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 Shroomism
Space Travellin
 
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension 
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 Signing a Record Deal... 
#2171635 - 12/11/03 09:09 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ok, my band is at the point where we are getting offers from record labels and receiving lots of emails from people wanting to play our music (few examples: french radio station, metal compilation album in europe, japanese radio, etc)
The most recent one I received was from an indie label..RPM Recordings in Tampa Florida, who is interested in distributing and promoting our material worldwide through popular stores and whatnot. They sent me a contract basically stating that we give them $1,000 and a copy of our material plus artwork, and they will promote and distribute through amazon, tower records, best buy, etc, etc. We would receive 20% of all cd sales. If that sells 6,000 copies, they would take us in to record a full EP under a normal contract with touring support and distribution.
Now I know you are supposed to hire an entertainment lawyer to negotiate music contracts, but I called the owner of this label and tried to negotiate with him.. asking if he would record us for free and distribute under a loan type of contract, where they would take the price out of our album sales. I probably shouldn't have tried, but he said he would consider it, if he saw that our material had a big enough market to not be considered a major 'risk'.
Maybe I'm jumping the gun a little.. I mean better offers are bound to come around if we let it ripen a little. The main thing I am concerned about is if we should wait to get a label backing us to record an album, or record on our own in the meantime using a friend's studio. I am aware of the pros and cons of each scenario. Ideally we are looking for full label support, from studio to touring and promotion. Maybe I should wait until that option opens up.. I mean I don't know how many times I've read never take the first record offer. But this is the second..
Ok I'm rambling.. but I'm as excited as I am nervous and wary. Should I bother hiring a lawyer with money I don't have to negotiate this contract? Should I wait for a better one to come along? Should we record a pro demo on our own? Advice sincerely appreciated from anyone with experience in the music industry.
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Papaver
Madmin Emeritus?
Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 26,880
Loc: Radio Free Tibet!
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 Re: Signing a Record Deal... [Re: Shroomism]
#2171658 - 12/11/03 09:24 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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That's cool that you are getting some recognition, but my advice would be to never go with a deal where you have to pay up front -- there will be better offers! 
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Signing a Record Deal... [Re: Papaver]
#2171664 - 12/11/03 09:27 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah...solid advice... they should be the ones doing the paying! We *will* wait for a better offer to come around.
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 orizon
shroomin bliss
Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 876
Last seen: 19 years, 1 month
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 Re: Signing a Record Deal... [Re: Shroomism]
#2171677 - 12/11/03 09:36 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thats tight...Im an inspiring musician and an audio engineer right now (pro tools, DP, Amek 9081i, Mackie, nieve's, SSL9000 etc... just some of the consoles I record artists on) tryin to work my way up....but anyways, dont get tied up in a contract that might jack you in the future. Alot of artists have lost the rights to there own songs from signing contracts that they werent clear of the terms of. They will jack you if you see you are vulnerable. Unless you are thinkin about not playin music anymore, then I say wait until you get a prime deal..dont jump the gun in other words. Take these deals as a complement that your music has alot of potential...on that note, do you have any demos?
Peace, Orizon
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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 Re: Signing a Record Deal... [Re: orizon]
#2171695 - 12/11/03 09:50 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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shitty old recordings on mp3.. www.zebox.com/skultamaphon/music
and the website - www.geocities.com/skultamaphon
yeah.. don't want to get fucked without lube in a contract, and I've read a lot of horror stories. Done my share of research, so I know what to watch out for.
So I guess the best answer is to studio record a 4 song demo ourselves.. and let that do the talking. Spread it far and wide.. there is already a hungry audience out there waiting for new recordings.. the big guys will take notice eventually, and we'll keep refusing until we get a primo deal  From what I hear, record deals basically come down to how much the label wants you (how big of a fanbase or potential fanbase you have), versus how much you want the label. The more they want you, the more leeway you have to negotiate terms and get a better deal. So until then it's the underground for lyfe biotch 
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Blastrid
e l e m e n t al i t y
Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 3,323
Loc: The Desert
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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Re: Signing a Record Deal... [Re: Shroomism]
#2171731 - 12/11/03 10:16 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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yeah that sounds like a better future for you.
Indie labels seem to be the way to go, they are more willing to put longterm full support into you than the big ones are. And you'll see more of your sales thru indie labels. If you record with them, they'll no doubt have more rights and % toward sales and touring. But if you do it, and shop it around, all it'll cost you is recording, then the label has their mitts in less of your stash. Only manufacturing and distribution.
sounds like you know what to do
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Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
n. 3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'. Used as both an insult or an expletive.
ex. Blastrid!
Stereopattern <--My music.
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Phoshaman
Litteringannnnddddd?
Registered: 06/01/99
Posts: 1,557
Loc: FLAHHHIDAAA
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: Signing a Record Deal... [Re: Blastrid]
#2172236 - 12/12/03 03:09 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Definitely get a lawyer.
And orizon... you actually OWN an SSL? Jesus H.
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orizon
shroomin bliss
Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 876
Last seen: 19 years, 1 month
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Re: Signing a Record Deal... [Re: Phoshaman]
#2172322 - 12/12/03 04:18 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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No....I dont own any of those above analog consoles....They are thousands of dollars man!!! they are just some consoles that the studio I work for has. I won a studio but it is small scale personal digital with a Triton-Roland JP8080, V Drums---- for triggers, a few other various racks and outboard Reberb units, Virus INDIGO<<<TIGHT!!, a motu MIDI interface and I have Pro Tools LE but prefer DIgital perfomer for personal use. I was just listing some things I am familair with recording on just to ensure that shroomism is gettin advice from a credible guy who's familiar with the industry. I think the 48 track SSL 9000J with patchpay track machine etc.... cost over 250,000!!! Too much for me....My personal studio with the G4 included is probably under 10,000 but is still capable of being a professional studio.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Signing a Record Deal... [Re: Blastrid]
#2172513 - 12/12/03 07:20 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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indie labels would be the way to go if we had some cash to start with. That way we could cover recording and copy cost and keep a larger percentage of sales.. I mean we could do it all ourselves and get 100% profit, but they have avenues of distribution and promotion that are far exceeding what I alone can do. Most indie labels will either pay for you to tour, or record, but not both. They will either support your touring expenses and promo, or maybe record you and not promote at all.
Number one is that we are dirt poor. We can't afford to put ourselves on tour, or record in the studio, if we had the money it would have been done years ago. So this has forced us to focus only on the music. But with the position we are in.. a major label seems to be the best option for a long term thing, as it would support studio time as well as touring and promotion.. almost all majors do. But we are still open to an indie label.. if it would support our tour and promo, that would be sweet.. but we'd most likely still have to get recorded (not such a hard task), make 1000s of copies of cds on our own money, etc.. but that might be the best option right now, until we become more established.. get our name out there with an indie label first..
I don't know.. I'm just talking out loud, weighing out options. We don't care about money so much as spreading our music around. I mean getting fucked isn't cool, but making money isn't that important to us. To be payed enough to live just to tour or record is satisfaction enough.. a dream come true even.
so I guess we'll just keep sticking it out and doing things the hard way. That is part of our style and nature. Record a fat new demo at friend's studio, and spread it far and wide, then the pieces will fall into place. Thanks for your advice everyone, I think I know what to do.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Signing a Record Deal... [Re: Shroomism]
#2172534 - 12/12/03 07:41 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said:
To be payed enough to live just to tour or record is satisfaction enough.. a dream come true even.
That is all I want as well. The oppurtunity to share music with others, recording it and playing it every night, and being able to sustain myself by doing so. I mean, hell, the food doesn't even have to be great, just as long as the necessities are covered and I don't have to fucking work after things pick up...
You guys are about two years ahead of my band. hehe. I'm in Norway now, of course, up until this summer, and I sort of made the decision that it would be better for the band in the long run for this years wait, so that we could all really develop our abillites on our instruments and so that some good song ideas could be written.
So right now I have to be happy with mastering my techinque, working on songs, and recording whenever my guitarist doesn't fucking cut up his hands trying to play Lake Bodom and then they get all filled with puss.
But ja, I can't wait to come back to the States and start playing fucking every day and getting the practice in so we can go out and play on the weekends and start on down the long road.
Best of luck, man, and take us out on tour sometime.
Peace.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
 
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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You've got a special place with us on tour..backstage passes for all shroomerites! And when you guys get your shit together you can tour with us 
On a side note we'll be hooking up with this NJ band.. Kalopsia.. possibly playing some shows and touring with them after we find them a drummer.
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Blastrid
e l e m e n t al i t y
Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 3,323
Loc: The Desert
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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Re: Signing a Record Deal... [Re: Shroomism]
#2172724 - 12/12/03 10:15 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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I wish you luck Shroomism!
hahahah... whenever I see "Skultamophon", I think of the Simpsons episode where Homer says "Saxamaphone" like the opening melody to Beethoven's 5th....
hahaha sorry
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Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
n. 3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'. Used as both an insult or an expletive.
ex. Blastrid!
Stereopattern <--My music.
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Re: Signing a Record Deal... [Re: Shroomism]
#2174130 - 12/13/03 02:26 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hey, when I get a band together, will you give your record company one of our demos(you can listen to it yourself to make sure it's good)? Sorry to leech off your success, it's just that I too share in the dream of getting paid to tour and record my own music.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Re: Signing a Record Deal... [Re: silversoul7]
#2174151 - 12/13/03 02:54 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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READ THE FOLLOWING BOOK: "Confessions of a Record Producer" By Moses Avalon. www.mosesavalon.com It's necessary. DO NOT sign any contract without in the VERY least reading this book, and please reconsider your hesitance at hiring an experienced and qualified entertainment lawyer (one with experience in the recording industry.)
I took a course called Music Marketing and Management. The basic jist of it was this : "the industry was literally founded through organized crime, many of the practices are barely legal. They will fuck you if you let them so be as informed as you possibly can..." We learned a thousand tricks those fuckers use and many of them would be difficult to spot or understand without some prior experience or training in the terminology and the mindset of the industry.
Be careful. Please.
I may have come across as really freaky, but it really upsets me to hear about talented young bands that got taken in, exploited and wasted. Don't let this happen to you.
BTW: your label should NOT be asking YOU to pay THEM. Reputable labels, including indie ones will never do this. NEVER. I smell something suspicious. Don't trust it. Hire a qualified lawyer.
Also, on the website i linked you too it claims that Moses is now offering innexpensive consulations for unsigned or newly signed bands, he knows his shit, take this opportunity if at all possible.
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_cracker
Stranger
Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 1,019
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: Signing a Record Deal... [Re: Shroomism]
#2174156 - 12/13/03 03:02 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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a lot of these independent labels are mostly talk,they talk about how they are gonna push your album,and it's gonna be distributed globaly and this and that and every fucking thing,and then just print up a few thousand CD's and dick around with your money,half the time you're better off selling CD's out of your trunk then going with some of these independet labels. I'm far too fucked up too go into this,or read this thread other than the first post. Just PM me and remind me tomorrow,I'll tell you about it.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Re: Signing a Record Deal... [Re: NiamhNyx]
#2174159 - 12/13/03 03:04 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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One more note: Major labels are NOT the way to go. A reputable, ethical indpendant label is a far superior choice. Don't be fooled, some of them are very successful financially and are willing and capable of doing a lot more for you than you expect. The difference is they won't try and make you use as much money as they can trick you into using, a major will. They are essentially loan sharks, you have to pay every cent of the advance back. Indies offer smaller budgets but very feasible ones. Also, its far better to build a following on an indie then have some real power when facing a major than coming in unknown and more easily exploited.
One of the best producers in the continent, Jack Endino spoke in my MMM course after doing a session demo for us, and told us he can't understand why any band would bother going the major label route when a reputable indie label is far more likely to give you a reasonable deal, and you will end up actually making money there. Unless you're a superstar on a major you're gonna be piss broke.
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_cracker
Stranger
Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 1,019
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: Signing a Record Deal... [Re: Shroomism]
#2174163 - 12/13/03 03:08 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
So I guess the best answer is to studio record a 4 song demo ourselves.. and let that do the talking. Spread it far and wide.. there is already a hungry audience out there waiting for new recordings.. the big guys will take notice eventually, and we'll keep refusing until we get a primo deal From what I hear, record deals basically come down to how much the label wants you (how big of a fanbase or potential fanbase you have), versus how much you want the label. The more they want you, the more leeway you have to negotiate terms and get a better deal. So until then it's the underground for lyfe biotch
Man FUCK A DEMO,seriously,you might as well do a whole CD. for about 2 grand you can get 1,000 professional quality CD's. Pay for the damn studio time,or hell you could just do it in a home studio,I got some shit that you can't even tell the difference,hell I got some tracks I did at home that sound better than some of the tracks in the "real" studio. Just make sure to send it off to a mastering house once you finish recording the album. If you tour,then you really should do that shit.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Signing a Record Deal... [Re: _cracker]
#2174168 - 12/13/03 03:11 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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yeah.. if we're gonna do it ourselves we might as well do a whole album.
I'd help you out silversoul
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Signing a Record Deal... [Re: Blastrid]
#2174656 - 12/13/03 12:21 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Blastrid said:
hahahah... whenever I see "Skultamophon", I think of the Simpsons episode where Homer says "Saxamaphone" like the opening melody to Beethoven's 5th....
hahaha sorry
I sent Insanity over to my keyboardist today, and when he got back online, he says something about how the name "Skultamaphon" always makes him think of of how Homer is "playing" the saxophone and says "Sax-a-ma-phonnnee".
Maybe someday you guys will appear on the Simpsons and they can incorporate that somehow. 
Peace.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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_cracker
Stranger
Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 1,019
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: Signing a Record Deal... [Re: Shroomism]
#2174948 - 12/13/03 02:49 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
yeah.. if we're gonna do it ourselves we might as well do a whole album.
No. If you are gonna do it at all you might as well do a whole album.Now you can go about this two ways,the music way or the business way. You could put out a demo,to shop it around to record labels. (that's all a demo is really for) hope to get signed,bust your ass,find a great deal with a fat advance check,get charged out the ass for the studio time,production (most labels will really screw you pretty much every chance they get) fees,all that shit,and you end up back at square one except now your stuck in a legal contract and your art is in someone else's hands,they can say "I dont like that song,change it and say this" then you pretty much have to. FUCK THAT.
Get some studio time or put together a decent home studio,send it to the mastering house,put out a CD and sell them yourself. This rapper Pastor Troy sold 188,000 CD's out of his trunk in one year,no distribution,no radio play,on word of mouth alone. If you can sell just 1,000 CD's yourself you can get a way better record deal. If the labels see you can make money on your own without their assistance they will have to offer you more. But still be careful,they will screw you whenever possible. I think that you should come up with your own terms and dont settle for any other deals than what you have planned.
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