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OfflinePeyoteZen
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The Infinite Moment
    #2171243 - 12/11/03 01:24 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

What do you think?
Time is an illusion?

"The beginnning of the universe is now, for all things are at this moment being created, and the end of the universe is now, for all things are at this moment passing away."
-Alan Watts in "The Spirit of Zen"

I love this qoute, i rushed for a pen as soon as i read over this


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OfflineEvilGir
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Re: The Infinite Moment [Re: PeyoteZen]
    #2171249 - 12/11/03 01:48 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Well waiting for this dam page to load isnt :lol: :lol: :smile:


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Fighting the man the best way I can.


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OfflineEvilGir
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Re: The Infinite Moment [Re: EvilGir]
    #2171251 - 12/11/03 02:09 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

But all time is anyway is the warping of space by gravity this means that only 5% of the univers is governed by time. This is because only 5% of the universe is governed by matter which warps space with its gravity.



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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: The Infinite Moment [Re: PeyoteZen]
    #2171276 - 12/11/03 03:25 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

  It depends on how you look at it.  We are probably the only species on the planet who have any concept of time at all.  With no memory of the past or inkling of the future, our experience would be so much more immediate. Mckenna talked about how the ego suppression of mushrooms gives us "the felt presence of immediate experience". I mean, when all is said and done the only thing that actually exists is right now.  The book BE HERE NOW talks about this.

Interesting thing happened to me and my friend one time.  We were both on ecstacy and having a conversation about this very same thing.  I gave him BE HERE NOW to read because I had found it incredibly significant on my first ecstacy experience.  Anyway, he was flicking through this book and he reads the following:

"at this moment if you set the alarm to get up at 3:47 this morning and when the alarm rings and you get up and turn it off and say: what time is it? you?d say: NOW, Here! Now, where am I? Here!"

He turns to me and says "If it's 3:47 right now I will never forget this".  So we both turned around, looked at the clock, and you guessed it, it was 3:47am. He still talks about it being the moment he "woke up". 

The next time I took E, I was by myself thinking about that whole event that happened, and about how time is really an illusion, and I was looking at my watch and before my eyes the second hand just stopped.  The watch stopped at that precise moment.  And yes it could easily be argued that it was just a coincidence, but it felt very symbolic to me at that time.  :rasta:


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OfflineFrog
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Re: The Infinite Moment [Re: Revelation]
    #2171292 - 12/11/03 04:36 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Revelation said:
With no memory of the past or inkling of the future, our experience would be so much more immediate. Mckenna talked about how the ego suppression of mushrooms gives us "the felt presence of immediate experience".





That describes me! Seriously, my memory of past experiences is seriously warped, and I am not given to thinking about the future. I pretty much live in the "here and now". Talk about chaos. For me, time is a difficult concept.

But anyways, I read something that someone wrote once: "In ADD, time collapses. Time becomes a black hole. To the person with ADD it feels as if everything is happening all at once. This creates a sense of inner turmoil or even panic. The individual loses perspective and the ability to prioritize. He or she is always on the go, trying to keep the world from caving in on top."

So, Revelation, are you saying "time" is a good thing or a bad thing?


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: The Infinite Moment [Re: Frog]
    #2171314 - 12/11/03 05:38 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Well, a lot of gurus and so called enlightened people talk about the benefits of living in the moment. That definition of ADD is interesting because to me it seems like the exact opposite state of mind that that kind of temporal freedom would provide. I'm sure there is a difference between being enlightened and being a person suffering from ADD, unfortunately I am neither so I don't know what that difference is. Hmm. I know that when I meditate what I'm trying to do is focus entirely on the present, to stop those nagging regrets about the past (which I can do nothing about) from sneaking into my mind.

So, Revelation, are you saying "time" is a good thing or a bad thing?

Neither, it just is. Or isn't, if you believe Ram Dass and Eckhart Toll and all those guys. I think there is definitely benefits to be gained from freeing ourselves from our "thought prisons" and living in the now.

Here we are
Here & now
That's all there is
And if it isn't beautiful, man
There's nothing
So you say:
Well, I can't have it beautiful now. But, later! When we get the food home it will be beautiful
Later never exists!

- Ram Dass

There's just something about that old hippy wisdom that I find appealing.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: The Infinite Moment [Re: Revelation]
    #2171321 - 12/11/03 06:01 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Revelation said:
Well, a lot of gurus and so called enlightened people talk about the benefits of living in the moment. That definition of ADD is interesting because to me it seems like the exact opposite state of mind that that kind of temporal freedom would provide. I'm sure there is a difference between being enlightened and being a person suffering from ADD, unfortunately I am neither so I don't know what that difference is. Hmm. I know that when I meditate what I'm trying to do is focus entirely on the present, to stop those nagging regrets about the past (which I can do nothing about) from sneaking into my mind.

So, Revelation, are you saying "time" is a good thing or a bad thing?

Neither, it just is. Or isn't, if you believe Ram Dass and Eckhart Toll and all those guys. I think there is definitely benefits to be gained from freeing ourselves from our "thought prisons" and living in the now.





Sorry (sort of) to drag ADHD into the discussion, but I think the reason I relate to your concept is because of how I am affected.

But, at the same time, I have also learned to let go of the "past" and the mistakes I have made. I like to trick my brain with these kinds of things. Of course, because of my bad memory, it is very easy to forget a thing, once I decide to do so.

I was once ruminating about how I messed up so bad, when I was younger. The person to whom I was speaking asked, "How long ago was it that you did all that?" I responded, "Oh, about 10 years ago."

He said, "Well, how cool it is that the only reason you have to feel bad about yourself is because of things you did 10 years ago or more."

Hmmm. That was a good point. I was continuing to beat myself up for things I had done in the past, even though since that time, I had been a good person, basically. It's sort of like continuing bad karma even though perhaps you've even already paid the price for the things you've done.

And like Ped said (and please, Ped, if you read this, correct me if I'm wrong), even if the consequences of what I did are still occurring, what's more important is how I perceive those consequences and how I feel about them, how I react to them.

But anyways, not only do I often have the ADD concept of time, which can feel chaotic, I can also have the peaceful feeling of existing only in the present and flying by the seat of my pants. Simply acting in the moment.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Infinite Moment [Re: Frog]
    #2172336 - 12/12/03 06:21 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Myself, I have really started working on living in the moment. I mean, hell, right now I just woke up, and there will soon be two young kids here because one is sick and couldn't go to school and the mother had to go do something and I have to go down and like supervise them and shit. Sort of sucks, but at the moment they aren't here, and the Shroomery is actually moving at a good pace and I have IN FLAMES fucking cranked up.

But ja, what I am saying is that the thoughts of how much I don't prefer the situation that is coming up are not being thought right now. It ruins the experience I have right now.

I mean, fucking hell, I have Julebrus, for god's sake (Christmas soda). And I can take my bass down and play unplugged while I have to watch them. Focus on the negative and you fucking miss out.

One thing that I am really going to focus on now that I have experienced the benefits is really living in the now, as much as I possibly can. It isn't really that hard to do, at least for me, I just have to bring myself to do it all the time. :grin:

Life's all about the flow. One appreciates this a lot more when you are conscious of the moment that things are actually flowing, right here and right now. It never hurts to take a few deep breaths, either. hehe
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: The Infinite Moment [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2172594 - 12/12/03 10:43 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Whenever I try and live in the moment I always end up forgetting to do something I am supposed to do.

I need to set an alarm clock to let me know when the moment is over. :tongue:


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: The Infinite Moment [Re: sirreal]
    #2172606 - 12/12/03 10:50 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Zakkly.

Webster:

mo?ment ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mmnt)
n.
A brief interval of time.

in?fi?nite ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nf-nt)
adj.
Having no boundaries or limits.
Immeasurably great or large; boundless: infinite patience; a discovery of infinite importance.


So what is an immeasurably large, but brief interval of time? Oh, is this another quaint, albeit meaningless, paradox?

I love this qoute, i rushed for a pen as soon as i read over this
But as the moment was infinite, you could never get to the pen and will be rushing for all eternity.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Infinite Moment [Re: Swami]
    #2172630 - 12/12/03 11:09 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
So what is an immeasurably large, but brief interval of time? Oh, is this another quaint, albeit meaningless, paradox?





Actually, I think it is just a matter of two opposite perspectives colliding. :grin:

I mean, life is definitely a long thing for us, from our perspective, but compared to the Earth, our life was too short to even show up on the chart.

Each moment is timeless. Its just that there are millions of other moments that are played in realtime, one after another...

*shrugs* I'm crazy. It is just something to think about, I guess. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: The Infinite Moment [Re: PeyoteZen]
    #2172653 - 12/12/03 11:24 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

What do you think?
Time is an illusion?


Let's dig up Alan Watts and ask his decomposed body about the illusion of time.  :rolleyes:  Sounds like the time (illusion and all) for another unaccepted $20,000 Swami Challenge...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: The Infinite Moment [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2172658 - 12/12/03 11:26 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I'm not thinking specifically about time as measured by seconds, minutes and hours. I'm thinking about time as the present which I am experiencing, or the past, or the future. Time only matters, really, when I have to work, or meet someone, things like that. I don't mind being bound by real time, but I prefer not to be.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: The Infinite Moment [Re: Frog]
    #2173485 - 12/12/03 08:07 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

On a more productive note (though that's an odd way to refer to posting on a drug site messageboard) I like to think that all those people who talk about having had time stop while tripping are still existing in that particular moment, and will be forever, be they dead or alive.

Mod edit: no flaming...


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.


Edited by Annom (12/15/05 03:01 PM)


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: The Infinite Moment [Re: Panoramix]
    #2173641 - 12/12/03 10:14 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Hey Swami, I dug up Alan Watts' corpse and he said you're a dickhead.

My intuition tells me it was not really Alan Watts' remark, but a cowardly person afraid to speak his own mind.

You might try reading the forum rules before posting, little one.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblemr crisper
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Re: The Infinite Moment [Re: Swami]
    #2173656 - 12/12/03 10:24 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

it's a good thing we all know intuition doesn't exist.


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: The Infinite Moment [Re: mr crisper]
    #2173831 - 12/13/03 12:38 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Nope, sorry, it was definately Alan Watts' corpse. As for the cowardly thing, well I'm sure you already know what I think of you. Not to attack you personally. I don't even know you, really.

My point was that I could have Alan Watts' corpse sitting on my sofa right now, chatting about why the Habs are better than the Leafs and drinking a beer. Most other people on this forum realize that the discussions are theoretical at best, and hence have the decency to be unsure of their opinions and what they express, whereas you seem quite hung up on your personal view of reality. You might want to get over that.

And yes, I did make a personal attack against you and then say I wasn't attacking you personally... Don't worry, I am, as always, wrong. Maybe you can get over that too, while you're having fun getting over things.

I just went and actually read the S&P Rules (yes, I know, I hadn't yet, I'm bad) and I must admit I was out of line. I'd edit the post in which I made the comment, but I expect (and correct me if I'm wrong) that Swami likes to provoke these kinds of reactions from people of differing views, as it indicates that his debating skills were, indeed, superior. So I'll leave it up so that Swami can enjoy his sweet victory in forcing my hand to produce such ill-conceived vulgarity.


Edited by Panoramix (12/13/03 12:47 AM)


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: The Infinite Moment [Re: mr crisper]
    #2173845 - 12/13/03 12:51 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

well let's take the two ideas regarding time. infinite and moment would be here. now saying that something is infinite and yet a moment doesn't make sense at all. again I know these are just concepts here but still, saying infinite moment is confusing.

now then regarding time. you can think of it as all one moment, or that time is linear. maybe we can even look at this graphically. the "now moment" would be a dot, really no dimension, because there's nowhere for it to go. here the now moment wouldn't be defined as a progression, but rather it just exists. All of it

now if we think of time as linear then we can think about it as a line maybe? hmmm then it would represent the inifnite then????

now who are we to say what is what??? which one is correct??? does correct even matter??


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: The Infinite Moment [Re: kaiowas]
    #2173851 - 12/13/03 12:54 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

intuition doesn't exist?? that's like saying no deduction exists. I CAN GUESS what certain people will do and how certain people react. *sigh*


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: The Infinite Moment [Re: kaiowas]
    #2173886 - 12/13/03 01:17 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Something can just as easily be one-dimensional and infinite as two-dimensional (linear or circular) and infinite. Moment is a convienent way of decribing the current... umm... moment... though, so I can understand why people would use it. I think infinite moment is like saying the ongoing present. It makes sense if you squint your eyes, yes?


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.


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