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OfflinegeokillsA
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Registered: 05/08/01
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--? What's up?.. I'll tell you what's up! ?-- * 1
    #2171039 - 12/10/03 05:55 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Wow, what a fucking week, eh?  I will do my best to explain what has transpired, but realize I am only human and this is/was an extremely complicated situation.  I see many people taking sides where they are uninformed and basing their decision upon an emotional reaction.  This is understandable, and it is incredibly unfortunate that 3D decided to leave this community - however allow me to get into some of the details.

Over the past years, 3DSHROOM has been an integral part of the administration.  Initially, control of the community was given to Thor and himself to maintain and finance.  At this starting point, the site was experiencing difficulty and money had to be outlaid by both of them, including others such as Vampire who covered costs for equipment and the like and also helped to set things up.  Within a short while, the Shroomery was back on its feet and taking in profits.  Somewhere along the way 3D wanted to put his name on the domain contract to modify some settings, and Thor didn't see a reason why this would be a problem.  It wasn't anticipated that 3D would take full control of the contract and remove Thor's name from it - which is precisely what occurred. 

Thor eventually stepped down from his position and 3D was now the sole accountant for the site, receiving as of late $1,400-2,100 each month from sponsor revenue.  Approximately $400-550 of this was appropriated for the hosting contract and where did the rest go?.. Well I don't know but I can tell you that there's no way 3D spent some one to two thousand dollars each month upgrading the site. 

That takes us to present day, where recently the entire staff and administration was on board to experiment with some potential changes in the OTD forum.  These experiments were discussed at length amongst the modship and administration before going into affect.  After two weeks, the experiment was coming to a close with a user-wide vote and 3D decided to dump the vote, open up the forum, and effectively null the weeks worth of time put in by much of the staff in efforts to come to an agreeable solution which would help this community run more efficiently and appropriately while still allowing for the freedom of uncensored discussion.  This was the straw that broke the camel's back.  The administration has been overruled by 3D's opinions many times in the past where he has banned users upon personal vendetta and refused to reconsider his actions even after the entire administrative body expressed their dissenting opinions.  Each time 3D has been unable to work as an equal partner, we have attempted to step in and try to council him in order to get 3D to understand that he cannot just keep overruling the administration's largely unified objective because he didn't agree with the overwhelming majority.  Unfortunately, things kept coming full circle and he had affectively driven off many of the site?s largest contributors.

Thus, over the last two weeks Thor was returned his rightful ownership of the domain name and other administrators created copies of the database to be housed on alternate servers as a bargaining tool to negotiate with 3D.  Our intentions were not to remove him from this community, but to give him a chance to work with us as an equal partner and not as an overseeing dictator.  After heavy deliberation, we were prepared to offer 3D the following terms:
  • A tentative position on the administrative panel, to be made permanent in two months contingent with his ability to work on the team without incident.
  • All fees covered for the remaining half year on the collocated hosting lease (approximately $3,000).
  • Up front cash compensation for his services of $1,200.
  • An equal share of compensation after the limited liability entity had established a reserve bank account with at least $5,000 in it to be used towards community promotions and expansion.  Gross profits would be distributed on a sliding scale thereafter, continuously helping the reserve fund to grow while also offering fair compensation to heavy contributors.
Our only demand, and that which 3D could not accept, was to transfer the collocation lease into Thor or Ythan's name such that he could not have ultimate control over the servers.  As soon as the limited liability entity was established, all contracts would hold the entity's name (no one individual?s), which would guarantee equal rights to the entire board of directors.

3D would have lost nothing by accepting our demands, aside from the excessive profit he had been receiving over the past couple years.  The profit that has far exceeded any investments he put into the community, and a profit that he would still be able to claim an appropriate portion of in the future for continuing his part time maintenance of the servers.  Unfortunately, he could not bite the bullet and accept these offers and instead has decided to withhold $4,000 worth of equipment purchased with community funds in addition to all the vendor fees that were paid to him for the month of December in advance.  The vendors have had their fees waived for this month and any that had paid 3D in advance will receive credit for their January contract even though 3D has squandered those funds, in addition to many thousands of dollars over the years.  We had to play hardball with him or he would have continued to keep 95% of the community's income for his own personal benefit and likely would not have considered structuring the management of a community this large in an appropriate manner with the necessary separation of duties to ensure that the community's - and not personal interests - were and are upheld.

I hope this sheds some light on recent events.  Know that we did not want things to turn out this way, and I'm personally baffled that 3D would decline such an offer as was presented to him - but it was his choice to make and the Shroomery will now move forward in a direction to grow and strengthen itself with legitimate operation.  It's been posted elsewhere, but I want to reassure you all that though the site is slow for the time being, the administration is appropriating much of our own money to get new hardware online ASAP.  We are actively searching out components and hope to have the two servers (one for the BB and one for the front end) up and running no later than early January, but hopefully a lot sooner if we can gather parts quickly.  Thank you all for bearing with us, and we hope you stick around for what truly will be a brighter future for this community.


:mushroom2:


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--------------------
··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙··
...π╥ ╥π...


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OfflineMetaShroom
菌类
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Registered: 06/02/02
Posts: 1,462
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Re: --? What's up?.. I'll tell you what's up! ?-- [Re: geokills]
    #2171043 - 12/10/03 06:16 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Thanks for letting people know what's been going on with the takeover geokills :sun:, I thought that money was behind this somewhere :razz:


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,806
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: --? What's up?.. I'll tell you what's up! ?-- [Re: geokills]
    #2171061 - 12/10/03 07:06 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Sounds like 3D bit off his nose to spite his face.

Congrats on regaining control and good luck.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleRipple
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Re: --? What's up?.. I'll tell you what's up! ?-- [Re: geokills]
    #2171069 - 12/10/03 07:30 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Geo.....Thanks for making this post in a public forum, and keeping our membership appraised of what is going on behind the scenes. You have my trust, my faith and my thanks! I sincerly hope that we can put this behind us and continue to grow this community to become even greater than it is today!

Shine On my brother!


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Offlinethechemist
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Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 244
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Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: --? What's up?.. I'll tell you what's up! ?-- [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2171071 - 12/10/03 07:33 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

yeah..3d is retarded for not taking that deal..im sorry you guys have to work with people like that..


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Offline3DSHROOM
loon
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Registered: 04/20/99
Posts: 2,878
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: --? What's up?.. I'll tell you what's up! ?-- [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2171072 - 12/10/03 07:37 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

I can tell you there are many pieces of misinformation in what geokills just posted. I understand they want to make me look bad to others, but most people can see through the muddy water and realize that I was treated like shit.


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InvisiblePapaverS
Madmin Emeritus?

Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 26,880
Loc: Radio Free Tibet!
Re: --? What's up?.. I'll tell you what's up! ?-- [Re: 3DSHROOM]
    #2171073 - 12/10/03 07:45 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

3D, I can understand how you "feel" that way, but I still think you over reacted, and I wish that you had taken the deal, and stayed on to work with us. However, I also understand that you have long histories with Thor and Ythan, and that things are "personal," as much as some of us wish they weren't...


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Offlinejong21
Mycologist/CSMajor

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 576
Loc: Berkeley, CA
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: --? What's up?.. I'll tell you what's up! ?-- [Re: 3DSHROOM]
    #2171077 - 12/10/03 07:55 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

3D, I've never talked to you or met you and am not passing judgement, but this issue will never be resolved, no one will really truly know all the details. You made your decision to leave, if you had stayed and fought for your position that way, more could have been accomplished, but as of now I think the continued discussion of this is absolutely futile. I know shady stuff has happened but I think it will be best if everyone in the community steps back and gives the new administration a chance to prove themselves as leaders of the community. After all we will never have PROOF from either side so our only option is to give the admins a chance to prove themselves. We've heard a bunch of bad stuff about the admins from 3D and a bunch of bad stuff about 3D from the admins...personally I think geokill has a pretty organized argument, and 3D leaving rather than staying to confront his problems while a leader has hindered his ability to be taken seriously, because of the fact that he will not be a leader, as was his own decision.

I encourage the admins to keep the OTD, it lends much to the "community" aspect of the site. Even though it gets rough there sometimes, you have to realize that members of the community are people, people who don't always want to talk about mushrooms and spirituality and drugs and tripping. I'm only bringing this up because I know a lot of people are afraid for OTD...personally I don't think you guys would ever get rid of it but just making sure.


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I either talk about my friends in the first or third person, but I never, ever talk about myself on this website. Except that last sentence.


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OfflineboOM
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Registered: 06/26/99
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Re: --? What's up?.. I'll tell you what's up! ?-- [Re: Papaver]
    #2171079 - 12/10/03 08:00 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

3d, post what other things haven't been said in geo's letter...that way everyone can know the "full" detail of what happened.

also, if you remember your going away letter...you had made yourself look to be a martyr...not giving away any deteails of what had happened...i'd have to say geo's letter gave a little bit more light on the whole ordeal. plus, your responses to some threads have been tinkering with anger...papaver and geo have been responding by saying you're a good guy, wish you could still be apart of the team, etc. This just goes to show that possibly their story may be the correct one? just a personal view.

still i say this is a new start. a new start for the shroomery and a new start for yourself. from now on, there won't be anything to deal with personal drama hopefully. everyone should be at peace now...no hard feelings should be felt any longer.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: --? What's up?.. I'll tell you what's up! ?-- [Re: 3DSHROOM]
    #2171080 - 12/10/03 08:00 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

There is much good information, but also some subjective information, as there are always several sides of a story.

I hope we all learned something from the past months.


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InvisibleSammi
stoner

Registered: 05/18/03
Posts: 356
Loc: Texas
Re: --? What's up?.. I'll tell you what's up! ?-- [Re: 3DSHROOM]
    #2171081 - 12/10/03 08:03 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

geo: If 3D didnt spend any of this money on the server for shroomery, then why was is such a good server? Hardly went down, and when it did he would fix it right then. You have to remember Geo...I am here in person. I see what happens.

He spent alot of his own money on this site before it started making money. More money then you know. Did you ever spend any of your own money on shroomery? And I'm talking before all this BS started happening...

When Thor left was when 3D changed the domain name to gkg and only had his own name on it. Why should someone who is going to leave and be flakey have there name on it? Then Thor goes and STEALS it. He used 3D's personal account which I would think is illegeal.

Then you guys go and get vampire999 and mndfreeze (knowing that they hate me and 3D for things they should be over by now) and you guys tell them to lock 3D out, take down the ircd, to steel everything off the server inculding upgrades and work 3D had done on his own and put into the server, and then they even go as far as to steal the gentoo CD which was needed to fix it. From what I understand that is also illegeal, and if vampire999 ever goes back the ppl at the colo centr are going to call the cops on him because he is no longer allowed to be there.

Now, speaking in my own openion if I was in 3D's shoe's I would had gotten the cops involved when Thor stole the domain name. But 3D isnt me, and he is being nice about this whole thing. Why? I really have no clue. I guess I'm just a bitch like that.


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Every cause has an effect, but in the end you get what you give.


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Offline3DSHROOM
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Re: --? What's up?.. I'll tell you what's up! ?-- [Re: jong21]
    #2171086 - 12/10/03 08:13 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

jong21 said:
3D, I've never talked to you or met you and am not passing judgement, but this issue will never be resolved, no one will really truly know all the details. You made your decision to leave, if you had stayed and fought for your position that way, more could have been accomplished, but as of now I think the continued discussion of this is absolutely futile. I know shady stuff has happened but I think it will be best if everyone in the community steps back and gives the new administration a chance to prove themselves as leaders of the community.




I agree, this is why I didn't make a long drawn out post.  Everyone should definitely give the new admins a chance to try and prove themselves.

Quote:

jong21 said:
and 3D leaving rather than staying to confront his problems while a leader has hindered his ability to be taken seriously, because of the fact that he will not be a leader, as was his own decision.




There comes a point in everyone when you become tired of confronting so many problems.  It really effects you when those you trust become the problems.  Over the past 2 years and 8 months as an administrator, I've dealt with more problems than you could imagine.  I'm ready to chill out and run a smaller site. :mushroom2: :thumbup: :mushroom2:


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Your friendly neighborhood loon


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OfflineRebirtha
I really like bread
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Re: --? What's up?.. I'll tell you what's up! ?-- [Re: 3DSHROOM]
    #2171104 - 12/10/03 09:15 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

i'll join :smile:


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InvisibleOldSpice
Geritol Breath...
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Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 59,080
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Post deleted by Administrator [Re: 3DSHROOM]
    #2171113 - 12/10/03 09:48 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)



--------------------
So hard to be ....WDWGFH?
Texas is humongus compared to France
Our Gair, who art in Texas,
Paw Paw be thy Name....
My friends are thirsty


You never see a motorcycle parked outside a Psychiatrist office:biker:


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Anonymous

Re: --? What's up?.. I'll tell you what's up! ?-- [Re: geokills]
    #2171128 - 12/10/03 10:19 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


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InvisiblePapaverS
Madmin Emeritus?

Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 26,880
Loc: Radio Free Tibet!
Re: --? What's up?.. I'll tell you what's up! ?-- [Re: OldSpice]
    #2171130 - 12/10/03 10:26 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Alounacara said:
3D What is your reason for withholding $4,000 worth of equipment that was purchased thru vendors monies for the Shroomerys benefit...




Frankly, I'd just as soon drop the issue. 3D made a very nice post above, and I'd like leave it at that, and to move past this whole thing -- forward and into the future.

We are making other hardware arrangements, as I speak, and we were going to offer 3D some money anyway to help him out, so if he'd rather have the hardware and not deal with us, then so be it. It's not my decision to make, but I am not against him having it, so he at least gets something, as I think he spent all the money, and he does have expenses.

This has never been a 3D lynching party, in my mind, and I don't want to see it turn into one. 3D has dedicated much time and effort to this community, and has done a pretty darned good job. However, he made some mistakes, as we all do, and he was offered a chance to continue on with us, and he declined. That's really all there is to it.

Frankly, I think this episode is over. 3D has his own plans for his future, and we have our own plans for the future of this web-site. My concerns right now, are the immediate future of this community, including hardware concerns, and the incorporation in Canada, so we don't have these sorts of problems in the future.


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Anonymous

Re: --? What's up?.. I'll tell you what's up! ?-- [Re: Papaver]
    #2171135 - 12/10/03 10:37 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: --? What's up?.. I'll tell you what's up! ?-- [Re: Sammi]
    #2171139 - 12/11/03 01:51 AM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

When Thor left was when 3D changed the domain name to gkg and only had his own name on it. Why should someone who is going to leave and be flakey have there name on it? Then Thor goes and STEALS it. He used 3D's personal account which I would think is illegeal.





How did 3d change manage to gain ownership of the domain name from Thor without his permission, and without commiting Identity fraud?

Sounds to me that Thor was stealing his own property.


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OfflinegeokillsA
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Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 19,098
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Last seen: 3 days, 7 hours
Re: --? What's up?.. I'll tell you what's up! ?-- [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2171152 - 12/11/03 03:05 AM (13 years, 2 days ago)

"How did 3d change manage to gain ownership of the domain name from Thor without his permission, and without commiting Identity fraud?"
This is a question that Thor has asked 3D and has not received a response.  But what's done is done, we shouldn't bring anymore skeletons out of the closet :smirk:

On a happy note, we have parts for a sexy new server with 4 GIGABYTES of RAM on the way which will hopefully be up and running by Monday, if not later next week! :rocket:

A note about incorporation: We will be taking steps to create a limited liability entity that will function similar to a partnership, but may not necessarily be a corporation per se.  There are many factors to consider and we have to ensure we pick whichever route would suit this community best.  Right now we have to prioritize, and first up is new hardware and a new hosting contract.


--------------------

--------------------
··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙··
...π╥ ╥π...


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Offline3DSHROOM
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Registered: 04/20/99
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Re: --? What's up?.. I'll tell you what's up! ?-- [Re: OldSpice]
    #2171153 - 12/11/03 03:09 AM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Alounacara said:
has decided to withhold $4,000 worth of equipment purchased with community funds in addition to all the vendor fees that were paid to him for the month december...This was quoted by Geo.......
3D What is your reason for withholding $4,000 worth of equipment that was purchased thru vendors monies for the Shroomerys benefit...
If you earned it thru your labours then it is rightfully yours
If you didnt earn it then the said equipment should be returned
Please clarify this matter so people wont think bad of you...




The first server was mainly built with money from long time vendors and I have offered them free hosting on the servers they helped build. The second database server was paid for by myself with help of a temporary loan from Vampire999.

The new administrators aren't living up to hosting the sites that benifit the community as a whole. http://www.mushroomjohn.com (A great outdoor mushroom hunting info site) http://www.tribesofgomorra.com (A site similar to Shroomery, just with a German influence) http://www.ilfungosacro.tk (A site similar to Shroomery, just with an Italian influence). I've always thought of the Shroomery as a greater part of the community, more than just the one website.


--------------------
Your friendly neighborhood loon


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