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OfflineAegisEpoch
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?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help??
    #21702121 - 05/20/15 11:52 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Hey forum
I've been reading these posts on the forums for 2 months now without an account, as I've started my first grow and there a few things they don’t cover in the Improved PF Tek section of “Psilocybin Mushroom Handbook” by Nicholas and Ogame, which I am using. All the advice and questions I've seen have satiated the majority of my concerns, but now I am at the fruiting stage and I worry about the condition of my jars. So much so that I felt I needed to make an account and show you all pictures and see what you think of my setup. Here’s pics

April 26th




May 4th





May 18th


this next one is number 2, just forgot to label it :P






*I used the boiling water method to prepare my jars and inoculated after they became room temperature, I used a Tupperware container and I sprayed a water and bleach solution heavily over the foot of distance between the jars and the. Tupperware case. Once I loaded them up in the case I took them through the house to my closet I had prepared with a Hepa filter, and I wiped off the case with
*I kept the lid and foil top on during colonization in the drawer. I read too much conflicting information, so I just chose the most sanitary option. Lysol, removed the jars, inoculated the jars, and placed in the drawer in my room for three weeks.
*I dropped number 1 once, and number four has a crack in the glass and hadn’t colonized around there but I went ahead and fruited anyway.
* I used a 6500k light bulb from Walmart as the light source based off of my however crude interpretations of advice from these forums, the book only classified this light as florescent.
*At one point I knocked them over, but they were in trash bags that I hadn't cut for size. Most of it was contained in the bag and I place it back into the jar and shook it to look level. I had to use my hands to get the vermiculite back in jar one. That was all about a week ago.
*I kept them in separate Jars in hopes that any contamination doesn't affect the other jars. That the fact number four has a crack that hadn't fully colonized around the area, and that when I inoculated them, I forgot to clean the needle after the 2nd jar. :P
*My casing layer is the one directed from the improved pf tek, using just dry vermiculite. I scratched that layer with a clean fork gently to the top of the cake and they started looking similar before I dropped them. I replaced back the vermiculite, and it’s been this way ever since
*I have not been certain on what overlay is or if it is occurring to my jars. Today in fact, I sprayed water on the casing and it seem to have an issue permeating, I gently rolled the jar slightly diagonal and a blob of water just remained rolling around the rim, only slightly dissipating.
*I have also read about how many assume their grows are infected with cobweb mold when they are not, and even though I have surmised that it is not exactly the shape of the photographs of cobweb mold I’ve seen, I still have worries.

So I guess my question is, “is what I’m doing ok?”  And “is my casing layer ok?”


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"I fear no contams" - Fraggin


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OfflineGreenRabbit
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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: AegisEpoch]
    #21702138 - 05/20/15 11:59 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Are the bottom pictures your fruiting chambers?
Just make an SGFC or monoutub, it looks like you have 0 airflow.

Why was there foil under the lids?

All in all, I think you are fine. Simply getting mushrooms to grow is really easy actually, doing it well and getting high yields will take some experience.


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OfflineAegisEpoch
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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #21702283 - 05/20/15 12:42 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

1. yes they are, i explained in the notes after the pic that i kept them separate to lessen the likelihood that one jar would contaminate the rest.

"Just make an SGFC or monoutub, it looks like you have 0 airflow."
i used saran wrap as the lid for my fruiting chamber and it is perforated with holes, as well as 1-2 times a day fanning.

2.i used foil to wrap around the jar to keep light from hitting the sides and stimulate pinning, i read up here that light can travel down the sides of glass and i'm sure a substance like foil doesn't help. but here's hoping for the best.


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OfflineGreenRabbit
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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: AegisEpoch]
    #21702290 - 05/20/15 12:45 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

AegisEpoch said:
1. yes they are, i explained in the notes after the pic that i kept them separate to lessen the likelihood that one jar would contaminate the rest.

"Just make an SGFC or monoutub, it looks like you have 0 airflow."
i used saran wrap as the lid for my fruiting chamber and it is perforated with holes, as well as 1-2 times a day fanning.

2.i used foil to wrap around the jar to keep light from hitting the sides and stimulate pinning, i read up here that light can travel down the sides of glass and i'm sure a substance like foil doesn't help. but here's hoping for the best.





Those aren't proper FCs and your holes in the saran wrap are not facilitating airflow.

Light is a secondary pinning trigger and will not cause pins by itself. Full colonization and Fresh air are the main pinning triggers.


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OfflineAegisEpoch
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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #21703039 - 05/20/15 04:45 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

so should i buy a FC system, or just use a regular plastic bin with a transparent top, with perlite on the bottom?

the improved pf tek from the book says to use a container for all jars and cover it with a transparent wrap with many holes. this, and controlling contams, is why i used individual plastic bins for each jar is this may be wrong or inefficient, but i'm making sure i've clarified.

also i heard alot about fresh air not being as necessary as gas exchange, but once again, i submit to your judgement.


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OfflineGreenRabbit
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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: AegisEpoch]
    #21703058 - 05/20/15 04:50 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Gas exchange is for colonizing jars. Fruiting mycelium needs Fresh air. Since you are keeping you cakes in the jars you may want to just throw them in a monotub. Check out this tek it's not far from what you are trying to do. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21371762#21371762


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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #21703098 - 05/20/15 05:00 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Hey man I think youre reading old or outdated info. For example overlay does not exist with cubensis.

I would scrap that book and "improved PF tek" man. Search for "lets grow mushrooms" , probably the best guide available for PF tek.

I read through that guide and its just not very good. In fact the best improvement on the original PF tek is to birth the jars, dunk in water overnight and roll in vermiculite, that and the shotgun fruiting terrarium


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Edited by mushpunx (05/20/15 05:06 PM)


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OfflineAegisEpoch
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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #21703248 - 05/20/15 05:31 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

ok i understand now about fresh air exchange. and wow that looks amazing... i'm definitely going to purchase the materials and create this.

i was wondering, since i already have it in a plastic jar, could i just cut holes in my plastic containers which contain my fruiting jars? not to say i will but for future reference..

also, where is all the condensation coming from in the monotub? it didnt mention anything about a humidifier


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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: AegisEpoch]
    #21703272 - 05/20/15 05:37 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

You might be able to but I think the SGFC would be easier, you could put all your jars in at once and take care of them at once, the singe fruiting chambers are better suited if you only have a couple cakes

What are you talking about the monotub tho


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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: AegisEpoch]
    #21703313 - 05/20/15 05:49 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

AegisEpoch said:
ok i understand now about fresh air exchange. and wow that looks amazing... i'm definitely going to purchase the materials and create this.

i was wondering, since i already have it in a plastic jar, could i just cut holes in my plastic containers which contain my fruiting jars? not to say i will but for future reference..

also, where is all the condensation coming from in the monotub? it didnt mention anything about a humidifier




Ok, so an FC is not designed to be humid. They are designed to make air move. The cakes will be fine as long as they are not dry, which is why you mist. Even with a FC with good airflow misting and fanning can still help.
You don't need a humidifier unless you have a greenhouse.

Your tupperware containers are doing nothing more than choking off your substrates. You have wide mouth jars so I would just birth them, dunk and roll in verm, and place them all in a SGFC.
Putting a bunch of holes in the tupperware will not create airflow still. You'd have to have holes everywhere and some perlite at the bottom but thats basically just a shitty SGFC so you might as well do it right.

Don't worry about cross-contamination, you're past the stage where you really need to worry about contams. If one of the cakes does get a contamination just get rid of it then.

Edit: Also, none of that looks like cobweb, and overlay has nothing to do with cakes. It's something that happens to large substrate with casing layers and it is pretty rare actually. It's hard to even find pictures of real overlay around here.


Edited by GreenRabbit (05/20/15 05:52 PM)


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OfflineAegisEpoch
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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: mushpunx]
    #21703331 - 05/20/15 05:53 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21053320#21053320

the monotub in that link has condensation on the inside, my jars have never had condensation. thats all i was asking. thanks you guys for this advice btw.


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OfflineGreenRabbit
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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: AegisEpoch]
    #21703337 - 05/20/15 05:55 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Your jars are not a monotub..

The monotubs humidity is coming from the substrate. The substrate in those mono's is holding way more water than your cakes. Also, your cakes are in jars still so I would not expect to see any condensation in your tupperware. Beyond that, with your lack of airflow, why would any water evaporate to be able to condense in the first place?


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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #21716927 - 05/24/15 09:27 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Ok so here is an update of sorts on progress. I was not able to yet obtain a monotub to store these jars in, however I have taken into consideration the necessity for fresh air exchange and misting instead of spraying a steam into a corner that isn’t touching growth and rolling it around the jar. I feel like I've seen more growth since. Also, since I am growing in a closet that I have a HEPA filter running in, I have decided to leave the saran wrap off of the jars for 30 mins or so after I fan them. I fan them 3 times a day now. I am also using a 15W 6500k bulb I bought from Walmart, forgot if I mentioned that.
Here's pics.. didnt label them with paint, but its in numerical order.

May 22nd



I must of taken a pic of number 2 twice, because i have no picture of number 3 :P

May24th







I am developing some blue, and it’s been about over a week now and I haven’t seen fruits. Is this a major problem or just some component of some step I didn’t do in the best way?


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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: AegisEpoch]
    #21716947 - 05/24/15 09:39 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

No, take the saran wrap off, you are just suffocating the mycelium. Fruiting isn't sterile anyway, your HEPA isn't necessary. Just leave them open like that, like the link I posted earlier. Keep them misted and it'll be fine. And don't mist with steam. I don't know where you got that but it's not going to help. You want to be able to evaporate water off your substrate. Steam increases humidity which isn't actually useful since it can't evaporate air.


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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #21717049 - 05/24/15 10:31 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Those look like a disaster.  Not the first time I have seen "improved pf tek" totally fuck a grow but I was hoping that abortion of bad info would have bit the dust by now.

They are bluing because they are drying out. Your best bet to salvage anything from that mess is to build a proper FC and birth those cakes, dunk them, then roll them in verm. The top fruiting surface has probably been pretty fucked up by now so you might as well try and fruiting the whole sub.


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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #21717057 - 05/24/15 10:34 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

GreenRabbit said:
No, take the saran wrap off, you are just suffocating the mycelium. Fruiting isn't sterile anyway, your HEPA isn't necessary. Just leave them open like that, like the link I posted earlier. Keep them misted and it'll be fine. And don't mist with steam. I don't know where you got that but it's not going to help. You want to be able to evaporate water off your substrate. Steam increases humidity which isn't actually useful since it can't evaporate air.




ohhh.. haha, i meant a stream. a stream of water into a corner. either way i've been lightly misting now.

Also, did you notice the blue? is that ok?


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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21717058 - 05/24/15 10:35 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

wow... that bad huh?... i just thought it was perhaps bluing from the misting.


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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: AegisEpoch]
    #21717077 - 05/24/15 10:46 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Well they are not a total loss . . . yet. But they need better conditions if you want to see anything from them.  Misting won't cause bruising unless your misting them with a hose set on jet. Drying out will cause bluing just like that.

I maybe spoke harsh to motivate you to do something.  They are not dead yet but, two more days in those conditions and they will be. Build a proper FC today.


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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21717109 - 05/24/15 10:59 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

i've heard of monotubs and things of the like. what would be your suggestion of where to look to find out what FC i need to make?


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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: AegisEpoch]
    #21717133 - 05/24/15 11:05 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Monotubs are best suited for bulk. I have done cakes in them but you need to have the cakes jammed in wall to wall, no blank spots. The cakes also need to be bottom watered at that point as well.

Your best bet is probably a SGFC easy enough to build. Its a clear tub with 1/4" holes drilled in a grid pattern with 2" spacing between them. Drill the holes on all six sides, top and bottom. Then fill it with 4" of wet perlite, preferably coarse,  and raise the chamber 4-6" or so at the corners. Keep it in the center of the room. 12/12 light.

A quick search of "SGFC" will answer any questions you might have.


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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21728812 - 05/27/15 01:44 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

so... I've made that sgfc now (just today lol) after dunking my cakes for 24 hours (more like 29 hours, had to go to work, oops)i noticed a little bit of yellowing and there were areas 'slightly' softer than others. but it didn't stink like mold or bacteria. anyway, i will have pictures later tonight or tomorrow.

  • i used a 24 quart clear container for my 3 jars. i kept one in my closet that i'm going to continue growing like the improved pf tek instructed. My logic is, if the sgfc works the way people claim that it does, i'll know within enough time to dunk it which way is the better way.
.
  • one of the 3 jars i sgfc'ed had some dark colored growth on it and i cut it off and in doing so, had to split the cake in half.

  • i rolled all of the cakes in vermiculite and placed into the sgfc.


i misted and fanned it near an hour ago. Am i ok so far? pics will be coming of my new sgfc and the cakes very soon.


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Edited by AegisEpoch (05/27/15 01:47 PM)


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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: AegisEpoch]
    #21729118 - 05/27/15 03:15 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Dark colored growth is usually contamination.  It would help to see it, but I would immediately remove it from SGFC as to not contaminate the other cakes.  Forget about the "improved PFTEK", you have already proven to yourself its bunk. Im only a beginner myself, currently on my second grow, but my advice would be to learn the most basic and simple PFTek and follow it to a T.  As you go along, you will learn a ton, but without a bit of effort and investment on your part - its not gonna happen.


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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: misiu007]
    #21729268 - 05/27/15 04:04 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I've returned with pictures!

misiu007. the two shorter cakes in the back are halves of the cake i cut.

may 27th





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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: AegisEpoch]
    #21729279 - 05/27/15 04:06 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Looks good, I hope you have more jars colonizing.


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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #21729296 - 05/27/15 04:11 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

whys that?


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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: AegisEpoch]
    #21729433 - 05/27/15 04:47 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

So you can switch substrates and not have to wait for jars to colonize when that one is done.


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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #21729678 - 05/27/15 05:48 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

oh ok. i guess i should look into that. especially if this goes well.


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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: AegisEpoch]
    #21729696 - 05/27/15 05:55 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Nice sgfc.  I think you have a shot now.  Keep em nice and moist, give em light and wait.


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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: misiu007]
    #21731304 - 05/28/15 06:08 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

so yesterday i misted 5  times and fanned 5 times. i wake up to there still being a few (not as many as my last misting around midnight) droplets on the sides. i just misted and fanned 15 mins ago. a few questions. and i'll have pics later of course.

1. if you notice i used a 2inch spaced grid of holes. from that information and my pictures, do you think my sgfc is too small?
2. is water droplets remaining on the side of the walls normal?
3. is there a definitive way to know if my SGFC FAE convection system is working?
4. I've misted and the vermiculite seems to just soak up the water, i've never got to a point where it all looks "wet enough." is that normal?
5. speaking of that, am i misting too heavily if some of the vermiculite sprays off. i never directly spray at it, bbut because of the size of the chamber i'm usualy a foot to a foot and a half away from the cakes when i'm spraying.


Edited by AegisEpoch (05/28/15 06:10 AM)


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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: AegisEpoch]
    #21731352 - 05/28/15 06:38 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

AegisEpoch said:
so yesterday i misted 5  times and fanned 5 times. i wake up to there still being a few (not as many as my last misting around midnight) droplets on the sides. i just misted and fanned 15 mins ago. a few questions. and i'll have pics later of course.

1. if you notice i used a 2inch spaced grid of holes. from that information and my pictures, do you think my sgfc is too small?
It looks fine

2. is water droplets remaining on the side of the walls normal?
I wouldn't worry about it

3. is there a definitive way to know if my SGFC FAE convection system is working?
If its buit to spec its working. Yours looks good.

4. I've misted and the vermiculite seems to just soak up the water, i've never got to a point where it all looks "wet enough." is that normal?
Sometimes it can be tricky to tell, look for glints of light and the verm will be a touch darker when moist

5. speaking of that, am i misting too heavily if some of the vermiculite sprays off. i never directly spray at it, bbut because of the size of the chamber i'm usualy a foot to a foot and a half away from the cakes when i'm spraying.
i would back up a bit more, if you're blasting the verm off its too close





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OfflineAegisEpoch
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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21734247 - 05/28/15 08:57 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

PICTURES i just took when i got home from work


front two larger cakes from the back

taken from the left at the two cakes on the right

take from the right at the two cakes on the left

back of larger cake on the left

back larger cake on the right

front of larger cake on the right

front of shorter cake on the left

shorter cake on the left 2


--------------------
"I fear no contams" - Fraggin


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OfflineAegisEpoch
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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: AegisEpoch]
    #21736283 - 05/29/15 10:36 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

So last night my lighting busted. i'm using the window as light for now until tonight when i get off and buy another bulb. My question is: how long do i "HAVE" to leave my chamber in front of the window for light triggering? its been 3 hours and i have to go to work so i don't want to leave it in my window for safety reasons. Also, my window is facing towards where the sun sets, and even so, i have living arrangements across the street from me which block it sort of. is the indirect sunlight the chamber is receiving sufficient?


--------------------
"I fear no contams" - Fraggin


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OfflineGreenRabbit
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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: AegisEpoch]
    #21736290 - 05/29/15 10:38 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Don't stress. Indirect lighting is fine, just not ideal. Nothing will die because your light broke.


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OfflineAegisEpoch
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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #21749429 - 06/01/15 05:09 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

So here is an update

i'm noticing some growth, worried that the chamber isnt getting FAE, and that this growth is aerial mycelium. i know i need to be patient, but its hard :frown:



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"I fear no contams" - Fraggin


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: AegisEpoch]
    #21750043 - 06/01/15 07:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Looks good. The mycelium is just recovering and colonizing the verm a bit cause it had the shit kicked outta it. Give it time.


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OfflineAegisEpoch
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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21887250 - 07/02/15 10:06 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

it failed, and i didnt want someone to follow this post and never know what happened. but i want to thank you all for your support.
it was a fun process, it really was. i feel like i've grown as a person through this process. Afterall, one shouldnt pray for an easy life, they should pray for the strength to endure a difficult one. and i've definitely learned patience and how to be consistent.

btw how long can a syringe stay in the fridge? ;-)


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"I fear no contams" - Fraggin


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: AegisEpoch]
    #21887269 - 07/02/15 10:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Sux that it didn't make it. Next round will be better. A syringe can stay good in the fridge for a few years.


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OfflineZeroBoyWD
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Re: ?? Improved Pf Tek.. bleh... fruiting jar (cobweb mold and overlay) Help?? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21887445 - 07/02/15 11:00 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Man you adapted to criticism so constructively (A rare thing here at times) it would be tragic if you didn't carry on. You are so close!


--------------------
I'm done trying to be "right." I want the exchange of ideas to be the currency of my economy. If you have something I can use, great. I'll try it out. If you think my methods are shit, great. Don't use it. We all want yields.



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