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Psychonautica
Cuddly Wuddly Fuccboi


Registered: 04/20/15
Posts: 10,854
Loc: Free Soul & IISkuNkII
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Re: Big banks fined $5.7 Billion after pleading guilty to global currency conspiracy. [Re: Shroomism]
#21714616 - 05/23/15 03:44 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Jail who, exactly, and from whom did they steal trillions
THE FUCKING PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE WHO ADMITTED TO IT. Are you seriously that daft? And who did they steal from? Everyone on the planet.
I guarantee if you did it, they would lock you away and throw away the key.
They didn't steal from me?
All my money is still in my bank account.
How much did they take from you?
-------------------- The chances of you even being born, Were forty million to one. There's two parts of the statistic And I want you to live through one 3/8/95 - 7/10/15 Rest In Paradise, Brother. Sheekle said: yeah, i said i was afraid of psychonautica

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Eggtimer
HotSauce Lover

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 3,097
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Re: Big banks fined $5.7 Billion after pleading guilty to global currency conspiracy. [Re: ManianFH]
#21714656 - 05/23/15 03:52 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Anyone remember when HSBC got caught launder drug money since like the 80's? They were doing it for the Mexican drug cartels and like terrorist who make heroin. Probably still are. The war on drugs hahahah http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business-july-dec12-hsbc_12-11/ http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/outrageous-hsbc-settlement-proves-the-drug-war-is-a-joke-20121213
-------------------- It's all for the s
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


Registered: 10/11/08
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Re: Big banks fined $5.7 Billion after pleading guilty to global currency conspiracy. [Re: Psychonautica]
#21714674 - 05/23/15 03:58 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psychonautica said:
Quote:
Shroomism said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Jail who, exactly, and from whom did they steal trillions
THE FUCKING PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE WHO ADMITTED TO IT. Are you seriously that daft? And who did they steal from? Everyone on the planet.
I guarantee if you did it, they would lock you away and throw away the key.
They didn't steal from me?
All my money is still in my bank account.
How much did they take from you?
Ahahahahaha everything is a-okay
they didn't steal from me
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Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 17,617
Loc: Atlantis
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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Re: Big banks fined $5.7 Billion after pleading guilty to global currency conspiracy. [Re: Psychonautica]
#21714704 - 05/23/15 04:05 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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When it comes to large scale collusion between big corporations, there is almost no disincentive to not collude. In some ways there is much stronger incentives to collude, as the law doesn't have the necessary teeth deal with these kinds of conduct. 5.7 bn sounds like a lot but it is nothing in comparison to the profits they would have made. Let alone the damage to traders and industries. Majority of products are priced on the U.S. dollar, so when they appreciate artificially the value of the USD, it burns almost the entire worlds trading system making products more expensive and causing global price rises. And the value of the dollar relative to other nations has flow on effects for interest rates also. Which again globally effects investors and in particular countries with strong trade links. The effect of this really is monumentous on the global economy and it is criminal. The board members should be held criminally liable if aware and disqualified for life from being company directors.
This happened in a key case in aus with garbage disposal companies. I can't remember the name but they colluded to raise profits and maintain prices in a market over a period of years and reaped massive profits. When discovered they get only a small slap on the wrists. Companies can do these thing strategically knowing they will still profit even if prosecuted.
But its a complex issue because what are tht supposed to do in this instance? Sink an entire industry? In aus new laws have a few diff methodologies of how to fine colluding companies, it was something like total profit gained (if discernible, which it often isn't), a set amount if up to a certain amount (500k-couple million) or 10% of annual profits in the year the collision took place - which I think is getting more towards the required ranges. $5.7 is not enough for this kind of conduct. The banks would be laughing at this
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  R.I.P. WoodRuss67, Todcasil, TheMerryIguana, The Rompus, Lord Senate. [/url]
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Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 17,617
Loc: Atlantis
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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Re: Big banks fined $5.7 Billion after pleading guilty to global currency conspiracy. [Re: Psychonautica]
#21714717 - 05/23/15 04:08 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psychonautica said:
Quote:
Shroomism said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Jail who, exactly, and from whom did they steal trillions
THE FUCKING PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE WHO ADMITTED TO IT. Are you seriously that daft? And who did they steal from? Everyone on the planet.
I guarantee if you did it, they would lock you away and throw away the key.
They didn't steal from me?
All my money is still in my bank account.
How much did they take from you?
Not directly, but it's very likely their actions have artificially influenced global prices and interest rates, and likely making the things you purchase cost more then they should at some stage, on a global scale. Which is in a way indirect theft.
Anyways they need to collapse the American dollar now so that I can get more mileage on my money in vegas and buy myself some new speakers and headphones.
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  R.I.P. WoodRuss67, Todcasil, TheMerryIguana, The Rompus, Lord Senate. [/url]
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Big banks fined $5.7 Billion after pleading guilty to global currency conspiracy. [Re: Shroomism]
#21714732 - 05/23/15 04:12 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Jail who, exactly, and from whom did they steal trillions
THE FUCKING PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE WHO ADMITTED TO IT. Are you seriously that daft? And who did they steal from? Everyone on the planet.
I guarantee if you did it, they would lock you away and throw away the key.
Names names names. How was everybody on the planet harmed and why is it OK when governments do it?
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Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 17,617
Loc: Atlantis
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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Re: Big banks fined $5.7 Billion after pleading guilty to global currency conspiracy. [Re: zappaisgod]
#21714741 - 05/23/15 04:15 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Read my previous posts, artificiallyanupulatkng currency and interest rates having detrimental effects on traders and borrowers globally.
Important to note that central banks are not government institutions and thus it is also not governments doing it in the sense that you are referencing
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  R.I.P. WoodRuss67, Todcasil, TheMerryIguana, The Rompus, Lord Senate. [/url]
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Psychonautica
Cuddly Wuddly Fuccboi


Registered: 04/20/15
Posts: 10,854
Loc: Free Soul & IISkuNkII
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Re: Big banks fined $5.7 Billion after pleading guilty to global currency conspiracy. [Re: Soulidarity]
#21714747 - 05/23/15 04:17 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
artificiallyanupulatkng
wat
-------------------- The chances of you even being born, Were forty million to one. There's two parts of the statistic And I want you to live through one 3/8/95 - 7/10/15 Rest In Paradise, Brother. Sheekle said: yeah, i said i was afraid of psychonautica

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Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 17,617
Loc: Atlantis
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Re: Big banks fined $5.7 Billion after pleading guilty to global currency conspiracy. [Re: Psychonautica]
#21714748 - 05/23/15 04:18 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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iPhone autocorrect... Artificially manipulating
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  R.I.P. WoodRuss67, Todcasil, TheMerryIguana, The Rompus, Lord Senate. [/url]
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Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 17,617
Loc: Atlantis
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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Re: Big banks fined $5.7 Billion after pleading guilty to global currency conspiracy. [Re: Soulidarity]
#21714754 - 05/23/15 04:19 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Zappa I have a strong position on this one, let's dance lol
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  R.I.P. WoodRuss67, Todcasil, TheMerryIguana, The Rompus, Lord Senate. [/url]
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Big banks fined $5.7 Billion after pleading guilty to global currency conspiracy. [Re: Soulidarity]
#21714755 - 05/23/15 04:20 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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The governments control the central banks but if you like I'll play along. Why is it OK when central banks do it?
This is essentially arcane bullshit that may or may not have fucked over some investors. The government took a settlement because they knew it would be hard to prove and the banks took a settlement because they knew it was cheaper and in spite of all the kneejerk banks suck bullshit it was pretty much meaningless.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Big banks fined $5.7 Billion after pleading guilty to global currency conspiracy. [Re: Soulidarity] 1
#21714759 - 05/23/15 04:22 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Soulidarity said: Zappa I have a strong position on this one, let's dance lol
Put on your red shoes
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Mescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 6,755
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Big banks fined $5.7 Billion after pleading guilty to global currency conspiracy. [Re: zappaisgod]
#21714769 - 05/23/15 04:25 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: The central banks control the governments .
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Big banks fined $5.7 Billion after pleading guilty to global currency conspiracy. [Re: Mescalean]
#21714779 - 05/23/15 04:28 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I have yet to see a central bank with an army.
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Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 17,617
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Re: Big banks fined $5.7 Billion after pleading guilty to global currency conspiracy. [Re: zappaisgod]
#21714784 - 05/23/15 04:31 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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The governments appoint the officials of central banks and have indirect control of them because they can choose to reappoint them, but they are not directly government controlled.
It's acceptable when central banks manipulate interest rates and the supply of money DOMESTICALLY as they are operating within their legislative scope and function. It's also important to note that central banks don't collude with other central banks in international markets. Collusion is the key here. They are destroying the natural free market and healthy competition that constrains actions of these kind. That's where the illegality is. Central banks manipulate their currency to suit their domestic needs and stabilise/strengthen their own economy domestically.
It's not just about the investors who directly lost on the other side of their transactions, it's the effect on the global economy that their actions would have that is the issue on my eyes. As I said, price of everything is based off of the USD. This it had flow on effects for the global market
That's the issue particularly with insider trading, and even more so forex trading that it would be extremely tough to prove. But they were obviously aware of it, atleast enough to pressure them to publicly settle. My issue is that it's not enough. 5.7 bn for 5 years of collusion in a 5 trillion per day market. The real cost and profit of it is unquantifiable. It's unheard of
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  R.I.P. WoodRuss67, Todcasil, TheMerryIguana, The Rompus, Lord Senate. [/url]
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Big banks fined $5.7 Billion after pleading guilty to global currency conspiracy. [Re: Soulidarity]
#21714821 - 05/23/15 04:42 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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No, the central banks manipulate money internationally as well as domestically and they are controlled by the governments. Don't be naive. They have a certain amount of autonomy but in the end they are 100% controlled. Look at what China is doing.
I seriously doubt they made a shitload of money with this legerdemain and I absolutely doubt it extracted much wealth from the global market for anybody other than other currency traders. Currency rates fluctuate constantly even without manipulation. I have no reason to believe that this had any deleterious impact on the overall world economy.
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propensity
۞̷ ̶۞̷ ̶



Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 11,056
Loc: Bedrock America
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Re: Big banks fined $5.7 Billion after pleading guilty to global currency conspiracy. [Re: zappaisgod]
#21714849 - 05/23/15 04:51 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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--------------------
۞̷̛̗̗͉͇̰̅͒ͯͩ̆ͯ̑͘ ̶̖̭ͧ͛ͬ͑ͣͦ̍ͧ͐͟͢ www.cactophage.com ۞̷̛̗̗͉͇̰̅͒ͯͩ̆ͯ̑͘ ̶̖̭ͧ͛ͬ͑ͣͦ̍ͧ͐͟͢ ̸ۨ͜۞̷̛̗̗͉͇̰̅͒ͯͩ̆ͯ̑͘ ̶̖̭ͧ͛ͬ͑ͣͦ̍ͧ͐͟Dolphins of Dank۞̷̛̗̗͉͇̰̅͒ͯͩ̆
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Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 17,617
Loc: Atlantis
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Re: Big banks fined $5.7 Billion after pleading guilty to global currency conspiracy. [Re: zappaisgod]
#21714859 - 05/23/15 04:53 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Even if the damage was minimal which I dont think it was, it's the removal of the free market that is at issue. And in financial organisations as integral and important as this, over an extended period of time? Unacceptable! Even if we put the global impact issue to the side. Every trader on the other side of their large scale trades in the 5 year period got screwed. It would be almost impossible to prove and track though. Forex is more volitile then your ex wife (lol)
Particularly im suspicious of how quickly and strongly the USD seems to have recovered from its collapse in the 09-10 GFC, with no real fix to the economy applied. I think this may have had something to do with it! But that is speculation.
To see if it would have had any effect on the global economy we need more info about the magnitude, frequency and effect of the transactions I guess. I think it's plausible though
I agree there is an element of vicarious control by governments exerted over central banks... And they obviously work together with their government to suit their objectives. But they don't collude with other nations central banks and governments.
What is China doing??
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  R.I.P. WoodRuss67, Todcasil, TheMerryIguana, The Rompus, Lord Senate. [/url]
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Big banks fined $5.7 Billion after pleading guilty to global currency conspiracy. [Re: Soulidarity]
#21714889 - 05/23/15 05:05 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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China is totally holding the value of its currency in the toilet in order to support their export of slave labor products. There is no such thing as a free currency market. The very existence of the Euro puts the lie to any notion of that.
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Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



Registered: 07/15/12
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Re: Big banks fined $5.7 Billion after pleading guilty to global currency conspiracy. [Re: zappaisgod]
#21714929 - 05/23/15 05:12 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yes but they are just doing that to serve their own economic purposes. That's fine. They aren't colluding with other nations.
The euro Union is no different to federation of the states for economic benefit. And it simplifies the global economy. It's a good thing, rather then having 50 different exchange rates and currency making foreign trade a nightmare
Eitherway these 5 banks screwed up in a big way and there needs to be much more punitive action taken then just this 5.7 bn fine split between 5 organisations
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  R.I.P. WoodRuss67, Todcasil, TheMerryIguana, The Rompus, Lord Senate. [/url]
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