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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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sadhus and marijuana
    #21713079 - 05/23/15 05:36 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

While in study of spirituality ive come across the sadhus many times, who are basically considered holy men, though when you actually look at how these people live you will see that their main goals in the day are to see how many chilums they can fill with hash and smoke.

...and the texts are never honest about this.

The sadhus themselves will tell you that marijuana use is a spiritual tradition going back thousands of years, so why no mention in the texts?

(I'm of the oppinion that soma is stropharia cubensis, and NOT marijuana, so I don't count soma as mention in the texts)

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: sadhus and marijuana [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21713089 - 05/23/15 05:40 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

....actually there's are fairly strong case for peganum harmala as soma, which I could buy provided that some tryptamine admixture were brewed in with it, which IS possible, tryptamine containing fungi and plants are common in the region...


...but this is about marijuana, not soma.

-E. Borodin


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Re: sadhus and marijuana [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21713173 - 05/23/15 06:35 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I can understand them wanting to fill a chillum with hash, but why would they want to fill a chillum with smoke?  Of course, it probably makes their case for being a holy man if they can reverse the smoke.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: sadhus and marijuana [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #21713195 - 05/23/15 06:46 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

...I meant "see how many chilums they can fill with hash, and smoke it" not fill with hash and smoke....

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: sadhus and marijuana [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21713201 - 05/23/15 06:47 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

...as in they want to see how many chilums full of hash they can smoke...maybe that's worded better...

-E. Borodin


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: sadhus and marijuana [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21713339 - 05/23/15 07:53 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
While in study of spirituality ive come across the sadhus many times, who are basically considered holy men, though when you actually look at how these people live you will see that their main goals in the day are to see how many chilums they can fill with hash and smoke.

...and the texts are never honest about this.

The sadhus themselves will tell you that marijuana use is a spiritual tradition going back thousands of years, so why no mention in the texts?

(I'm of the oppinion that soma is stropharia cubensis, and NOT marijuana, so I don't count soma as mention in the texts)

-E. Borodin




Soma is Aminita Muscaria, not any species of cubensis.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: sadhus and marijuana [Re: Deviate]
    #21713568 - 05/23/15 09:33 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
While in study of spirituality ive come across the sadhus many times, who are basically considered holy men, though when you actually look at how these people live you will see that their main goals in the day are to see how many chilums they can fill with hash and smoke.

...and the texts are never honest about this.

The sadhus themselves will tell you that marijuana use is a spiritual tradition going back thousands of years, so why no mention in the texts?

(I'm of the oppinion that soma is stropharia cubensis, and NOT marijuana, so I don't count soma as mention in the texts)

-E. Borodin




Soma is Aminita Muscaria, not any species of cubensis.





Gordon wasson lied, he know it was s. Cubensis, but he hated hippies, and didn't want soma and India to go through the influx of these people that his publishings about oxoaca brought.

Amanita muscaria does NOT occor in India, it would have to have been imported....

Bos indicus (the sacred cattle of India) are the only cattle whose dung stropharia cubensis grows in, there are monks who build houses, make tooth-paste, etc...from cow-dung....So to think that they would have missed and not used a dinner-plate sized cataphore in their sacred cows dung is absurd.....

So when stropharia cubensis grows in the yard of every ashram (in their sacred cattle's dung) , and amanita muscaria would have to be imported....whats more likley?

Gordon wasson did a great job of proving soma was a mushroom, but he intentionally misidentified the species.

(If soma is not stropharia cubensis, its peganum harmala with tryptamine admixtures)

Ive found sections in the Mahabharata where holy men instruct their students to eat cow dung, now why would they do this? Is it because the dung was crawling with psychedelic mycellium?

This chapter (chapter 11)  from the gita describes a psilocin (or DMT) experiance perfectly, 100%:

(Notice how Vishnu tells Krishna "you are capable of seeing everything, but I must give you divine eyes" what are devine eyes? Was he giving Krishna psilocin fungi in metaphor?)

Whatever you wish to see can be seen all at once in this body. This universal form can show you all that you now desire, as well as whatever you may desire in the future. Everything is here completely.

Chapter 11, Verse 8. But you cannot see Me with your present eyes. Therefore I give to you divine eyes by which you can behold My mystic opulence.

Chapter 11, Verse 9. Sanjaya said: O King, speaking thus, the Supreme, the Lord of all mystic power, the Personality of Godhead, displayed His universal form to Arjuna.

Chapter 11, Verse 10-11. Arjuna saw in that universal form unlimited mouths and unlimited eyes. It was all wondrous. The form was decorated with divine, dazzling ornaments and arrayed in many garbs. He was garlanded gloriously, and there were many scents smeared over His body. All was magnificent, all-expanding, unlimited. This was seen by Arjuna.

Chapter 11, Verse 12. If hundreds of thousands of suns rose up at once into the sky, they might resemble the effulgence of the Supreme Person in that universal form.

Chapter 11, Verse 13. At that time Arjuna could see in the universal form of the Lord the unlimited expansions of the universe situated in one place although divided into many, many thousands.

Chapter 11, Verse 14. Then, bewildered and astonished, his hair standing on end, Arjuna began to pray with folded hands, offering obeisances to the Supreme Lord.

Chapter 11, Verse 15. Arjuna said: My dear Lord Krsna, I see assembled together in Your body all the demigods and various other living entities. I see Brahma sitting on the lotus flower as well as Lord Siva and many sages and divine serpents.

Chapter 11, Verse 16. O Lord of the universe, I see in Your universal body many, many forms--bellies, mouths, eyes--expanded without limit. There is no end, there is no beginning, and there is no middle to all this.

Chapter 11, Verse 17. Your form, adorned with various crowns, clubs and discs, is difficult to see because of its glaring effulgence, which is fiery and immeasurable like the sun.

Chapter 11, Verse 18. You are the supreme primal objective; You are the best in all the universes; You are inexhaustible, and You are the oldest; You are the maintainer of religion, the eternal Personality of Godhead.

Chapter 11, Verse 19. You are the origin without beginning, middle or end. You have numberless arms, and the sun and moon are among Your great unlimited eyes. By Your own radiance You are heating this entire universe.

Chapter 11, Verse 20. Although You are one, You are spread throughout the sky and the planets and all space between. O great one, as I behold this terrible form, I see that all the planetary systems are perplexed.

Chapter 11, Verse 21. All the demigods are surrendering and entering into You. They are very much afraid, and with folded hands they are singing the Vedic hymns.

Chapter 11, Verse 22. The different manifestations of Lord Siva, the Adityas, the Vasus, the Sadhyas, the Visvedevas, the two Asvis, the Maruts, the forefathers and the Gandharvas, the Yaksas, Asuras, and all perfected demigods are beholding You in wonder.

Chapter 11, Verse 23. O mighty-armed one, all the planets with their demigods are disturbed at seeing Your many faces, eyes, arms, bellies and legs and Your terrible teeth, and as they are disturbed, so am I.

Chapter 11, Verse 24. O all-pervading Visnu, I can no longer maintain my equilibrium. Seeing Your radiant colors fill the skies and beholding Your eyes and mouths, I am afraid.

Chapter 11, Verse 25. O Lord of lords, O refuge of the worlds, please be gracious to me. I cannot keep my balance seeing thus Your blazing deathlike faces and awful teeth. In all directions I am bewildered.


-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: sadhus and marijuana [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21713589 - 05/23/15 09:41 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

....there's no way that Arjuna (who I misnamed as Krishna above) was speaking about amanita muscaria....but when you compare this experiance to psilocin, it matches 100%, only DMT or DMT/MAOI could produce these effects outside of psilocin, LSD, or mescaline, now LSD didn't exist, mescaline cacti are new world, and the only ayahuasca ancient Indians could have had would have to have been made from peganum harmala seeds and acacia nilotica, or one of the other DMT containing acacias native to north Africa or western asia...

Again, this was not a soma debate thread, I was looking for cannabis mention in ancient texts used by sadhus, cannabis use is most of their lives, yet the texts fail to mention this....why?

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: sadhus and marijuana [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21714968 - 05/23/15 05:28 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I watched "hippie masala" a documentary on netflix about hippies who moved to India, one is a guy from Europe who became a sadhu and it shows him living in the ashram. They smoke marijuana non-stop, they take care of shrines, they learn spirituality, but basically get to smoke hash and sleep all day. I would gladly give up my western life to go smoke hash, study texts, tend shrines, and be considered a holy man instead of a homeless stoner, it bothers me that the west doesn't have spirituality where its acceptable to give up all your earthly goods, grow dread-locks town to your ass, paint your face, study texts and smoke hash, this IS a legitimate spiritual path, sadhus have practices it for thousands of years (they say this any way), so why this culture doesn't exist in the west?...oh yeah, because in western culture the meaning of life is to produce products, and if you do any that doesn't involve producing a product your seen as a parasite.....

-E. Borodin


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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
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Re: sadhus and marijuana [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21721082 - 05/25/15 02:08 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

i would say it's a great excess to do hashish that often. . mari-j is holy, sacred, healing herb, yet if it's used wrongly it's not; same as anything - a hammer for instance, used for building, etc. is good if done good way.

everything has a place in life, but hash in general is a bit much, what need for it more than once or twice ever?  it's better to keep tolerance low by smoking a while, then taking a few months off, etc., i would say. .

also because saving species is most important thing in world today, as with peace - and so forth - it is good idea to accept what comes one's way, without seeking for it, you know?  like, not seek for anything because everything comes in its time.

what i mean is it's better to be walking.

walk to the store, walk to your friend's house, etc.  the less we consume resources and species life - that is the main good; and while mari-j is healing, once one is healed fully, there's no need to do it in excess. . .

that is my opinion.

in fact, hash oil, golden oil, or what have you in general i would say is unnecessarily much. .

the only reason for it would be if tolerance got really high - and if that's the case, take a few months off it, then tolerance is low again, etc. etc.

it's healing and gets you strong (for cryin' out loud), but i don't view hash quite that way, anyway.  my 2 cents.

now i'll go see what mooji has to say on it, as he's mention in similar threads :smile:


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Re: sadhus and marijuana [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21721086 - 05/25/15 02:09 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

c0sm0nautt:

'I think Mooji makes some valid points, and ultimately he is pointing towards the idea of moderation.'

ya.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: sadhus and marijuana [Re: once in a lifetime] * 1
    #21723741 - 05/26/15 06:47 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I smoke one gram of marijuana flowers and .25g of BHO hash every day as it is....

However I'm working all day, chemistry work is non-stop because my academic studies and my personal studies have combined over the years....

Hash is the one psychedelic that was designated by nature for daily use, it was made to keep man calm, happy, smiling, and healthy through out his daily life.

I use other entheogens for the purposes I'm sure your are using hash for, the difference is if you try to eat psilocybe mushrooms daily, they wont work, same goes for every classic psychedelic, which is either a phenethylamine or a tryptamine (I consider lysergamides tryptamines), THC is a diterpenoid hydrocarbon, it contains no nitrogen and thus is not an amine or an alkaloid, its obviously unique, and to treat it in the same manor as other entheogens may not be appropriate.

When I was young, I would smoke hash and it would be a "Fitz Hugh ludlow-esk" ordeal, now marijuana cant do this to me, even after years of discontinued use, now its a plant symbiote, when you seperate two symbiotic species from one another they do not die, they continue to live, but quite uncomfortably, I can live without marijuana, but when there's no reason to.do so, id rather live with it.


I experianced shamanic initiation, I was killed, dismembered, resurected and reborn, I was also introduced to the first of many fourth dimentional entities...as a scientist, I'm not allowed to.say things like this, though on a spiritual level I cant deny them. I use entheogens for access to these spiritual realms, which MOST people need only to access once or twice, but which the shaman MUST make regular trips to....though ive never used marijuana for this purpose, I don't believe marijuana is even capable of inducing the shamanic States I'm describing...

Marijuana is sacred, but this holy designation does not preclude marijuana from daily use.

There is no spirituality in the west that doesn't also promote materialism....

"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to.a profoundly sick society"-I cant remember the guys name who's quote this is


Moderation is great, and I still use in moderation, marijuana is legal where I live and I'm a registered MMJ patient, I could easily be smoking as much as I wanted too...but I don't need to for the purposes I'm using it for, 1g flowers, .25g BHO extract, thats all I use in a day.

-E. Borodin


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Re: sadhus and marijuana [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21724225 - 05/26/15 09:53 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Cool stuff your pointing out here:strokebeard:
The title says sadhus and mj but you start on the subject of soma and mushrooms.
All good stuff but it is quite curious that no mention of canabis in the texts. Im just speculating here but i know there supposedly refrences to canabis in the bible but over the years and thru translation it isnt clearly referring to canabis. Could this possibly be the case?


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: sadhus and marijuana [Re: Mental Taco]
    #21727791 - 05/27/15 08:35 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

....I really was trying to stay off the whole soma thing, but someone posted "soma was amanita muscaria" and I had to explain my position on why I feel soma could not have been a. Muscaria.

As far as cannabis and the Bible, I cant say because I have not put study into that area yet, but I can say that the "shittah" tree, which the arc of the covenant was made from was an acacia, and was seen as sacred, the acacia candidates contain DMT, plus peganum harmala seeds were already seen as sacred in this region...I'm sure the priests found that peganum harmala and acacia gives you a direct connection to God...the burning Bush was an acacia, Moses would also travel to the top of mount Sinai to speak with God alone, why? Because he was brewing and drinking a DMT/MAOI "tea" made from acacia and peganum harmala....now the priests would keep the sacrificed animals and gifts to God, it was how they made their living...so if they had this drink to connect you to God, they would have kept it secret, as to say "we talk to God, and you pay us to tell you what God says....any way its a work in progress, the theory is still full of holes, but I want to prove the old testament was centered around a DMT/MAOI drink...or perhaps the mushroom.....

....though Democritus wrote that cannabis was occasionally mixed with wine and myrrh to produce visionary States...the 3 wise men were magi and obviously would have been familiar with hash, so I'm sure that cannabis was even present at the birth of Christ...through these three magicians.

Cannabis is the entheogen I pay the least attention to, but if you read the cannabis section of "psychedelics Encyclopedia" by Peter strafford (which I have only skimmed through thus far) it contains a lot of good historical information (I know its an older book, but its still full of great information)

I believe that entheogenic plants are the source of all religions, or that all religions are the exegesis of the psychedelic experiance....

-E. Borodin


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Re: sadhus and marijuana [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21729005 - 05/27/15 02:37 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
...as in they want to see how many chilums full of hash they can smoke...maybe that's worded better...

-E. Borodin




OK, just making sure.


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Re: sadhus and marijuana [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21742730 - 05/30/15 09:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

ah ya, no worrie


to mea 1 gram a month, not of hash but of very high quality kb is a beautiful amt

no need to do more for me; even that is more than plenty


my point is - it's okay to do it every day if that's the lifestyle,


the issue for me is not what's best for mind/body/ healthy organism -



that's very simple to find out, one simply listens to heart and mind as to what is healing, strengthening, or beneficial,


and that guides one perfectly through all life; and simply becoming more quiet to listen to the heart/body is the essential skill in increasing one's ability to, as well as of course discipline in following it out,


for me the main issue is protecting species' life, we're losing about 40-50 a day, when normal rate is give or take 0,


so while there are many beautiful things to do, and mari-j is among the most beautiful experiences ( made more so when life is closer and closer to divine state ),


i practice a mostly accept what comes by, because i know that reducing consumption is the primary way to solve species' lives' predicament.


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Re: sadhus and marijuana [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21743983 - 05/31/15 06:40 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

A whole gram a month?  Might be time to cut back, perhaps check into rehab even.


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Re: sadhus and marijuana [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #21744043 - 05/31/15 07:18 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

These entheogenic plants are our symbiotes.

Ive said this before, but look at the sea- anemones and the clown fish, the clown fish draws in prey for the anemones and the anemones in turn protect and house the clown fish....or another example is the mained wolf and the lobeira tree, the wolf suffers from stomach parasites so it eats lobeira fruit to kill them, and in turn the lobeira trees seeds will not germinate unless they have first passed through an animals digestive system....
...now if you seperate these species from one another, they don't die, they continue to live, but in an extreme degree of discomfort....

...obviously the reason why humans are naturally so unhappy, uncertian and uncomfortable in this existance is because we have been wrenched away from our plant symbiotes, we are the mained wolf in the absence of the lobeira trees alkaloids, or the clown fish with out its anemone....

When you look at entheogen using tribal societies you don't see mental illness, you see happy people, despite living in the Forrest with little but each other, they are happy. Now when you look at western society, the majority of which lives with-out our natural symbiotes, they are miserable, or all seem to have an itch that they are never able to scratch, so they invent synthetic symbiotes like benzodiazapenes or SSRIs, which fail to do the job.

When people criticize my entheogenic lifestyle I must only remind them of the quality of my existance compared to theirs.

-E. Borodin


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