on average. The odd time I shock the system and go 5 to 7 days straight and take a week off after. But in general, I work out 3 days a week on average
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