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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Santa Barbara oil spill
    #21701835 - 05/20/15 10:10 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

"Plains Pipeline deeply regrets this release has occurred..."

Well then, everything is OK. For a moment I thought they might just ordinary regret it, but deep regret makes the oil covered wildlife breathe better. Put on your suits and go for a swim. No SPF required.


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InvisibleKhancious
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #21701854 - 05/20/15 10:14 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Can I use some in my car? Tired of paying $20 every 3 months


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: Khancious]
    #21701859 - 05/20/15 10:16 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Give it a try! :cookiemonster:


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InvisibleKhancious
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #21701890 - 05/20/15 10:26 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Wait a second... are you setting me up? The salt will scrape my piston walls!

The water will help keep it kool tho :scumbagsteve:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: Khancious]
    #21701897 - 05/20/15 10:28 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Win-win.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #21702125 - 05/20/15 11:53 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I'm really sorry you feel that way.


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InvisibleSun King
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #21702219 - 05/20/15 12:26 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Makes fishin' easy.



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InvisibleKurt
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: Sun King]
    #21702918 - 05/20/15 04:10 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Its a shame; the beaches in this area are special. I'm right near there. Hopefully they don't get it too bad.

Nice flaccid apologeia from the politicians of course. That's all they said? What's the source of the quote btw?


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OfflineHippocampus
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: Kurt]
    #21705014 - 05/21/15 01:24 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I have family that will be in SB this weekend.

Quote:

Kurt said:
What's the source of the quote btw?




http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/may/20/california-oil-spill-gaviota-coast-cleanup


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OfflineThaj
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: Hippocampus]
    #21705110 - 05/21/15 02:35 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I don't have words to describe how sad it is


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: Thaj] * 1
    #21712157 - 05/22/15 09:07 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

This isn't Kuwait folks, just a little media sensationalism.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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InvisibleKurt
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21713744 - 05/23/15 10:41 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offshore_oil_and_gas_in_California

I don't know about Kuwait, but the coastline from Santa Barbara through Ventura is covered with oil rigs. You can usually see at least 5 or so at a time on the horizon, going up and down.

Maybe you have seen the pictures of what happened in the news? Is it sensationalism to show what happened? When this happens in your backyard and home, or the land you work live and retire to, its concerning. If anything the dialogue (at least as the op refers to) is deflationary.

If all they are able to say, is "we are sorry this incident happened at all", and in other words this raises no broader critique of economy or practice, in the industry, then the media will pretty naturally go beyond these statements to topical criticism, and further investigation.

I am not saying anything in the media, or otherwise, is rationally "justified". I understand that many of your generation's peers are involved with environmental movements, almost religiously in some cases. Nonetheless...

There is a comparison being made to the spill here in 1969. It is 9 (corrected) miles wide on the water, compared to 35 in that incident. Maybe that is somrwhat hyperbolic. But then, they should be sorry it happened at all, and what else? This is not philosophy, as much as politics. The realistic ramifications of the incident should not be confused with the dialogue, but the incident does raise questions of what the consequential statements mean, and how they will need to be interpreted.


Edited by Kurt (05/23/15 10:01 PM)


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: Kurt]
    #21716355 - 05/24/15 02:42 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Kurt said:


Maybe you have seen the pictures of what happened in the news? Is it sensationalism to show what happened? When this happens in your backyard and home, or the land you work live and retire to, its concerning. If anything the dialogue (at least as the op refers to) is deflationary.





Yep, let's just not loose sight of the fact that this is what folks are concerned with: keeping their nest comfy and cozy. The sea creatures are just throw pillows.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: johnm214]
    #21716711 - 05/24/15 07:18 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

This company, Plains "All American" Pipeline, has a HORRIBLE record of environmental violations, among the worst of the worst.  Lock a few of them up in prison!  "They" will truly be sorry then, not just pretending to be.


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: Kurt] * 1
    #21716946 - 05/24/15 09:39 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Dude, the estimated 105,000 gallons of oil, 21,000 gallons along the beach.  That is a TINY oil spill.  It's important you're concerned about your community, but this isn't a national news story.  I stand by my sensationalism comment.  5,526 barrells of oil being spilled is nothing compared to what's happened in actual oil spills.

If it's hit your community hard, I would be pissed too.  I think the santa barbra part of the news title is why it's national news, not the tiny little oil spill.


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Edited by Cognitive_Shift (05/24/15 09:45 AM)


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InvisibleKurt
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: johnm214]
    #21717014 - 05/24/15 10:10 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I am not sure what you are saying John. I have lived and worked here on the land for a few years, and love it. That of course doesn't exclude the land's biodiversity or ecosystems, or namely what it is.

I am curous what assumptions you may be working from to draw this line. Santa Barbara is foggy mornings sunny skies, blue waters, clean coastlines of course, along with its sea lions, dolphins, and the egrets hunting in high grass, and it is the people who love it. 

I think its best to allow nature to have a personally ascribed meaning, rather than necessarily being arsenal for some dialogue. Leaning too much on representing ideas and what a dialogue should be removes environmentalists and naturalists today from what they are talking about in many cases.


Edited by Kurt (05/24/15 10:57 AM)


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: Cognitive_Shift] * 2
    #21717020 - 05/24/15 10:14 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
This isn't Kuwait folks, just a little media sensationalism.





fuck yourself.  you live on the california coast?  probably not.  drill baby drill right?  fuck that.  there plenty of untapped oil and gas ON LAND where spills can at least be somewhat contained. 

Quote:

Dude, the estimated 105,000 gallons of oil, 21,000 gallons along the beach.




yeah, these initial estimates are usually accurate and never understate the damage...refugio state beach closed till past labor day...what about the businesses in the area that rely on summer beachgoers to make their livings?  This whole thing sucks so many bowls of dicks.  The Southern California coastline is one of the last decent fisheries left in the damn world.  Anyone who says that this will have no effect on fishing is a fool.  the kelp forests are the flagship ecosystem around here, and kelp can't anchor to fucking oil.  No Kelp Forest=no habitat for numerous species like Calico bass, kelp wrasse, etc.  the marine ecosystem is already strained by unusually warm water around here, and now this...
and the oil assholes are just gonna shrug and say sorry?  fuck that.  I just can't even express how pissed i am about this.  throw the book at these dick-whacks.  "oh, i'm so sorry i fucked up your state for decades to come" 

:thisisterrible::badmanthisfeels:

Member banned for this post.

Don't call people names.

-johnm214


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Edited by johnm214 (05/24/15 12:06 PM)


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: ballsalsa]
    #21717029 - 05/24/15 10:18 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Take some deep breathes and count to 10 before you post again.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21717042 - 05/24/15 10:29 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

dude, they already closed sardine season early because the numbers were too low.  We already have more starving sea lion pups than  normal because the warm water is inhibiting plankton growth which in turn inhibits anchovies and sardines etc., which in turn leaves the marine mammals with nothing to eat.  benthic species that aren't as mobile as fish are have no chance in an oil spill.  once that shit coats the bottom, all the worms, crabs, urchins, seastars, amphipods that live in the substrate, and of course the marine algae, are toast


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InvisibleKurt
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21717052 - 05/24/15 10:33 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I saw it in the local paper in San luis Obispo, and I am moving to Santa Barbara this week so maybe I bit down a little too hard for personal reasons, my apologies.

I am not sure what "should" be to a national news and was not wholly aware, but I'd stand by saying its not "just" media sensationalism.

To those concerned, is a small oil spill nothing when a big one is inexcusable and indefensible? These oil guys use the same response in any case, "we are sorry it happened at all". That is what I meant by deflationary, to anyone concerned. Peace.


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InvisibleSun King
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21717072 - 05/24/15 10:44 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
actual oil spills.





What is an actual oil spill?


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: Sun King]
    #21717175 - 05/24/15 11:19 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Exxon Valdez spilled 11-38 million gallons of oil into the ocean in 1989.  I consider that a real oil spill.  What happened in Santa Barbara is stupid as fuck and shouldn't happen, but with little bit of time removed from the event to get away from knee jerk reactions you'll realize it's TINY.  So small I'd consider it an accident not an oil spill.

The BP oil spill in the U.S. Gulf, about 210,000,000 gallons were spilled.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21717197 - 05/24/15 11:23 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

remember how much BP was trying to downplay it for the first 2 weeks?


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: ballsalsa]
    #21717248 - 05/24/15 11:45 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
remember how much BP was trying to downplay it for the first 2 weeks?



Yeah this isn't the same thing my friend.


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InvisibleSun King
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21717283 - 05/24/15 12:01 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

They already shutdown the pipeline that caused the in-actual spill. The BP spill went on for a long time.


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InvisibleKurt
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: ballsalsa]
    #21717292 - 05/24/15 12:03 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Again cognitive shift, reaction is pretty warranted if you are close enough to have seen this, and such a reaction is inspired by, and speaks to actual, factual events.

On the other hand, a reaction (dialogue) about what should and should not be heard in the media - in other words, a reaction in regards to ideas, and how they should or shouldn't be represented - this is really what shows a "knee jerk" reaction.

You can open up the paper and see things you don't care about you know. Yes news can be slanted, or indifferent to some things which are important. But just the same, news is intended to present things people would not otherwise know or care about, to their possible concern.

Anyway your way of engaging in the dialogue you think should not exist, for whatever reason, towards quietism, or towards deflating the impression of what has occured, sounds alot like the statements of oil companies, even if you may have different reasons to say what you do. What are your reasons of concern here, other than your general astuteness to political events?

In short and frankness, this is an actual event, and only a reactive response would say otherwise. Maybe you could clarify what you are saying.


Edited by Kurt (05/24/15 12:14 PM)


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InvisibleKurt
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21717297 - 05/24/15 12:04 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
remember how much BP was trying to downplay it for the first 2 weeks?



Yeah this isn't the same thing my friend.




The general response in human affairs is the same. "We are sorry" and will hope and wait for this to blow over. Like you say, it will.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: Kurt]
    #21717311 - 05/24/15 12:12 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Kurt said:
I am not sure what you are saying John. I have lived and worked here on the land for a few years, and love it. That of course doesn't exclude the land's biodiversity or ecosystems, or namely what it is.





I'm saying that I think you are being quite accurate when you identify the issue as one of personal, human, distress rather than some ecological problem.

All this concern about the environment for its own sake seems dishonest to me. Who cares if the western titmouse goes extinct? Who cares if oil covers the beaches?  We do, obviously, because it looks nasty and makes it harder to catch yummy fish, and so forth, but lets not pretend there's some overarching "way its supposed to be" that we are defending.

I just find many environmentalists proclaimed defense of some natural order to be bullshit. People don't want the environment trashed for personal reasons, all this talk of defense of nature is just bullshit to cast their selfish motives in a better light and hide their motives from themselves. i.e. the animals living make us feel better but have no clear ecological significance- if they die some new equilibrium with new species will form in the future and any preference between these two points is entirely anthropocentric


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InvisibleKurt
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: johnm214]
    #21717323 - 05/24/15 12:19 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Maybe you misunderstand when I said that I think nature is best found for personally ascribed reasons. You would see that is exactly what I said if you read close to my response to you.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: Kurt]
    #21717445 - 05/24/15 01:01 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

The "bottom line" is that once the ocean(s) are fucked, WE meaning all species, are fucked.  Plankton not only feeds the oceans, but provides much of the oxygen we rely on as land creatures, for just one example.  I'm not sure why anyone would defend a company that has not properly maintained their pipeline as in this case, and it failed.  This in particular is a company cited many times over many years for spills.  A bad of the bad offender.  Why are we defending their "right" to pollute?  They should face criminal charges at some point for poisoning the environment due to their negligence.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: johnm214]
    #21717517 - 05/24/15 01:31 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I agree, it's anthropocentric, the loss of the diversity can be a risk for humans in local habitats and humans as a whole, if the total biomass is decreased by the loss of diversity. A new equilibrium may decrease the human population carrying capacity of environment, through mineralization of land leading to desertification.


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InvisibleKurt
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: falcon]
    #21718183 - 05/24/15 05:00 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Plains All American is among the worst violators listed by the U.S. Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Administration.

It surpassed all but four of more than 1,700 operators in safety and maintenance infractions, the federal agency said.

Hodgins suggested the comparison wasn't fair because "we're also much larger than those companies that we were compared to."

"Most of the companies that we're compared to have half the amount of pipelines" that Plains All American has, Hodgins said Friday. "So therefore, with double the number of miles of pipelines, unfortunately incidents have occurred, (and) the larger and the more of those can be realized."




If something is clearly indefensible, something to "deeply regret" (on and on) is in other consideration it is a statistic, and standard, an economy of such incidents being rationalized, what does this say?

The obvious, that a real statement is being made according to this generally privatized industry, which is either not being regulated enough, or is not being held responsible for its actions (including unintended consequences).


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: ballsalsa]
    #21722797 - 05/25/15 09:44 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
This isn't Kuwait folks, just a little media sensationalism.





fuck yourself.  you live on the california coast?  probably not.  drill baby drill right?  fuck that.  there plenty of untapped oil and gas ON LAND where spills can at least be somewhat contained. 

Quote:

Dude, the estimated 105,000 gallons of oil, 21,000 gallons along the beach.




yeah, these initial estimates are usually accurate and never understate the damage...refugio state beach closed till past labor day...what about the businesses in the area that rely on summer beachgoers to make their livings?  This whole thing sucks so many bowls of dicks.  The Southern California coastline is one of the last decent fisheries left in the damn world.  Anyone who says that this will have no effect on fishing is a fool.  the kelp forests are the flagship ecosystem around here, and kelp can't anchor to fucking oil.  No Kelp Forest=no habitat for numerous species like Calico bass, kelp wrasse, etc.  the marine ecosystem is already strained by unusually warm water around here, and now this...
and the oil assholes are just gonna shrug and say sorry?  fuck that.  I just can't even express how pissed i am about this.  throw the book at these dick-whacks.  "oh, i'm so sorry i fucked up your state for decades to come" 

:thisisterrible::badmanthisfeels:

Member banned for this post.

Don't call people names.

-johnm214






who did i call a name in this post john?

the oil assholes?
the dick-whacks responsible?
the fools who think it won't affect fishing?

certainly not anyone on this site, so why the ban?
did you misunderstand my post?


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: Kurt]
    #21722973 - 05/25/15 10:43 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I don't know. I'll delete the infraction. FYI, telling people to fuck themselves is risky as well.

Quote:

Kurt said:
Maybe you misunderstand when I said that I think nature is best found for personally ascribed reasons. You would see that is exactly what I said if you read close to my response to you.





No, I was agreeing w/ you. I understood your post and agree that it was an honest way to look at the situation and favor a clean environment without, imo, dishonest appeals to some pristine naturalism where endangered parasites are preserved for no other reason than that they once existed.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Santa Barbara oil spill [Re: johnm214]
    #21725863 - 05/26/15 06:15 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, in fact let's do away with all parasites.  We don't need them!


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