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Anonymous #1
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Re: Bulk or Cut [Re: Masked]
#21861755 - 06/26/15 09:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Masked said:

It's very clear many of you are typical 21 year old know it alls with no real experience besides what you lie about on a message board 
yeah just terrible advice for good results. Eat clean, eat lots, take a multi vitamin, get lots of rest, make sure macros are in check, use a protein supplement, lift heavy, workout hard to failure and try to create some variety in your workouts. yeah, terrible advice for results 
and we both know you are the biggest joke of them all mescalean. The only thing you have any knowledge in is being a junkie and living with mom lol
cheers
You were not flexing in your begin picture but from knowing the body pretty well I can tell you made ok at best results
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secondorder
Amanda Hug'n'kiss



Registered: 04/05/15
Posts: 532
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Last seen: 9 months, 6 days
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Re: Bulk or Cut [Re: Masked]
#21861764 - 06/26/15 09:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I suppose it's only fair that I critique specific statements that you made:
Quote:
The key is variety. So whatever you are doing, make sure to mix it up a lot and really push yourself to absolute muscle failure each and every workout.
1. Variety is good every once in a while, but in order to get good at something, your body needs a substantial adaptational stimulus, which cannot be achieved very efficiently if you keep changing what you do. The people in this world who are the best at particular things, do those particular things all the time. The people with the best bodies in the world (bodybuilders and physique competitors) tend to use the same exercises over and over again, changing it up only occasionally when adaptation become negligible.
2. The most common cause of injury among athletes is the introduction of a new, intense stimulus. If you don't do bench press very often and you add bench press to your program at maximum intensity and achieve muscular failure, the risk of injury will go through the roof. If you do bench press regularly, all the time, however, your body will adapt to this movement, your muscles, bones and tendons will shape to take the stress of the movement, and you can go heavy without much risk of injury; but this requires consistency and monotony.
3. "absolute muscular failure each and every workout" is one of the stupidest pieces of advice I've ever heard. This is what causes injuries, this is what causes plateaus, this is what causes over-training. Don't get me wrong, there is definitely a time and a place for absolute failure and super high-intensity workouts, but aiming for it every single workout is not a good way to go.
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And there is a misconception about what literally builds muscle. Lifting weights doesn't build muscle. Eating protein doesn't build muscle. What builds muscle is your body's internal system. The only way it can accomplish this is with proper rest and optimal nutrition
I don't really understand what you are suggesting here. The body's internal system wont build you bigger muscles without a) lifting weights to stimulate it and b) increased protein intake to increase protein synthesis in the muscles.
Your statement is like saying "Eyes don't literally see, they merely focus light, and transfer information to the retinal nerve. The thing that does the actual seeing is the visual cortex."
Nobody here is denying that you need to sleep and eat food in order to change your body, but the best stimulus to the body to build muscle mass is lifting weights.
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It's very clear many of you are typical 21 year old know it alls with no real experience besides what you lie about on a message board
I am not 21, and I do not lie on message boards. I also live off both my athletic performances and personal training, so please don't accuse me of having no real experience.
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Mescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 6,755
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Quote:
secondorder said: I suppose it's only fair that I critique specific statements that you made:
Quote:
The key is variety. So whatever you are doing, make sure to mix it up a lot and really push yourself to absolute muscle failure each and every workout.
1. Variety is good every once in a while, but in order to get good at something, your body needs a substantial adaptational stimulus, which cannot be achieved very efficiently if you keep changing what you do. The people in this world who are the best at particular things, do those particular things all the time. The people with the best bodies in the world (bodybuilders and physique competitors) tend to use the same exercises over and over again, changing it up only occasionally when adaptation become negligible.
2. The most common cause of injury among athletes is the introduction of a new, intense stimulus. If you don't do bench press very often and you add bench press to your program at maximum intensity and achieve muscular failure, the risk of injury will go through the roof. If you do bench press regularly, all the time, however, your body will adapt to this movement, your muscles, bones and tendons will shape to take the stress of the movement, and you can go heavy without much risk of injury; but this requires consistency and monotony.
3. "absolute muscular failure each and every workout" is one of the stupidest pieces of advice I've ever heard. This is what causes injuries, this is what causes plateaus, this is what causes over-training. Don't get me wrong, there is definitely a time and a place for absolute failure and super high-intensity workouts, but aiming for it every single workout is not a good way to go.
Quote:
And there is a misconception about what literally builds muscle. Lifting weights doesn't build muscle. Eating protein doesn't build muscle. What builds muscle is your body's internal system. The only way it can accomplish this is with proper rest and optimal nutrition
I don't really understand what you are suggesting here. The body's internal system wont build you bigger muscles without a) lifting weights to stimulate it and b) increased protein intake to increase protein synthesis in the muscles.
Your statement is like saying "Eyes don't literally see, they merely focus light, and transfer information to the retinal nerve. The thing that does the actual seeing is the visual cortex."
Nobody here is denying that you need to sleep and eat food in order to change your body, but the best stimulus to the body to build muscle mass is lifting weights.
Quote:
It's very clear many of you are typical 21 year old know it alls with no real experience besides what you lie about on a message board
I am not 21, and I do not lie on message boards. I also live off both my athletic performances and personal training, so please don't accuse me of having no real experience.
He gets very defensive with criticism man. He already drank the punch.
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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secondorder
Amanda Hug'n'kiss



Registered: 04/05/15
Posts: 532
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Last seen: 9 months, 6 days
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Even if that is the case I think it's important to give everyone the option of open, honest discourse.
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Masked
The Nutter



Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 8,979
Loc: Canada
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First off:
1. If all you do is bodybuild, you are not an "athlete" and please refrain from such a hilarious notion
2. The best body builders and even athletes, certainly do keep their workouts diverse. What you said is just plain stupidity. Of course you need to bench press regularly. But mix it up. Doing bench press over and over again on chest day will bring you to plateaus.
3. The most common cause of injury is introducing new stimulus? What kind of crack are you smoking? Again, you have made it quite clear you are talking out of your ass.
4. Lifting weights only triggers the response for your body to go to work repairing and rebuilding muscle. So of course you need a trigger. My point was, never forget that your BODY does the work. Give it the rest and nutrition it needs to do so. How that can be twisted in any way to be bad advice just proves to me how ridiculous you are being
5. I pity anyone that pays you for any sort of health advice. Now that's the stupidest thing I have ever heard
6. I have put 12 lbs on in 7 months, yet had to throw out my 36" waist jeans and buy 30". So I'm losing inches, losing fat, and putting on 1.7lbs of true lean muscle every month. I'm just getting started. 7 months is fuck all 
So much useless douchey bro nonsense all over this physical forum lately. It's borderline comical if there wasn't so many impressionable kids taking it who don't know any better
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Matt87

Registered: 01/03/15
Posts: 3,339
Loc: Tennessee
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Re: Bulk or Cut [Re: Masked]
#21861902 - 06/26/15 10:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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That analogy about the eyes was pretty slick.
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  Once you understand the way broadly, you see it in all things. -Musashi
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Titus_Pullo


Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 461
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Bulk or Cut [Re: PDU]
#21864247 - 06/27/15 12:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
PDU said: Looking for a second opinion here - I am receiving mixed messages from reddit.
I am doing Ice Cream Fitness (ICF) (full body beginners routine, 3x weekly for 1 month) and follow the workout as specified except swapping skull crushers instead of tricep extensions, and no cable crunches or hyperextensions. - As per recommendations from people in this forum I have added: Dumbbell Fly's and Lateral raises after every workout. I add weight to the major compound lifts every 3 workouts (once per week) although right now can progress DL's every workout.
Current numbers for 5x5:
Bench - 100#  Squat - 175# DL - 240# Row - 90#
Height: 5' 11.5" Weight: 171.2lbs
**Additionally - I usually cycle to work + recreationally (although haven't got into a routine due to lack of work...) Conservative estimate would be 100km of vigorous cycling weekly between now and September.
I was advised to bulk initially - and now people at reddit are calling me fat and saying i should cut to 10-12% BF before bulking. (estimated BF 20-25%)
On top of that - I am confused about how to calculate my TDEE. According to most online calculators I end up with:
Basal Metabolic Rate: 1769 cals/day Body Mass Index: 23.99 TDEE: 2432 cals/day (if i am lifting 3x weekly.)
These projections DO NOT include any cycling or physical labour I am doing. Rough approximations of calorie burn from 1hr cycling is 700cals.
Thoughts on replacing calories burned from Cardio?
It seems to be that If i can calculate maintenance caloric needs using a scale and tracking weight gain/loss for 2-3 weeks, that I should be able to eat at maintenance and count on being in deficit because of the calories burned cycling. At 700 calories per 25kms, that would put me at roughly 2800+ calorie deficit per week, meaning 3/4lbs weight loss.
I don't even know where that puts me if I want to bulk.
Honestly - because it's summer, I have free time for meal prep and am relatively active with work, Id rather bulk now and cut while I am in school. Apparently because I am currently at high BF this would be a bad idea.....
What should i do?

You don't have any muscle. How can you even think of cutting? Also ICF is a shit routine so I'm not surprised by how you look. Switch to Starting Strength and get your numbers up. Do cardio on your "off" days. Once you actually look like you have some muscle mass switch to 5/3/1 and eat at your TDEE. For now you need Eat a lot (BULK, i.e. 500+ calories OVER your TDEE) throughout the day but go to bed HUNGRY, i.e. eat an early dinner. You will burn fat all night long if you do this.
Edited by Titus_Pullo (06/27/15 12:55 PM)
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PDU
travel kid vs.amerika



Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 10,675
Loc: beautiful BC
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Quote:
Titus_Pullo said: You don't have any muscle. How can you even think of cutting?
The purpose of cutting as a "skinnyfat" is due to calorie partitioning. If you have an excess of bodyfat and eat a caloric surplus a higher percentage of the surplus will be allocated to creating fat reserves before lean muscle tissue.
This is why i asked the question.
However, the difference this makes in someone who is 15% and someone who is 25%bf is possibly fairly negligible.
Quote:
Also ICF is a shit routine so I'm not surprised by how you look.
Right - so if i did SS for 3 weeks, my physique would be vastly different than that posted? Give me a break. I actually started with SS for the first couple weeks before taking a layoff to get through finals and then starting up on ICF.
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Switch to Starting Strength and get your numbers up.
Please explain why SS is better than ICF?
(they are the same, minus accessories!)
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Do cardio on your "off" days.
Check.
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Once you actually look like you have some muscle mass switch to 5/3/1 and eat at your TDEE.
Like I said - ive had a hard time calculating TDEE due to varying levels of intensity at work, and all around inconsistent schedule with everything but lifting.
Why 5/3/1? I've heard good things about madcow and texas method and heard 5/3/1 critisized because it is too low volume. How about PHUL or a 6 day "brosplit"?
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For now you need Eat a lot (BULK, i.e. 500+ calories OVER your TDEE)
Check - gained too much flab.
Anyways - how would you determine when to stop bulking?... Is it unwise to do a slow bulk from now until next April?...
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MoxyOx
Grazin'

Registered: 10/08/10
Posts: 1,439
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Re: Bulk or Cut [Re: PDU]
#21864862 - 06/27/15 03:55 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Going to have to side with Masked, regardless of his contempt towards me. An athlete does not focus solely on lifting weights, it's a multifaceted discipline. Getting "big" is just plain stupid and unhealthy. I know someone who has good looking muscles but all it is is glamour. He has no speed, endurance or flexibility. I smoked the kid in a sprint off a couple months ago too.
-------------------- No one behind, no one ahead. The path the ancients cleared has closed. And the other path, everyone's path, easy and wide, goes nowhere. I am alone and find my way.
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Mescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 6,755
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Bulk or Cut [Re: MoxyOx] 1
#21864902 - 06/27/15 04:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
MoxyOx said: Going to have to side with Masked, regardless of his contempt towards me. An athlete does not focus solely on lifting weights, it's a multifaceted discipline. Getting "big" is just plain stupid and unhealthy. I know someone who has good looking muscles but all it is is glamour. He has no speed, endurance or flexibility. I smoked the kid in a sprint off a couple months ago too.
Kid just sounds un-athletic, Linebackers run 40 yards dashes at an average of 4.6 seconds I'd say without looking it up. The kid you raced was probably just naturally slow. While I'm 6'1" 218 lbs I guarantee I'd smoke most in agility drills such as ladders cones and dot drills. It's all about genes like masked did say. some people are just naturally spastic. Now that I think about I wouldn't consider my size big I'm actually pretty happy with where I'm at for now. I have friends who are 5'7ish 160-170 and think huge yet I look at some of my friends who are the 6'5" 275 12 percent body fat genetic freaks and feel fucking tiny. It's kind of a relativity thing too. OP How tall did you say you were again? another important roll (genetics once again) for instance my father is 6'1" 240 lbs and has been puting up 315 on bench for reps throughout his laters years (50's), people say im the spitting image of him and admittedly it is obvious I came from that mans balls when we stand side by side. Is your dad a big guy?
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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PDU
travel kid vs.amerika



Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 10,675
Loc: beautiful BC
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Quote:
Mescalean said:
Quote:
MoxyOx said: Going to have to side with Masked, regardless of his contempt towards me. An athlete does not focus solely on lifting weights, it's a multifaceted discipline. Getting "big" is just plain stupid and unhealthy. I know someone who has good looking muscles but all it is is glamour. He has no speed, endurance or flexibility. I smoked the kid in a sprint off a couple months ago too.
Kid just sounds un-athletic, Linebackers run 40 yards dashes at an average of 4.6 seconds I'd say without looking it up. The kid you raced was probably just naturally slow. While I'm 6'1" 218 lbs I guarantee I'd smoke most in agility drills such as ladders cones and dot drills. It's all about genes like masked did say. some people are just naturally spastic. Now that I think about I wouldn't consider my size big I'm actually pretty happy with where I'm at for now. I have friends who are 5'7ish 160-170 and think huge yet I look at some of my friends who are the 6'5" 275 12 percent body fat genetic freaks and feel fucking tiny. It's kind of a relativity thing too. OP How tall did you say you were again? Is your dad a big guy?
5'11.5"
My dad is 6' maybe 6'1" and really lanky. I am much better proportioned/muscular than him - although he is still an endurance athlete in his 60's.
-------------------- GO OUTSIDE.
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PDU
travel kid vs.amerika



Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 10,675
Loc: beautiful BC
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: Bulk or Cut [Re: MoxyOx]
#21865187 - 06/27/15 05:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
MoxyOx said: An athlete does not focus solely on lifting weights, it's a multifaceted discipline. Getting "big" is just plain stupid and unhealthy.
Not sure if you are directing this towards me, or just in response to the hate towards masked from other posters.
If it is directed to me (op) ill respond:
I am a pretty decent/strong cyclist who enjoys climbing and endurance. Additionally I have the ability to be a decent runner/swimmer when i train for those sports.
I have no desire to be big - but would like balance to my upperbody to match my strong legs. You are far more likely to find me cycling cross country or long-distance hiking than posing/BB'ing or keeping low BF%.
*shrugs*
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MoxyOx
Grazin'

Registered: 10/08/10
Posts: 1,439
Loc:
Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
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Re: Bulk or Cut [Re: PDU]
#21867146 - 06/28/15 03:31 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Defending Masked, not attacking you.
-------------------- No one behind, no one ahead. The path the ancients cleared has closed. And the other path, everyone's path, easy and wide, goes nowhere. I am alone and find my way.
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secondorder
Amanda Hug'n'kiss



Registered: 04/05/15
Posts: 532
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Last seen: 9 months, 6 days
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Re: Bulk or Cut [Re: Masked]
#21867357 - 06/28/15 06:44 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
1. If all you do is bodybuild, you are not an "athlete" and please refrain from such a hilarious notion
I hate to turn this into an ego flare, but you keep slumping into insecure 'you vs other people' and ad hominem attacks.. I am not a bodybuilder, nor have I ever been, I don't know why you assumed this. I am a semi-professional discus thrower who has competed at both the Olympics and world championships, a good part of my living comes from this sport. Had I not learnt enough to train smarter and harder than the drug-cheats who occasionally out-perform me, I wouldn't be able to continue competing at this level.
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2. The best body builders and even athletes, certainly do keep their workouts diverse. What you said is just plain stupidity. Of course you need to bench press regularly. But mix it up. Doing bench press over and over again on chest day will bring you to plateaus.
Not if you do it right, many people have consistently increased a single lift, or a single skill upon performing it monotonously for long periods of time: Andrei Malanichev is the best squatter in the world at the moment, and all he does for his squat workouts is squat, and has been doing so for pretty much his whole career. And no, not really, most of the best athletes change one or two specific stimuli every now and then, but keep most of their workouts the same. Again, I never said a change of stimulus can't help, indeed I think it can, but don't go over the top, mixing things up a lot is not a good idea; this is bad advice:
Quote:
So whatever you are doing, make sure to mix it up a lot and really push yourself to absolute muscle failure each and every workout.
Quote:
3. The most common cause of injury is introducing new stimulus? What kind of crack are you smoking? Again, you have made it quite clear you are talking out of your ass.
Please read my posts carefully, I said "The most common cause of injury among athletes is the introduction of a new, intense stimulus." If you are to introduce a new stimulus, then it's quite stupid to really push yourself to absolute muscle failure each and every workout. You should only be pushing yourself to muscle failure on movements that you are well conditioned for, from a lot of recent training. If a sprinter wants to start lifting weights to improve their speed, it's not a good idea to "really push yourself to absolute muscle failure each and every workout." They are likely to tear their muscles in half. A sprinter can push themselves in a sprinting workout, because they sprint all the time, but to lay down on a bench press and "really push themselves to absolute muscle failure" will likely result in a season ending injury. If you are introducing a new stimulus, take it easy, and build up on the movement slowly over a long period of time. A new stimulus is something that will cause your body to adapt, meaning your body is not already adapted to doing it... meaning your body is not ready to handle high stress in an unfamiliar movement... meaning injury risk is increased... this should be fairly easy to follow.
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4. Lifting weights only triggers the response for your body to go to work repairing and rebuilding muscle. So of course you need a trigger. My point was, never forget that your BODY does the work. Give it the rest and nutrition it needs to do so. How that can be twisted in any way to be bad advice just proves to me how ridiculous you are being
Your 'point' was quite unclear. At least to me. It was either a cliche truism, or a false statement.
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5. I pity anyone that pays you for any sort of health advice. Now that's the stupidest thing I have ever heard
Ouch man, ouch. Do you get off trying to hurt people's feelings over the internet? I'm trying my best to keep this discussion productive, but apparently you'd rather be immature and petty.
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6. I have put 12 lbs on in 7 months, yet had to throw out my 36" waist jeans and buy 30". So I'm losing inches, losing fat, and putting on 1.7lbs of true lean muscle every month. I'm just getting started. 7 months is fuck all 
Good for you man, I am happy for you, but why is this relevant to whether or not a particular set of statements are correct or not?
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So much useless douchey bro nonsense all over this physical forum lately. It's borderline comical if there wasn't so many impressionable kids taking it who don't know any better
What makes you think you're not contributing to this "bro nonsense". Please re-read your large post and tell me that it doesn't contain "bro nonsense" and bad advice. It wasn't void of any good advice, but could have done without certain gems like "whatever you are doing, make sure to mix it up a lot and really push yourself to absolute muscle failure each and every workout."
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Masked
The Nutter



Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 8,979
Loc: Canada
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You fell into the category of blasting me with a "holier than thou" attitude from the sidelines when I wasn't even talking to you. I told OP my personal achievements (which aren't extraoridnary by any means, but I have had satisfactory personal results).
Only when I said my piece to you, is when you decided to actually reply with some substance. I suppose I was a little hot under the collar, but I'm so sick of some of the nonsense being spread all over this board. I apologize for being hot under the collar with you right out of the gate tho
I guess I should have clarified that of course common sense comes into play. If you don't ever bench, of course it would be silly to go to absolute failure with it for your first time. This is just common sense where I'm from I suppose I shouldn't have assumed people would know this
But I still agree to disagree with you. In general, with movements you are familiar with, it should be done to failure. When the muscle is torn, spent and exhausted, that triggers the body to go "whoa fuck. Houston we have a problem. Repair that bitch and repair it with some style" 
I mean, I've followed a lot of different training regimens over my life. So far this has been the most effect for ME. But like I said earlier, and people surprisingly agreed with, genes play such a factor. And even tho I have had satisfactory results with an average of 1.7lbs of lean muscle gain a month....it's only been 7 months. I MAY start to plateau at some point, aesthetically speaking mostly. Id be lying if asthetics didn't matter to me even a little bit.
Right now, I eat and train like a hard working athlete for performance. That's what I have done from the beginning. As I packed on the muscle, that fat burnt away. As I packed on muscle, I burnt more fat when sleeping. When I toyed with my diet to "lean", my strength and performance suffered greatly. I figure, I'll just keep training hard and eating hard, but eating clean.
I'm a smaller guy, so weight and measurements are very subjective. Ultimately, for my frame, if I can keep putting on lean gains, I think I'd genetically Max out around 185lbs
Here is an athelete than can move some impressive weight on Olympic lifts and is very fast with some good endurance. He is also 5'7 like me and weighs 185lbs

I wouldn't mind looking like that one day. Lol. Who knows tho. That type of body doesn't happen overnight
PDU: I think you are on a good track. I just don't think you should be focusing on cutting or bulking persay. I guess if I was forced to pick one and it was black and white, which it isn't, Id say I'm telling you to bulk. I just offered some advice on what has helped me 
Mescalean and oxy: thank you for showing some class. I will try to return the gesture. 
At the end of the day, we are ALL trying to be the best we can be and achieve our personal goals. We all have different approaches, different mentalities, different training....but we all are on the same path of striving for something more. So as much as some of you piss me off :p, I still to you all
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Masked
The Nutter



Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 8,979
Loc: Canada
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Re: Bulk or Cut [Re: Masked]
#21874172 - 06/29/15 03:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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To bring some humour and go way off topic:
This is what an "aspiring" athlete, who got to much 32C sun, looks like today:

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PDU
travel kid vs.amerika



Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 10,675
Loc: beautiful BC
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: Bulk or Cut [Re: Masked]
#21874531 - 06/29/15 05:25 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Decent reply Masked. I appreciate the initial posts aswell btw. I took alot of the information from it and never took the controversial comments literally as many here have - No need to argue.
Oddly enough since i posted about being fat, i've become less bloated and look alot better. *shrugs* ... Maybe it's from the creatine?
-------------------- GO OUTSIDE.
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Mescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 6,755
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Bulk or Cut [Re: Masked]
#21874852 - 06/29/15 06:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Masked said: You fell into the category of blasting me with a "holier than thou" attitude from the sidelines when I wasn't even talking to you. I told OP my personal achievements (which aren't extraoridnary by any means, but I have had satisfactory personal results).
Only when I said my piece to you, is when you decided to actually reply with some substance. I suppose I was a little hot under the collar, but I'm so sick of some of the nonsense being spread all over this board. I apologize for being hot under the collar with you right out of the gate tho
I guess I should have clarified that of course common sense comes into play. If you don't ever bench, of course it would be silly to go to absolute failure with it for your first time. This is just common sense where I'm from I suppose I shouldn't have assumed people would know this
But I still agree to disagree with you. In general, with movements you are familiar with, it should be done to failure. When the muscle is torn, spent and exhausted, that triggers the body to go "whoa fuck. Houston we have a problem. Repair that bitch and repair it with some style" 
I mean, I've followed a lot of different training regimens over my life. So far this has been the most effect for ME. But like I said earlier, and people surprisingly agreed with, genes play such a factor. And even tho I have had satisfactory results with an average of 1.7lbs of lean muscle gain a month....it's only been 7 months. I MAY start to plateau at some point, aesthetically speaking mostly. Id be lying if asthetics didn't matter to me even a little bit.
Right now, I eat and train like a hard working athlete for performance. That's what I have done from the beginning. As I packed on the muscle, that fat burnt away. As I packed on muscle, I burnt more fat when sleeping. When I toyed with my diet to "lean", my strength and performance suffered greatly. I figure, I'll just keep training hard and eating hard, but eating clean.
I'm a smaller guy, so weight and measurements are very subjective. Ultimately, for my frame, if I can keep putting on lean gains, I think I'd genetically Max out around 185lbs
Here is an athelete than can move some impressive weight on Olympic lifts and is very fast with some good endurance. He is also 5'7 like me and weighs 185lbs

I wouldn't mind looking like that one day. Lol. Who knows tho. That type of body doesn't happen overnight
PDU: I think you are on a good track. I just don't think you should be focusing on cutting or bulking persay. I guess if I was forced to pick one and it was black and white, which it isn't, Id say I'm telling you to bulk. I just offered some advice on what has helped me 
Mescalean and oxy: thank you for showing some class. I will try to return the gesture. 
At the end of the day, we are ALL trying to be the best we can be and achieve our personal goals. We all have different approaches, different mentalities, different training....but we all are on the same path of striving for something more. So as much as some of you piss me off :p, I still to you all
Telling you right now that top 1 percent of crossfitters don't do just crossfit to get a body like that, I'd tell the same shit to any body builder who thinks mark wallburg really uses his supplement line to put on 40 lbs for a role.... This is maybe where OP can switch it up though. Hypertrophy (later on build strength first dude) to bulk up and HIIT when he wants to cut up. Personally just because it's summer and my appetite always decreases I figured move to full body workouts to lean out a little bit. Personally I couldn't bulk this time of year, the amount of food I would need to eat plus 110 degree weather would make me feel, whats a word better than gross?
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The Nutter


Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 8,979
Loc: Canada
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So all the crossfitters who, when interviewed, explain they got this way from crossfitting are ALL lying? Sure, some of them have done other things
I mean, we are all human with extensive backgrounds in all sorts of things of course. So if and when I get like that from crossfit, are you going to say it wasn't the crossfit, it was the years of wrestling or my time with martial arts, or the years I spent p90x ing?
Flawed reasoning in my opinion. It's like you intentionally want to live with horse blinders on because the overall picture is to much for your ego to handle.
I guess we will see where this takes me in another year I will try to maintain putting on an average of 1.7 of lean muscle per month until I genetically max out
The beauty of crossfit's true philosophy is, if it can make me stronger and better than I was yesterday, it will make its way into programming. There are no boundaries in this aspect. Which is why I have been more successful with it compared to any of my past training regimens.
But like you agreed, so much of it comes down to genetics. I look forward to finding my genetic peak if I can
This is for sure a new road, only 7 months, but it has been the most successful and enjoyable road I have taken yet(fitness wise)
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Masked
The Nutter


Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 8,979
Loc: Canada
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Yeah I can't imagine dealing with that kind of hot weather for long stretches. I'm lucky in that regard.
I agree with your comments on using hiit to cut
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