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OfflineWAN
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"If two people want to fuck, let them fuck"
    #21700268 - 05/19/15 09:48 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Hello.  I was arguing with this apparently liberal guy online some years back.  We were talking about inter-racial dating and such, and he made this statement.  I then pressed him:  If we allow two people of different racial backgrounds to fuck, or pretty much do whatever they want, why can't we allow people (who are White) to decide for and among themselves that they only want to live with and among others who are white?"  And to this he had no response.

My question to this board:  assuming you are someone who maintains that people of different racial backgrounds should be allowed to do whatever they want between the two of them.  Why don't you extend the same right to white people?

Thanks.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: WAN]
    #21700289 - 05/19/15 09:56 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

No one is arguing that white people should have to fuck black people.  Or live with black people.  What you do with your private life is no one else's business.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineWAN
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21700296 - 05/19/15 09:58 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

But aren't companies in the States forced to hire a certain number/percentage of black employees.

Also, if some white people in the States want to have a "Whites-only" living space, its actually allowed?


Edited by WAN (05/19/15 10:00 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: WAN]
    #21700311 - 05/19/15 10:04 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

What you can do with your private life is much different that what you can do with your business.

But no, companies in the States are not forced to hire a certain number/percentage of black employees.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineWAN
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21700330 - 05/19/15 10:10 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
What you can do with your private life is much different that what you can do with your business.




Why though?

Quote:


But no, companies in the States are not forced to hire a certain number/percentage of black employees.




Don't you guys have affirmative action? 

Also, this: if some white people in the States want to have a "Whites-only" living space, its actually allowed?


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: WAN]
    #21700404 - 05/19/15 10:35 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

WAN said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
What you can do with your private life is much different that what you can do with your business.




Why though?



Because of public opinion.  Most people believe you should have the right to choose your own friends and lovers; but most don't think it's fair to prevent qualified people from working in a job they're qualified for.  Hence the Civil Right Act of 1964.

Quote:

WAN said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
companies in the States are not forced to hire a certain number/percentage of black employees.




Don't you guys have affirmative action?



Only in the Government.  We certainly don't want our own Government discriminating against our own people.

Quote:

WAN said:
Also, this: if some white people in the States want to have a "Whites-only" living space, its actually allowed?



It depends on what you mean by "living space".  If they're in the same home, then you're free to select whatever room mates you want.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineWAN
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #21700463 - 05/19/15 10:56 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

WAN said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
What you can do with your private life is much different that what you can do with your business.




Why though?



Because of public opinion.  Most people believe you should have the right to choose your own friends and lovers; but most don't think it's fair to prevent qualified people from working in a job they're qualified for.  Hence the Civil Right Act of 1964.




But by your reasoning, people can also say that someone (who is presumably black) who is "lovable enough", shouldn't be prevented from becoming your lover or friends.  Therefore, if some white person has mostly white friends, associates and lovers he or she should be forced to get more black friends/lovers etc.  I know this sounds far-fetched, but it IS what would happen if your line of logic is taken to its logical conclusion.

The way I see it, I will hire whoever I want for my business.  It is my own private enterprise and I shall do what I please with it.  If I want to undercut the success of my company by hiring less incompetent, but white, people, I should fully have the right to do so.
Quote:


Quote:

WAN said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
companies in the States are not forced to hire a certain number/percentage of black employees.




Don't you guys have affirmative action?



Only in the Government.  We certainly don't want our own Government discriminating against our own people.




I can't comment further on this because I am not familiar with your country (I am Canadian).  The kinds of things I have heard about the States lead me to believe that private businesses are forced to hire black employees.
Quote:


Quote:

WAN said:
Also, this: if some white people in the States want to have a "Whites-only" living space, its actually allowed?



It depends on what you mean by "living space".  If they're in the same home, then you're free to select whatever room mates you want.




What if I want to form a club, say some sort of golf club, but I also want to restrict membership to white people?  I buy the land, the facilities, pay for the staff and everything.  It is completely my own and private.  I dont want black people in my golf club.  Is this allowed?


Edited by WAN (05/19/15 10:57 PM)


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InvisibleJayZ Morgan
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: WAN]
    #21700492 - 05/19/15 11:07 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I don't consider myself comfortable in black neighborhoods because a white person doesn't belong in the black ghetto/ latin barrio unless they were raised there or looking for drugs.

A few years back in San Jose Ca. a bunch of German people wanted to celebrate their heritage by having a parade  & beer fest although were denied the rights because it was German Pride.

BET is a black only television network because 99% of TV is directed towards white folks. Give them what they want.

People are people - IMO full time working families in the ghetto should not  be living below the poverty line  - its not an issue of Ethnicity


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: JayZ Morgan] * 1
    #21700538 - 05/19/15 11:18 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Well, there is a 'National Association For The Advancement of Colored People'

and 'The United Negro College Fund'......

But I bet if someone started a 'United Caucasian College Fund' or 'The National Association For The Advancement of White People' they would get run out of town for being 'racist'


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OfflineWAN
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: starfire_xes]
    #21700547 - 05/19/15 11:20 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Well, there is a 'National Association For The Advancement of Colored People'

and 'The United Negro College Fund'......

But I bet if someone started a 'United Caucasian College Fund' or 'The National Association For The Advancement of White People' they would get run out of town for being 'racist'




I don't doubt you for one second.  Question is: is that fair to white people?  Question 2: why do we allow this blatant discrimination against white people?


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: WAN]
    #21700786 - 05/20/15 12:43 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

WAN said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Most people believe you should have the right to choose your own friends and lovers; but most don't think it's fair to prevent qualified people from working in a job they're qualified for.  Hence the Civil Right Act of 1964.



But by your reasoning, people can also say that someone (who is presumably black) who is "lovable enough", shouldn't be prevented from becoming your lover or friends.  Therefore, if some white person has mostly white friends, associates and lovers he or she should be forced to get more black friends/lovers etc.  I know this sounds far-fetched, but it IS what would happen if your line of logic is taken to its logical conclusion.



No, because my line of logic (and the majority of people's line) is that private life and public life should be treated differently.

Quote:

WAN said:
The way I see it, I will hire whoever I want for my business.  It is my own private enterprise and I shall do what I please with it.  If I want to undercut the success of my company by hiring less incompetent, but white, people, I should fully have the right to do so.



Easy to say if you're not the person getting screwed out of a job.

Quote:

WAN said:
The kinds of things I have heard about the States lead me to believe that private businesses are forced to hire black employees.



They're not allowed to discriminate.  If a more qualified minority applies for a job at your company, then you're supposed to give it to him.  But there's no quota or minimum.

Quote:

WAN said:
What if I want to form a club, say some sort of golf club, but I also want to restrict membership to white people?  I buy the land, the facilities, pay for the staff and everything.  It is completely my own and private.  I dont want black people in my golf club.  Is this allowed?



You can do that.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (05/20/15 01:45 AM)


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Offlineusulpsychonaut
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21701459 - 05/20/15 07:53 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Desegregation Busing. Allot of white kids never got to choose to attend a white school.

Some damned fine Colorado Hispanic Caterers put on a white appreciation day, with discounts for white customers. There should be allot more of this, from non-whites. Stop beating us down, we are only human.


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OfflineThaj
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #21702689 - 05/20/15 03:09 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Those debates are created by opressed or self hated people in one way or  the other. There is no need for such thing if you love yourself and mankind,  because if you do, you will be able to understand this and why goverment promotes segregation among people. It would be colour, sex, religion etc..the recipe is always the same. Get out of this tumbler and see thing from above


--------------------
There is no real sin but lessons yet to be learned.

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21703048 - 05/20/15 04:47 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Why should public opinion force business to hire less competent people to fill some quota? Next you will tell us there are no quotas but if that is true, why do companies get sued by the injustice dept if they don't have "enough" blacks?


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlineqman
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21703283 - 05/20/15 05:40 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Why should public opinion force business to hire less competent people to fill some quota? Next you will tell us there are no quotas but if that is true, why do companies get sued by the injustice dept if they don't have "enough" blacks?




Of course there are quotas in the corporate world, I knew of a attorney that worked with the EEOC on a daily basis making sure the company had enough minorities. 

It's really about putting incompetent people into positions where they can't cause too much damage to the company, it's a challenging task.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21703432 - 05/20/15 06:24 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Why should public opinion force business to hire less competent people to fill some quota?



It shouldn't and it doesn't. 

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Next you will tell us there are no quotas but if that is true, why do companies get sued by the injustice dept if they don't have "enough" blacks?



There are no quotas.  However, companies aren't allowed to discriminate, and if they turn down a highly qualified minority for a lesser qualified white person, they can get in trouble.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21703993 - 05/20/15 08:13 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

>There are no quotas...

Lol, called it. But then of course you go on to say "blah blah blah, there are quotas" No one is turning down qualified people, they are trying to hire the best but your govt demands a quota of blacks, Hispanics, etc. So the most qualified person loses out. Just as our industrial competitiveness loses out. Think china has a quota? Ha!

qman
>It's really about putting incompetent people into positions where they can't cause too much damage to the company, it's a challenging task.

Exactly! Its a modern form of featherbedding. In the past crooked unions had "jobs" for their cronies that didn't require work, they just showed up to collect a check. Now the govt forces companies to hire people based on race to fill an idiotic quota. Which doesn't exist except if the company doesn't meet the quota then you find out the hard way it does exist.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21704205 - 05/20/15 09:08 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
There are no quotas...



Lol, called it. But then of course you go on to say "blah blah blah, there are quotas"



No I don't go on to say there are quotas.  There are no quotas.

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
No one is turning down qualified people, they are trying to hire the best but your govt demands a quota of blacks, Hispanics, etc. So the most qualified person loses out. Just as our industrial competitiveness loses out. Think china has a quota? Ha!



No, that's not true, unless you know something that I don't know (please provide a link).

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Now the govt forces companies to hire people based on race to fill an idiotic quota. Which doesn't exist except if the company doesn't meet the quota then you find out the hard way it does exist.



Show us all an example of this, please.  :popcorn:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21704506 - 05/20/15 10:25 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Why should public opinion force business to hire less competent people to fill some quota? Next you will tell us there are no quotas but if that is true, why do companies get sued by the injustice dept if they don't have "enough" blacks?




I've never heard of a private company getting sued for not having enough minorities. Can you provide a link?


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21705521 - 05/21/15 08:06 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

If a company wants to do business with the govt they have to fill the quotas.

"When a private company sells more than $50,000 in products or services to the federal government and employs at least 50 workers, it must develop a written affirmative action plan, or AAP"

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/affirmative-action-handled-private-companies-72536.html

So any company that gets large must accept the quotas or give up any govt related business. Then of course there are discrimination lawsuits in which they allege they didn't get the raise, get hired, get promoted etc because they were black or female or Hispanic etc. To "prove" their claim, they always use statistics. If the company doesn't have "enough" negroes, then that is considered de facto evidence of discrimination and they have to pay.

So, as fal says, there are no written laws mandating quotas, but if your company has not filled its non existent quota, there is a price to pay. Shadow quotas exist and enforce discrimination, the hiring of unqualified people and so on.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21706499 - 05/21/15 01:57 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

WAN said:
Don't you guys have affirmative action?



Only in the Government.  We certainly don't want our own Government discriminating against our own people.



"When a private company sells more than $50,000 in products or services to the federal government and employs at least 50 workers, it must develop a written affirmative action plan, or AAP"



Yup, that's what I said.  But there's no quotas.

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
So any company that gets large must accept the quotas or give up any govt related business.



No, there are no quotas.

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
So, as fal says, there are no written laws mandating quotas, but if your company has not filled its non existent quota, there is a price to pay. Shadow quotas exist and enforce discrimination, the hiring of unqualified people and so on.



Only if you discriminate and hire less qualified people over more qualified minorities.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21706739 - 05/21/15 02:56 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

>Only if you discriminate and hire less qualified people over more qualified minorities.

Horseshit! you have shown nothing to back that up. A company that hires the best candidates but does not meet the shadow quota of negroes, Hispanics, women, etc gets hammered. Statistics are all they need to justify a lawsuit which the feds will gladly instigate themselves.

The truth is, contrary to your constant left wing propaganda, that companies do hire the best and brightest. They pay headhunters a bonus to find these people. They don't care if they are blue with green polka dots, they want qualified people. Instead, they are forced to turn down more qualified candidates and hire less qualified minorities to appease the pc govt.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #21707461 - 05/21/15 06:47 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
there are no written laws mandating quotas, but if your company has not filled its non existent quota, there is a price to pay.



Quote:

Stonehenge said:
A company that hires the best candidates but does not meet the shadow quota of negroes, Hispanics, women, etc gets hammered. Statistics are all they need to justify a lawsuit which the feds will gladly instigate themselves.





Can you please provide an example of a company getting sued because they didn't meet some quota of minorities?


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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Offlineqman
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21710329 - 05/22/15 12:28 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.civilrights.org/equal-opportunity/care.html

"Critics of equal opportunity programs sometimes disingenuously inject the issue of "quotas" into the public debate. The Supreme Court has repeatedly made clear the quotas are illegal and that properly-designed equal opportunity programs simply create opportunity for qualified women and people of color...While these programs do not guarantee success, they DO ALLOW FACTORS SUCH AS RACE, ETHNICITY, OR GENDER TO BE AMONG THOSE CONSIDERED IN EVALUATING QUALIFIED CANDIDATES."

http://www.eeoc.gov/employers/reporting.cfm

"The EEOC collects workforce data from employers with more than 100 employees...it is not voluntary...Each of the reports COLLECTS DATA ABOUT GENDER AND RACE by some type of job grouping"

No quotas, but you must tell us everything about the race and sex of your employees, yeah right.  :lol:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/examiner-editorial-feds-push-hiring-quotas-for-women-and-minorities/article/2538018

"With the new financial regulation, the Federal government is moving from outlawing discrimination to setting up a system of quotas. Ultimately the only way that financial firms doing business with the government would be able to comply with the law is by showing that a certain percentage of their workforce is female or minority"

So yes quotas are "technically" not legal, but they are a reality in the private sector, only a blind person would deny this fact.


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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman]
    #21710347 - 05/22/15 12:33 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

>So yes quotas are "technically" not legal, but they are a reality in the private sector, only a blind person would deny this fact.

Or fool


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21710394 - 05/22/15 12:46 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>So yes quotas are "technically" not legal, but they are a reality in the private sector, only a blind person would deny this fact.

Or fool




I can't believe people are even debating this subject, why do they think many companies have minorities working there that are completely incompetent?  Just to make fun of them?  :lol:


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman]
    #21710542 - 05/22/15 01:28 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
The Supreme Court has repeatedly made clear the quotas are illegal and that properly-designed equal opportunity programs simply create opportunity for qualified women and people of color...While these programs do not guarantee success, they DO ALLOW FACTORS SUCH AS RACE, ETHNICITY, OR GENDER TO BE AMONG THOSE CONSIDERED IN EVALUATING QUALIFIED CANDIDATES."



You've just proven the point that quotas don't exist.

Quote:

qman said:
http://www.eeoc.gov/employers/reporting.cfm

"The EEOC collects workforce data from employers with more than 100 employees...it is not voluntary...Each of the reports COLLECTS DATA ABOUT GENDER AND RACE by some type of job grouping"

No quotas, but you must tell us everything about the race and sex of your employees, yeah right.  :lol:



That's correct. 

Quote:

qman said:
"With the new financial regulation, the Federal government is moving from outlawing discrimination to setting up a system of quotas. Ultimately the only way that financial firms doing business with the government would be able to comply with the law is by showing that a certain percentage of their workforce is female or minority"



That law doesn't exist.  Please read my signature.

Quote:

qman said:
So yes quotas are "technically" not legal, but they are a reality in the private sector, only a blind person would deny this fact.



You've just helped show the opposite.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21710757 - 05/22/15 02:22 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
There are no quotas.  However, companies aren't allowed to discriminate, and if they turn down a highly qualified minority for a lesser qualified white person, they can get in trouble.




My company discriminates and has never got in trouble.  Women and minorities are highly favored over white males and this has been laid out as the goal every time we hire somebody.  Though its not explicit in the law, discrimination rarely applies to discrimination against white males.  Discrimination against white males in institutionalized and is standard operating procedure for most companies and all govt. organizations (in the US).


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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21710777 - 05/22/15 02:29 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
The Supreme Court has repeatedly made clear the quotas are illegal and that properly-designed equal opportunity programs simply create opportunity for qualified women and people of color...While these programs do not guarantee success, they DO ALLOW FACTORS SUCH AS RACE, ETHNICITY, OR GENDER TO BE AMONG THOSE CONSIDERED IN EVALUATING QUALIFIED CANDIDATES."



You've just proven the point that quotas don't exist.

Quote:

qman said:
http://www.eeoc.gov/employers/reporting.cfm

"The EEOC collects workforce data from employers with more than 100 employees...it is not voluntary...Each of the reports COLLECTS DATA ABOUT GENDER AND RACE by some type of job grouping"

No quotas, but you must tell us everything about the race and sex of your employees, yeah right.  :lol:



That's correct. 

Quote:

qman said:
"With the new financial regulation, the Federal government is moving from outlawing discrimination to setting up a system of quotas. Ultimately the only way that financial firms doing business with the government would be able to comply with the law is by showing that a certain percentage of their workforce is female or minority"



That law doesn't exist.  Please read my signature.

Quote:

qman said:
So yes quotas are "technically" not legal, but they are a reality in the private sector, only a blind person would deny this fact.



You've just helped show the opposite.  :shrug:




No I didn't, I clearly showed that the government is heavily involved maintaining quotas that they claim doesn't exist.

Talk to anyone that works in a large corporation, it's a known fact. I knew an attorney that worked at a fortune 200 corporation, their job was dealing with the EEOC on a daily basis, guess what they discussed? :lol:


Edited by qman (05/22/15 02:58 PM)


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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21710866 - 05/22/15 02:49 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

>That law doesn't exist.

Its an unwritten law. If it was written, it would be struck down as unconstitutional because you can't come right out and say there are quotas and that white males can be discriminated against. So, to avoid scotus problems, they claim any company with less than a certain percentage of blacks,  etc, is discriminating against said minority, or majority in the case of women. To fight it takes millions of dollars of overpaid lawyers many times to win and then they just come back the next year with another bogus lawsuit. Its far cheaper to hire incompetent minorities than to fight the idiot govt and possibly lose which would be far more costly. Juries tend to be pc and believe authority figures.

Any black person who can read and write, do arithmetic, is willing to take the job and show up on time can have a job for the asking. They go to the head of the line and get to pick and chose what they will accept.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman]
    #21711380 - 05/22/15 05:08 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
I clearly showed that the government is heavily involved maintaining quotas that they claim doesn't exist.



No, that wasn't shown whatsoever.  Why don't you show an example of a company that got in trouble for not meeting a quota (that doesn't even exit).


--------------------
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21711649 - 05/22/15 06:29 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
I clearly showed that the government is heavily involved maintaining quotas that they claim doesn't exist.



No, that wasn't shown whatsoever.  Why don't you show an example of a company that got in trouble for not meeting a quota (that doesn't even exit).




I had to look really hard to find these. Must have taken a few seconds at least. Are you going to use the tried and true left wing tactic of sneering at the sources? Each one came from a different source but good luck.

http://www.herald-dispatch.com/news/x1641591713/Security-officer-files-gender-discrimination-lawsuit
HUNTINGTON - A courthouse security officer alleges she was passed over for employment and forced to wait for adequate training in a gender discrimination lawsuit

http://www.thedailytimes.com/news/state_region/ruby-tuesday-to-pay-to-settle-eeoc-sex-discrimination-lawsuit/article_260dd899-11d0-5d61-b51c-0042d9e8a967.html

http://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/news/local/somerset-county/2015/05/22/somerville-racism-lawsuit-million-dollars/27803149/
SOMERVILLE –  The cost for the borough to settle last fall an extremely critical racial discrimination lawsuit filed by three black municipal workers was $1.75 million
Ruby Tuesday to pay $100,000 to settle EEOC sex discrimination lawsuit

http://www.tribtown.com/view/story/76069733fa3a4fb682686f2f4cbb2a31/NM--Hispanic-Ranchers-Lawsuit
a group of Hispanic ranchers is suing the U.S. Forest Service over a decision to limit grazing on historic land grant areas in northern New Mexico.

http://newsradio1310.com/red-robin-facing-discrimination-lawsuit-in-north-idaho/
Stacie Ward of Post Falls filed the whistleblower lawsuit on Tuesday, contending that a manager at the Coeur d’Alene restaurant refused to consider a job applicant because he was black

Read More: Red Robin Facing Discrimination Lawsuit in North Idaho | http://newsradio1310.com/red-robin-facing-discrimination-lawsuit-in-north-idaho/?trackback=tsmclip


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #21711788 - 05/22/15 07:17 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Stone, did you read any of those links before you posted them? They are all supporting a claim OPPOSITE the one you support or have nothing at all to do with what you are claiming. See below.



Link 1: A woman claims she wasn't hired because she was a woman. The company told her there was a hiring freeze, but interviewed a number of men during the time they claimed the freeze was happening. So the company is being sued, not for not meeting a quota of minorities, but an apparently sexist hiring process.

Quote:

"County officials then explained she had been "third on the list" and a hiring freeze would prevent immediate employment.

But the lawsuit contends no such hiring freeze was in place and interviews continued with other candidates. That included interviews with men in August and September 2014, despite their applications having been filed after Fouch's."




Link 2: They denied men employment, which is why they are being sued. A majority group gets denied employment and you claim it's evidence that the company is sued because they didn't meet quotas of minorities? :confused:

Quote:

"The federal agency charged that Ruby Tuesday denied two male employees the opportunity to work as servers at Park City in the summer of 2013."





Link 3: Black people suing because they worked in hostile and racist work environment. Again, what does this have to do with quotas?

Quote:

"The employees had claimed they had been "subjected to a racially hostile" and a "toxic racist" work environment for more than two decades, routinely called by racial slurs, unfairly held back from job promotions and that top-ranking borough officials did little or nothing to stop the abuse or rein in what Borough Administrator Kevin Sluka reportedly called Somerville's "old boys club.""




Link 4: This has nothing to do with quotas at all. Its about grazing land.

Quote:

"a group of Hispanic ranchers is suing the U.S. Forest Service over a decision to limit grazing on historic land grant areas in northern New Mexico."




Link 5: An employee complained that a manager wasn't hiring black people and got fired. So she sued. This has nothing to do with the companies not having minorities, and everything to do with an employee being fired for raising concerns.

Quote:

"Stacie Ward of Post Falls filed the whistleblower lawsuit on Tuesday, contending that a manager at the Coeur d’Alene restaurant refused to consider a job applicant because he was black, and that when she protested, managers retaliated by making up complaints about her and firing her."






So, can you provide a case where a company was actually sued because they didn't meet a quota? Please read the link before you post it so that it's actually relevant. You might have to spend more than a few seconds.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21713741 - 05/23/15 10:40 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

You beat me to it Bold.  You're exactly right, his articles prove companies are not using quotas.  :toast:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21714025 - 05/23/15 12:25 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
You beat me to it Bold.  You're exactly right, his articles prove companies are not using quotas.  :toast:




Well, they don't exactly prove that companies are not using quotas, but they sure don't do anything to support that notion. According to Stone, examples of companies being sued for not meeting quotas are abundant, but I've yet to see one. Wonder why that is?


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21714567 - 05/23/15 03:30 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

>his articles prove companies are not using quotas.

Are you blind? I gave articles showing there are lots of lawsuits over alleged discrimination. If there was no unwritten law saying they must meet a percentage, quota, target, or whatever euphemism you prefer, how could the lawsuits succeed?


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21714578 - 05/23/15 03:34 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I'll ask again, did you even read the links you posted? All of them are about discrimination against a majority group, outright racism/sexism, or have nothing at all do with anything we've been discussing. There is NOTHING that has anything to do with quotas of minorities.

EDIT: :lol::lol: Stone put me on ignore. I guess he doesn't like it when people point out that he's wrong. Looks like it will be up to you Fal.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


Edited by BoldAsLove (05/23/15 03:37 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21716025 - 05/23/15 11:30 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Well, they don't exactly prove that companies are not using quotas, but they sure don't do anything to support that notion.



You're absolutely right.

Stone - in case you have BoldAsLove on ignore, here is his last reply to you.  He's absolutely correct with his logic - your links didn't show anything about people being forced to hire minorities:

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
I'll ask again, did you even read the links you posted? All of them are about discrimination against a majority group, outright racism/sexism, or have nothing at all do with anything we've been discussing. There is NOTHING that has anything to do with quotas of minorities.




--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21716879 - 05/24/15 08:56 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Fal, you seem to suffer from a bad case of leftidosis. You just parrot the same thing over and over. No one is saying there is a written law setting quotas. What my links showed is that if a company does not follow the unwritten rules, they get sued. Get it?

A big lawsuit costs a lot of money to defend. Are you with me so far? Companies do not like to spend millions on legal costs with no results except to wait for the next lawsuit. So, to avoid the constant expense and possibly ruinous outcome if they lose, they meekly hire more negroes than they need, more women, Hispanics, gays, handicapped, native americans, etc. And if it makes their staff bloated and incompetent, at least they can continue to do business.

If you can't follow that then I will no longer try to explain.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21719075 - 05/24/15 10:17 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
You beat me to it Bold.  You're exactly right, his articles prove companies are not using quotas.  :toast:




Answer the question I asked before, why do corporations hire any incompetent minorities at all? And why do they continually hire them after so many bad experiences?  Just for the fun of it.

You do not have an answer for it, quotas are a reality despite the fact it's illegal.

Guess what happens when a incompetent minority gets dismissed from a corporation?  They get replaced by another minority!!  I wonder why that happens.  :lol:


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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21719394 - 05/25/15 01:13 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Fal, you seem to suffer from a bad case of leftidosis. You just parrot the same thing over and over. No one is saying there is a written law setting quotas. What my links showed is that if a company does not follow the unwritten rules, they get sued. Get it?



Your examples did not show anything about companies getting sued for not hiring enough minorities.  They got sued for other reasons.

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
A big lawsuit costs a lot of money to defend. Are you with me so far?



So far, so good.

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Companies do not like to spend millions on legal costs with no results except to wait for the next lawsuit. So, to avoid the constant expense and possibly ruinous outcome if they lose, they meekly hire more negroes than they need, more women, Hispanics, gays, handicapped, native americans, etc. And if it makes their staff bloated and incompetent, at least they can continue to do business.



They're free to do that if they want, but they WON'T get in trouble for not hiring a quota, because there is no quota.  Unless you can find an example of a company that actually got in trouble for not hiring enough of a minority.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: [Re: qman]
    #21719399 - 05/25/15 01:15 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Answer the question I asked before, why do corporations hire any incompetent minorities at all? And why do they continually hire them after so many bad experiences?  Just for the fun of it.



For the same reason they hire so many incompetent white people.  Because you can't judge all employees by an interview.

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
You do not have an answer for it, quotas are a reality despite the fact it's illegal.

Guess what happens when a incompetent minority gets dismissed from a corporation?  They get replaced by another minority!!  I wonder why that happens.  :lol:



Do they?  Can you prove that's true?  :popcorn:


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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: starfire_xes]
    #21719405 - 05/25/15 01:20 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Well, there is a 'National Association For The Advancement of Colored People'and 'The United Negro College Fund'......





I just wanted to add "The United Honkey Justice League." A group of specially trained militia targeting white on white violence.


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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21719761 - 05/25/15 05:38 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.adversity.net/c14_tbd.htm

Texaco:  A Case Study in Racial Intimidation!
Firm Pays $176 Million to Avoid Years
of Government Harassment
Also pays additional millions to buy-off Jesse Jackson, the NAACP, the Urban League and others.


Texaco Buys Temporary Freedom from Racial Harassment:  In late 1996, and in early 1997, Texaco, Inc. agreed to a settlement of over $176 million in order to bring to an end a profit-killing vendetta by the NAACP -- aided by the U.S. Department of Justice and the U.S. EEOC -- for Texaco's alleged racial discrimination.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21719926 - 05/25/15 07:25 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Your latest case was about Texaco discriminating against its black employees.  This discrimination was even caught on tape by a senior personnel coordinator.  It wasn't about Texaco not hiring enough blacks.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21720031 - 05/25/15 08:20 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

It showed the extortion tactics used by your people

When some greedy fool wants to prove a discrimination case all they have to show is that the applicant had the minimum qualifications and was not hired while a white person was. That's all they have to show. The employer can state they didn't like the person's attitude but if its a minority, that will not fly. They have to justify every action.

http://www.scu.edu/ethics/publications/iie/v5n2/affirmative.html

Time has not quelled controversy over policies of preferential treatment. First instituted in the 1960s and 1970s by employers and educational institutions in response to pressures from civil rights groups, federal legislation, and court rulings, preferential treatment programs seek to rectify the effects of past and ongoing discrimination against women and racial minorities. These programs are designed as temporary measures to increase the employment and educational opportunities available to qualified women and minorities by giving them preference in hiring, promotion, and admission.

But, we are wasting our breath on you. None so blind as those who will not see.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlineqman
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Re: [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21720146 - 05/25/15 09:28 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Answer the question I asked before, why do corporations hire any incompetent minorities at all? And why do they continually hire them after so many bad experiences?  Just for the fun of it.



For the same reason they hire so many incompetent white people.  Because you can't judge all employees by an interview.

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
You do not have an answer for it, quotas are a reality despite the fact it's illegal.

Guess what happens when a incompetent minority gets dismissed from a corporation?  They get replaced by another minority!!  I wonder why that happens.  :lol:



Do they?  Can you prove that's true?  :popcorn:




"for the same reason they hire so many incompetent white people"

No it's not the same reason, it has nothing to do with the interviewing process.

"Can you prove that's true?"

When you have to fire a incompetent minority and then replace them with another one, it's very obvious to everyone in the department what is going on, again if you choose to be blind to this reality so be it.


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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman]
    #21720162 - 05/25/15 09:37 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I guess you are in the US. Here in Europe we employ whomever is the best, most qualified candidate. WTF has colour got to do with commercial success ?


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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Ron Leake]
    #21721187 - 05/25/15 02:41 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Different people say different things, so who is right?  Falcon or Stone?


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Offlineqman
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Ron Leake]
    #21721328 - 05/25/15 03:12 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Ron Leake said:
I guess you are in the US. Here in Europe we employ whomever is the best, most qualified candidate. WTF has colour got to do with commercial success ?




We have people that believe cultural diversity must be a very high priority in all aspects of life, it constantly backfires as it does nothing more than build resentment and puts incompetency on full display, it's a failed concept.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21722433 - 05/25/15 08:25 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
It showed the extortion tactics used by your people



What extortion tactics?  The Government wasn't even involved in that case.  Your article said that there was an audio recording proving Texaco management was racist, and so they got sued.  Nothing about them not meeting quotas.

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
When some greedy fool wants to prove a discrimination case all they have to show is that the applicant had the minimum qualifications and was not hired while a white person was. That's all they have to show.  The employer can state they didn't like the person's attitude but if its a minority, that will not fly. They have to justify every action.



And you haven't shown an article that proves this.

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
http://www.scu.edu/ethics/publications/iie/v5n2/affirmative.html

Time has not quelled controversy over policies of preferential treatment. First instituted in the 1960s and 1970s by employers and educational institutions in response to pressures from civil rights groups, federal legislation, and court rulings, preferential treatment programs seek to rectify the effects of past and ongoing discrimination against women and racial minorities. These programs are designed as temporary measures to increase the employment and educational opportunities available to qualified women and minorities by giving them preference in hiring, promotion, and admission.

But, we are wasting our breath on you. None so blind as those who will not see.



It's me that's wasting time on you.  You just brought up an example of quotas being used in Government, not private industry.  I acknowledged that happens in one of my first posts in this thread.


--------------------
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: [Re: qman]
    #21722445 - 05/25/15 08:27 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
"Can you prove that's true?"

When you have to fire a incompetent minority and then replace them with another one, it's very obvious to everyone in the department what is going on, again if you choose to be blind to this reality so be it.



I agree.  Now can you find an example of this happening in industry, or are you just making things up?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21722807 - 05/25/15 09:46 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Fal has sharpened up his negativity game by butting heads with enlil. We've show everything you demanded and if you don't accept it, that's your problem.

I've shown that countless lawsuits are filed almost every time a minority doesn't get something he/she wants. The employer has to jump through hoops to show it wasn't prejudice.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21722843 - 05/25/15 09:55 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
We've show everything you demanded and if you don't accept it, that's your problem.



Which link showed someone getting in trouble for not meeting a quota?  I only saw links where people got in trouble for racism.

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
I've shown that countless lawsuits are filed almost every time a minority doesn't get something he/she wants.



No, what you've shown is lawsuits of minorities suing for wrongful discrimination.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21724019 - 05/26/15 08:37 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/labor/235568-courts-remind-eeoc-again-background-checks-dont-equal-racism

When the EEOC gets desperate they pull out all the nonsense, even that criminal background checks were racist. :facepalm:  At least the courts overruled it.


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Re: [Re: qman]
    #21724110 - 05/26/15 09:07 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.law360.com/articles/424985/bass-pro-can-t-shake-eeoc-s-race-discrimination-suit

"The EEOC sued Bass Pro in Sept. 2011...According to the lawsuit Morris (the owner and founder) answered a question about racial quotas, posed at a meeting of store managers in 2004 or 2005, by saying, "the company will never have a quota system because that's not the type of people I want working in my stores."

So if one even suggests that they don't believe in a quota system the government comes after you, why does the EEOC care who Bass Pro hires?  Again, it's the same out bullshit, "there's no such thing as quotas, but you need to hire MORE black people".  :huxleyfacepalm:

"Judge Ellison said Morris' statement displays a "discriminatory attitude", it is insufficient to conclude that any Bass Pro hiring decisions were linked to his comments. Bass Pro has denied the EEOC discrimination claims and disputes that Morris made the comment"

Once again a judge has to fight off the EEOC and its "you're a racist employer if you don't hire more blacks."


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Re: [Re: qman]
    #21724405 - 05/26/15 10:57 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
http://www.law360.com/articles/424985/bass-pro-can-t-shake-eeoc-s-race-discrimination-suit

"The EEOC sued Bass Pro in Sept. 2011...According to the lawsuit Morris (the owner and founder) answered a question about racial quotas, posed at a meeting of store managers in 2004 or 2005, by saying, "the company will never have a quota system because that's not the type of people I want working in my stores."

So if one even suggests that they don't believe in a quota system the government comes after you, why does the EEOC care who Bass Pro hires?  Again, it's the same out bullshit, "there's no such thing as quotas, but you need to hire MORE black people".  :huxleyfacepalm:

"Judge Ellison said Morris' statement displays a "discriminatory attitude", it is insufficient to conclude that any Bass Pro hiring decisions were linked to his comments. Bass Pro has denied the EEOC discrimination claims and disputes that Morris made the comment"

Once again a judge has to fight off the EEOC and its "you're a racist employer if you don't hire more blacks."




Exactly, this is the kind of bullshit they pull all the time. I'm waiting for black owned businesses to be sued because they don't have enough whites but it will never happen. They don't even want background checks because they know negroes often have crimes on their record and that disqualifies them.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: [Re: qman]
    #21724501 - 05/26/15 11:31 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
According to the lawsuit Morris (the owner and founder) answered a question about racial quotas, posed at a meeting of store managers in 2004 or 2005, by saying, "the company will never have a quota system because that's not the type of people I want working in my stores."

So if one even suggests that they don't believe in a quota system the government comes after you, why does the EEOC care who Bass Pro hires?  Again, it's the same out bullshit, "there's no such thing as quotas, but you need to hire MORE black people".



The lawsuit wasn't about how they answered the question, nor about quotas.  It was about the company's practice of not hiring blacks and minorities.

Again, the question is whether or not there are hiring quotas in private industry.  There are not, and so far no one has shown there are.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21724763 - 05/26/15 12:48 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
According to the lawsuit Morris (the owner and founder) answered a question about racial quotas, posed at a meeting of store managers in 2004 or 2005, by saying, "the company will never have a quota system because that's not the type of people I want working in my stores."

So if one even suggests that they don't believe in a quota system the government comes after you, why does the EEOC care who Bass Pro hires?  Again, it's the same out bullshit, "there's no such thing as quotas, but you need to hire MORE black people".



The lawsuit wasn't about how they answered the question, nor about quotas.  It was about the company's practice of not hiring blacks and minorities.

Again, the question is whether or not there are hiring quotas in private industry.  There are not, and so far no one has shown there are.




"The lawsuit wasn't about...quotas...It was about...not hiring (a certain number of) blacks and minorities"
:huxleyfacepalm:

No quotas but you must employ a certain number of blacks or you will get sued for discriminatory hiring practices.

Fal, just give it up already, the point has been proven numerous times to you, all you are doing is engaging in a debate of semantics, that's all you got left.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: [Re: qman]
    #21724774 - 05/26/15 12:51 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
No quotas but you must employ a certain number of blacks or you will get sued for discriminatory hiring practices.

Fal, just give it up already, the point has been proven numerous times to you, all you are doing is engaging in a debate of semantics, that's all you got left.



Ok, so what was the "certain number" in this case?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21724828 - 05/26/15 01:13 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
No quotas but you must employ a certain number of blacks or you will get sued for discriminatory hiring practices.

Fal, just give it up already, the point has been proven numerous times to you, all you are doing is engaging in a debate of semantics, that's all you got left.



Ok, so what was the "certain number" in this case?




The company already had a good percentage of blacks and Hispanics as employees (including managers), but it wasn't enough according to the EEOC, if you want to hang your hat on the fact that the EEOC won't suggest (at least publicly) a "certain number" that meets their standard so therefore a quota policy doesn't exist, you have failed.


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Re: [Re: qman]
    #21724877 - 05/26/15 01:26 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.law360.com/articles/477768/eeoc-must-prove-tactics-in-30m-bass-pro-deal-proper


EEOC looking for a $30 million settlement.  :rofl2:

"The EEOC also provided statistical evidence providing a glimpse into (a certain number?) HOW FEW HISPANIC AND BLACKS, work at Bass Pro. In 2010, 4.3 percent of the chain 8.839 employees were black, the EEOC states. Hispanics comprised 6.2 percent of the company's workforce"

Wow, for a government agency not concerned about a "certain number" of black/Hispanic employees working at Bass Pro, they sure keep track and then determine "how few" of them are employed, the next thing you know they want a $30 million settlement.  :rofl2:


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Re: [Re: qman]
    #21725038 - 05/26/15 02:15 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

>Fal, just give it up already, the point has been proven numerous times to you, all you are doing is engaging in a debate of semantics, that's all you got left.

He never admits anything. He will be dead a week and still arguing with the devil saying 'prove I'm dead'


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: [Re: qman] * 1
    #21726241 - 05/26/15 07:54 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
http://www.law360.com/articles/477768/eeoc-must-prove-tactics-in-30m-bass-pro-deal-proper


EEOC looking for a $30 million settlement.  :rofl2:

"The EEOC also provided statistical evidence providing a glimpse into (a certain number?) HOW FEW HISPANIC AND BLACKS, work at Bass Pro. In 2010, 4.3 percent of the chain 8.839 employees were black, the EEOC states. Hispanics comprised 6.2 percent of the company's workforce"

Wow, for a government agency not concerned about a "certain number" of black/Hispanic employees working at Bass Pro, they sure keep track and then determine "how few" of them are employed, the next thing you know they want a $30 million settlement.  :rofl2:




Here are the court documents related to the case. The issue in this case is NOT whether or not Bass Pro Shops met a quota. It's whether or not human resources was directed to prefer white candidates. That would be clearly illegal based on current anti-discrimination laws.

From the court documents you can see that the plaintiffs argue that Morris (founder and majority owner) said "this company will never have a quota system because that's not the kind of people I want working in my stores." They also argue that there was a "Profile" which was used by Human Resources Managers as a directive to hire white candidates. If this is true, it's clearly discrimination. The defendants suggest the quote was simply suggesting that quotas are illegal.

This case is not an example of a company being sued because they didn't meet a quota of minorities. It is an example of a company being sued because it is alleged that they willingly discriminated against minorities in the hiring process. It is one thing to not hire a minority applicant, but it is entirely another to actively discriminate against them.

So, can you provide an example where a company actually was sued because they didn't meet some tacit quota? This case, quite clearly, does not fit the bill.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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Re: [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21726247 - 05/26/15 07:55 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>Fal, just give it up already, the point has been proven numerous times to you, all you are doing is engaging in a debate of semantics, that's all you got left.

He never admits anything. He will be dead a week and still arguing with the devil saying 'prove I'm dead'




Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, meet pot.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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Re: [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21726419 - 05/26/15 08:28 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

qman said:
http://www.law360.com/articles/477768/eeoc-must-prove-tactics-in-30m-bass-pro-deal-proper


EEOC looking for a $30 million settlement.  :rofl2:

"The EEOC also provided statistical evidence providing a glimpse into (a certain number?) HOW FEW HISPANIC AND BLACKS, work at Bass Pro. In 2010, 4.3 percent of the chain 8.839 employees were black, the EEOC states. Hispanics comprised 6.2 percent of the company's workforce"

Wow, for a government agency not concerned about a "certain number" of black/Hispanic employees working at Bass Pro, they sure keep track and then determine "how few" of them are employed, the next thing you know they want a $30 million settlement.  :rofl2:




Here are the court documents related to the case. The issue in this case is NOT whether or not Bass Pro Shops met a quota. It's whether or not human resources was directed to prefer white candidates. That would be clearly illegal based on current anti-discrimination laws.

From the court documents you can see that the plaintiffs argue that Morris (founder and majority owner) said "this company will never have a quota system because that's not the kind of people I want working in my stores." They also argue that there was a "Profile" which was used by Human Resources Managers as a directive to hire white candidates. If this is true, it's clearly discrimination. The defendants suggest the quote was simply suggesting that quotas are illegal.

This case is not an example of a company being sued because they didn't meet a quota of minorities. It is an example of a company being sued because it is alleged that they willingly discriminated against minorities in the hiring process. It is one thing to not hire a minority applicant, but it is entirely another to actively discriminate against them.

So, can you provide an example where a company actually was sued because they didn't meet some tacit quota? This case, quite clearly, does not fit the bill.




Did you read anything I posted, did I say the case was about "quotas"?  No I didn't, what is it with you and Falcon,  why the lack of reading comprehension? 

It's NOT ABOUT MEETING A PUBLICLY MANDATED quota, it's a opinion about "how few Hispanic and blacks" are employed at Bass Pro in the EEOC's opinion and then being charged with hiring discrimination for not hiring enough (quota, wink, wink) of Hispanics and blacks.

That's the same dam policy as having mandated quotas, there is NO difference, anyone who has experience in the corporate world could explain this very basic concept to both you and Falcon.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: [Re: qman] * 1
    #21726443 - 05/26/15 08:36 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I'll ask you the same question, did you read anything that I posted?

This case is not about how few Hispanics and Blacks work there. The plaintiffs are arguing that there was a directive to prefer white applicants over minority ones. There is a huge difference between not hiring "enough" (however many that is) minorities and actively discriminating against them. The latter is illegal.


--------------------
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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: WAN]
    #21726542 - 05/26/15 09:01 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

WAN said:
why can't we allow people (who are White) to decide for and among themselves that they only want to live with and among others who are white?"




White people do have this right. I don't know what on earth gave you the impression that they didn't. This is pretty basic freedom of movement. You're completely free to move to an all white town no matter what your motive for moving there is.

However, if you want to move there because you don't want to live around people of other races, that's still racist. It's legal, but it's racist.

Before you jump on me for that, honestly, I don't feel comfortable living in or walking around in areas that are like 99% black. I would definitely avoid living in such a place. That's still racist though. I am racist for feeling like that, but at the same time, I'm perfectly free to feel like that, and to move where ever I want to based on my racist feelings.

There are things like freedom of expression, freedom of speech and so on and so fourth in America. You can live, and feel, and believe whatever you want to.


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Re: [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21727937 - 05/27/15 09:29 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
I'll ask you the same question, did you read anything that I posted?

This case is not about how few Hispanics and Blacks work there. The plaintiffs are arguing that there was a directive to prefer white applicants over minority ones. There is a huge difference between not hiring "enough" (however many that is) minorities and actively discriminating against them. The latter is illegal.




"actively discriminating against them"

Which was impossible to prove in the first case before the court, which got it dismissed. At the end of the day the EEOC was using statistics which showed nothing more than "not hiring enough" to prove their case.


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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: nooneman]
    #21727950 - 05/27/15 09:32 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Quote:

WAN said:
why can't we allow people (who are White) to decide for and among themselves that they only want to live with and among others who are white?"




White people do have this right. I don't know what on earth gave you the impression that they didn't. This is pretty basic freedom of movement. You're completely free to move to an all white town no matter what your motive for moving there is.

However, if you want to move there because you don't want to live around people of other races, that's still racist. It's legal, but it's racist.

Before you jump on me for that, honestly, I don't feel comfortable living in or walking around in areas that are like 99% black. I would definitely avoid living in such a place. That's still racist though. I am racist for feeling like that, but at the same time, I'm perfectly free to feel like that, and to move where ever I want to based on my racist feelings.

There are things like freedom of expression, freedom of speech and so on and so fourth in America. You can live, and feel, and believe whatever you want to.




"I don't feel comfortable living in or walking around in areas that are like 99% black...That's still racist though"

No, it's not racist, it's rational for very obvious reasons.


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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: WAN]
    #21728770 - 05/27/15 01:31 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

WAN said:
why can't we allow people (who are White) to decide for and among themselves that they only want to live with and among others who are white?"


    Social media can fuck over a business .  Do you think anyone smart enough to own large company these days is going to move to a fuck all you black people town . I know some people who own a couple hotels and one of their biggest concerns  is what people say about them on the Internet .  There aren't that many buisness models I can think of that would survive serving only white people .  Confederate flag bikinis and tshirts might be hit though .
    What I really want to know is how people like you plan to get rid of the minorities who are already there when you decide to make a town all white ?  Never been anywhere that had zero people of some kind of color ? Perhaps you could call up the kkk and ask them what to do about that problem .


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21729940 - 05/27/15 07:03 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
This case is not about how few Hispanics and Blacks work there. The plaintiffs are arguing that there was a directive to prefer white applicants over minority ones. There is a huge difference between not hiring "enough" (however many that is) minorities and actively discriminating against them. The latter is illegal.



Exactly.  :thumbup:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlineusulpsychonaut
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Thaj]
    #21730625 - 05/27/15 10:49 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Thaj said:
Those debates are created by opressed or self hated people in one way or  the other. There is no need for such thing if you love yourself and mankind,  because if you do, you will be able to understand this and why government promotes segregation among people. It would be colour, sex, religion etc..the recipe is always the same. Get out of this tumbler and see thing from above




It was 'Government' that forced desegregation of American schools. It is government that forces 'Tolerance'. Of course tolerance implies something unpleasant. No one tolerates anything that is agreeable. So what is oppression? Tolerance. Free people do not tolerate.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: [Re: qman]
    #21730645 - 05/27/15 10:57 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:

"actively discriminating against them"

Which was impossible to prove in the first case before the court, which got it dismissed. At the end of the day the EEOC was using statistics which showed nothing more than "not hiring enough" to prove their case.




Statistics were a small part of the EEOC case. The meat of it was the founder of the company saying "...that's not the kind of people I want working in my stores" and the alleged directive to prefer white applicants.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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Offlineusulpsychonaut
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: psilynut]
    #21730655 - 05/27/15 11:01 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

psilynut said:
Quote:

WAN said:
why can't we allow people (who are White) to decide for and among themselves that they only want to live with and among others who are white?"


    Social media can fuck over a business .  Do you think anyone smart enough to own large company these days is going to move to a fuck all you black people town . I know some people who own a couple hotels and one of their biggest concerns  is what people say about them on the Internet .  There aren't that many buisness models I can think of that would survive serving only white people .  Confederate flag bikinis and tshirts might be hit though .
    What I really want to know is how people like you plan to get rid of the minorities who are already there when you decide to make a town all white ?  Never been anywhere that had zero people of some kind of color ? Perhaps you could call up the kkk and ask them what to do about that problem .




Of course white folks - what ever they are - cannot and will not be granted any choices. Its a hard times only. The hatred is politically correct and the masses will take their revenge on whites. Death camps are coming. It is and will happen again. Whites were the only race that dropped racism. The least racist race on the planet are whites. We are ready for our punishment. Bring it on and get it over with. Guess no one will give a shit and give us a holy land like the Jews got. Fuck even Hitler assisted the formation of the new Isreal. Go ahead, hate us, kill us all off there is nothing we can do about it. I strongly suspect that once we are all dead there will be no such thing as human rights, it will be back to might is right. Only the law of tooth and claw. Enjoy your Chinese masters and Sharia Law. There certainly will not be any psychedelic forums allowed.


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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #21732219 - 05/28/15 11:39 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

This is the best part of it.  http://www.vdare.com/articles/abolishing-america-contd-do-whites-have-rights

"In the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission blacks comprise 46.4 percent of the employees. The "affirmative action" or racial quota target for proportional representation for the EEOC is 6.4% black employees. Blacks are thus over represented in EEOC employment by 625%"  :rofl2:

I think we all now understand why this EEOC is nothing more than a complete joke.


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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman]
    #21732848 - 05/28/15 02:48 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Exactly.  :thumbup:


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman]
    #21733084 - 05/28/15 04:00 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
I think we all now understand why this EEOC is nothing more than a complete joke.




If it looks and smells like a turd...


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman]
    #21733198 - 05/28/15 04:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
"In the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission blacks comprise 46.4 percent of the employees. The "affirmative action" or racial quota target for proportional representation for the EEOC is 6.4% black employees. Blacks are thus over represented in EEOC employment by 625%"  :rofl2:

I think we all now understand why this EEOC is nothing more than a complete joke.



The question still is not about the numbers (it never is).  The question is whether blacks get preferential hiring treatment over more qualified whites. If so, then the EEOC could be sued for discrimination.  If the discrepancy is simply because blacks are more interested in EEOC positions, and apply at a much higher rate, then there's not a discrimination problem.  See how that works?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21733449 - 05/28/15 05:21 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
"In the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission blacks comprise 46.4 percent of the employees. The "affirmative action" or racial quota target for proportional representation for the EEOC is 6.4% black employees. Blacks are thus over represented in EEOC employment by 625%"  :rofl2:

I think we all now understand why this EEOC is nothing more than a complete joke.



The question still is not about the numbers (it never is).  The question is whether blacks get preferential hiring treatment over more qualified whites. If so, then the EEOC could be sued for discrimination.  If the discrepancy is simply because blacks are more interested in EEOC positions, and apply at a much higher rate, then there's not a discrimination problem.  See how that works?




>The question still is not about the numbers (it never is).

Its always about the numbers. Instead of calling it a quota, they call it a "target" or a goal or some other euphemism so the dishonest lefties can say there is no quota.

>The question is whether blacks get preferential hiring treatment over more qualified whites

Clearly they do, we see all these discrimination lawsuits and the percentage of blacks or whatever group is trying to gain an advantage is central. Not enough negroes and its considered damn near absolute proof of discrimination. Being the most qualified has nothing to do with it at this point. As long as the negro has the minimum requirements then he/she must be hired over the white to bring up the percentage.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #21734057 - 05/28/15 08:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
"In the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission blacks comprise 46.4 percent of the employees. The "affirmative action" or racial quota target for proportional representation for the EEOC is 6.4% black employees. Blacks are thus over represented in EEOC employment by 625%"  :rofl2:

I think we all now understand why this EEOC is nothing more than a complete joke.



The question still is not about the numbers (it never is).  The question is whether blacks get preferential hiring treatment over more qualified whites. If so, then the EEOC could be sued for discrimination.  If the discrepancy is simply because blacks are more interested in EEOC positions, and apply at a much higher rate, then there's not a discrimination problem.  See how that works?




Exactly. Stone and qman, you have yet to show a case where a company was successfully sued on the basis of having too few minorities. The question is whether or not a company actively discriminates, not how many minorities they hire.

If two equally qualified (however that is defined for the position) candidates apply and the minority one is chosen, it is fine. However, if the majority or minority candidate is less qualified and they are chosen, it could be discrimination. That is what a company can get sued for. Numbers do not form the basis of a lawsuit, but can provide evidence.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21734919 - 05/28/15 11:21 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Why shouldnt a business be able to discriminate?  What about women only gyms?  Can I sue them?  Do you let everyone into your house who cones to your door?  Can I sue you if you don't let me in?


--------------------
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21736135 - 05/29/15 09:40 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
"In the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission blacks comprise 46.4 percent of the employees. The "affirmative action" or racial quota target for proportional representation for the EEOC is 6.4% black employees. Blacks are thus over represented in EEOC employment by 625%"  :rofl2:

I think we all now understand why this EEOC is nothing more than a complete joke.



The question still is not about the numbers (it never is).  The question is whether blacks get preferential hiring treatment over more qualified whites. If so, then the EEOC could be sued for discrimination.  If the discrepancy is simply because blacks are more interested in EEOC positions, and apply at a much higher rate, then there's not a discrimination problem.  See how that works?




The question is whether or not a company actively discriminates, not how many minorities they hire.





That's the bullshit rationalization the EEOC uses to get its quotas, apparently you're gullible enough to believe it's propoganda.

It's funny that they only go after companies that have a below black population relative percentage?  I wonder why?  :lol:  Why can't there be "discriminatory hiring practices" when the black percentage exceeds the normal relative percentage?  Somehow the EEOC is just fine with those circumstances.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman]
    #21736717 - 05/29/15 12:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
The question is whether or not a company actively discriminates, not how many minorities they hire.



That's the bullshit rationalization the EEOC uses to get its quotas, apparently you're gullible enough to believe it's propoganda.



No one has provided evidence of hiring quotas; it's all just a conspiracy theory.

Quote:

qman said:
It's funny that they only go after companies that have a below black population relative percentage?  I wonder why?  :lol:  Why can't there be "discriminatory hiring practices" when the black percentage exceeds the normal relative percentage?  Somehow the EEOC is just fine with those circumstances.



Not true:

White firefighters awarded $2.5 million in discrimination case


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #21737193 - 05/29/15 02:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

For a guy who considers himself pretty special, you sure miss a lot (or pretend to).

Quote:

New Haven officials invalidated the test results because none of the black firefighters scored high enough to be considered for the positions. City officials stated that they feared a lawsuit over the test's disproportionate exclusion of certain racial groups from promotion under the controversial "disparate impact" theory of liability.[2][3]




You can call it a quota or a wet fart. It still smells like shit.

Does the federal government have a quota system that they have the stones to call a quota system? No, but it doesn't mean there isn't one. If they can sue because you don't have enough minorities, it's a quota system.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21737423 - 05/29/15 03:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
For a guy who considers himself pretty special, you sure miss a lot (or pretend to).

Quote:

New Haven officials invalidated the test results because none of the black firefighters scored high enough to be considered for the positions. City officials stated that they feared a lawsuit over the test's disproportionate exclusion of certain racial groups from promotion under the controversial "disparate impact" theory of liability.




You can call it a quota or a wet fart. It still smells like shit.



First of all, the article I linked to was about Buffalo firefighters, not New Haven.  But regardless, white firefighters won in BOTH of those cases, because they were wrongfully discriminated against.  It was totally incorrect to say whites can't win discrimination cases.

And no, I don't consider myself special just because I point out the flaws of your arguments; anyone can do that.

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
If they can sue because you don't have enough minorities, it's a quota system.



We're still waiting for anyone to show a case where that's happened.  In all cases shown thus far, discrimination was the deciding factor, not numbers.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21737509 - 05/29/15 04:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
anyone can do that.




Anyone can. Perhaps someday you will. Based on past performance, you lack the ability.

Regardless of your inability to do so, it doesn't matter what you call it. If you can be sued for not having enough minorities, it's a quota.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21737542 - 05/29/15 04:38 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

AA is not a quota just like the ACA is not a tax.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Shins]
    #21738092 - 05/29/15 06:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Why shouldnt a business be able to discriminate?  What about women only gyms?  Can I sue them?  Do you let everyone into your house who cones to your door?  Can I sue you if you don't let me in?




Businesses shouldn't be able to discriminate because we've decided as a society that we shouldn't allow it.

Women only gyms are fine because part of their business model is for women who feel uncomfortable around men and want a safe place. Moreover, men can go to any number of other gyms, it is not like they are being denied a service entirely.

I'm not going to answer the question about houses because you know as well as I that it is a ridiculous argument.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman] * 1
    #21738103 - 05/29/15 07:02 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
That's the bullshit rationalization the EEOC uses to get its quotas, apparently you're gullible enough to believe it's propoganda.

It's funny that they only go after companies that have a below black population relative percentage?  I wonder why? 




Because if a company doesn't discriminate against blacks then the population won't be lower. Whoops, what I meant to write is: If the population of blacks is not lower, then the company doesn't discriminate against them. It makes no sense to pursue companies who aren't being discriminatory.

Quote:

Why can't there be "discriminatory hiring practices" when the black percentage exceeds the normal relative percentage?  Somehow the EEOC is just fine with those circumstances.




Those can indeed be cases of discriminatory hiring practices. But just using the number of workers of each race is not enough to build a case.


EDIT: Wording changed.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


Edited by BoldAsLove (05/29/15 07:09 PM)


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21738110 - 05/29/15 07:03 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
If they can sue because you don't have enough minorities, it's a quota system.




Can you please provide an example where a company was sued because they didn't have enough minorities?


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21738122 - 05/29/15 07:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Because if a company doesn't discriminate against blacks then the population won't be lower. .




That's not true at all.  Why don't you assume that black discriminate against the company?  What about statistical fluctuation?  What about real cultural difference of values that lead to different skill sets and proclivities?  What about places that are filled with blacks, do they discriminate against whites?  No, that is not sufficient evidence to label them with one of the worst labels our society puts on people and groups.


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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: DieCommie]
    #21738142 - 05/29/15 07:08 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Because if a company doesn't discriminate against blacks then the population won't be lower. .




That's not true at all.  Why don't you assume that black discriminate against the company?  What about statistical fluctuation?  What about real cultural difference of values that lead to different skill sets and proclivities?  What about places that are filled with blacks, do they discriminate against whites?  No, that is not sufficient evidence to label them with one of the worst labels our society puts on people and groups.




My mistake, I got my wording backwards. What I meant to right is: "If the population of blacks is not lower, then the company doesn't discriminate against them." I'll change it.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21744921 - 05/31/15 02:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
If they can sue because you don't have enough minorities, it's a quota system.




Can you please provide an example where a company was sued because they didn't have enough minorities?




NYCFD sued because of an insufficient number of blacks.

http://nypost.com/2012/01/20/bloomberg-slams-garaufis-over-fdny-discrimination-ruling/

Quote:

Garaufis’ ruling stems from a 2007 lawsuit filed against the fire department by the US Justice Department, with the aim of forcing the city to hire more minorities at an agency where white men make up 93 percent of the 11,000 firefighters in its ranks – in a city with a far more diverse population.




They aren't hard to find.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21745011 - 05/31/15 02:30 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Maybe fal will stop his constant refrain of "show me one case" now?


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21745290 - 05/31/15 03:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Can you please provide an example where a company was sued because they didn't have enough minorities?




NYCFD sued because of an insufficient number of blacks.

http://nypost.com/2012/01/20/bloomberg-slams-garaufis-over-fdny-discrimination-ruling/

Quote:

Garaufis’ ruling stems from a 2007 lawsuit filed against the fire department by the US Justice Department, with the aim of forcing the city to hire more minorities at an agency where white men make up 93 percent of the 11,000 firefighters in its ranks – in a city with a far more diverse population.




They aren't hard to find.




The New York City Fire Department is not a company; they are government owned. Also, while the numbers may have brought the case up, the lawsuit was ultimately filed because of a written test that the FD used that did not test skills necessary for the job, but that (allegedly) was more difficult for minorities with worse education. So, the lawsuit was not because of a quota, but because of a possibly discriminatory hiring practice.

The case was resolved in a bit of a bullshit way though.

Quote:

The city, which was taken to court over allegations of institutional bias against minority FDNY applicants, agreed to “broad injunctive relief and back pay,” according to the Center for Constitutional Rights.




Why should they get back-pay? At one point there was also an argument for retroactive seniority, which would be even more bullshit, but I don't know if it was part of the settlement.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21746924 - 06/01/15 12:13 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Maybe fal will stop his constant refrain of "show me one case" now?



:facepalm3:  I said many posts ago that affirmative action DOES exist in the Government.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21747446 - 06/01/15 06:13 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
So, the lawsuit was not because of a quota, but because of a possibly discriminatory hiring practice.




:lmafo:

I didn't expect you to agree but...

Quote:

Garaufis’ ruling stems from a 2007 lawsuit filed against the fire department by the US Justice Department, with the aim of forcing the city to hire more minorities at an agency where white men make up 93 percent of the 11,000 firefighters in its ranks – in a city with a far more diverse population.




A quota by another name still smells like shit.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21748045 - 06/01/15 11:36 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
So, the lawsuit was not because of a quota, but because of a possibly discriminatory hiring practice.




:lmafo:

I didn't expect you to agree but...

Quote:

Garaufis’ ruling stems from a 2007 lawsuit filed against the fire department by the US Justice Department, with the aim of forcing the city to hire more minorities at an agency where white men make up 93 percent of the 11,000 firefighters in its ranks – in a city with a far more diverse population.




A quota by another name still smells like shit.




Please read your own article:

Quote:

The judge concluded after the trial that the low percentage of minorities in the FDNY is “a direct result and vestige of the city’s pattern and practice of discrimination against black firefighter candidates.




Quote:

The judge had ruled previously that the FDNY’s entrance test unfairly discriminates against black and Hispanic applicants.




It also bears repeating that I asked for an example of a COMPANY being sued, not a government organization. I recognize that affirmative action can get pretty egregious in the government, but this thread has been discussing whether the government forces affirmative action upon private companies.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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Offlineqman
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21748284 - 06/01/15 12:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

http://www.fredericknewspost.com/public/associated_press/maryland-today-eeoc-mccormick-schmick-s-settles-md-lawsuit/article_b5668aa4-3db9-11e4-8904-001a4bcf6878.html

"Government officials say they're settled a lawsuit accusing two McCormick & Schmick's restaurants in Baltimore of racially discriminating against job applicants and employees who are black"

"The US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission say McCormick & Schmick's agreed to settle their lawsuit...The settlement establishes a $1.3 million claims fund for eligible employees at the two restaurants. McCormick & Schmick's has also AGREED TO NUMERICAL GOALS FOR HIRING BLACK APPLICANTS."

Nothing to see here, no quotas, just move on people. :rofl2:


Edited by qman (06/01/15 12:33 PM)


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman]
    #21748333 - 06/01/15 12:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

qman, now the left wing brigade will have to make up a new story to believe in and repeat over and over.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleShins
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21748560 - 06/01/15 01:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Obamacare is not a tax

affirmative action is not a quota


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman]
    #21748807 - 06/01/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
http://www.fredericknewspost.com/public/associated_press/maryland-today-eeoc-mccormick-schmick-s-settles-md-lawsuit/article_b5668aa4-3db9-11e4-8904-001a4bcf6878.html

"Government officials say they're settled a lawsuit accusing two McCormick & Schmick's restaurants in Baltimore of racially discriminating against job applicants and employees who are black"

"The US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission say McCormick & Schmick's agreed to settle their lawsuit...The settlement establishes a $1.3 million claims fund for eligible employees at the two restaurants. McCormick & Schmick's has also AGREED TO NUMERICAL GOALS FOR HIRING BLACK APPLICANTS."

Nothing to see here, no quotas, just move on people. :rofl2:




Looks like that company was facing a shit storm in court over their hiring practices so they AGREED to have a quota to assuage the vitriol. Sucks for them, but this still isn't an example of the government forcing a quota upon a private company.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21748904 - 06/01/15 02:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

So your response to both provided  examples of government quotas boils down to ... uh-uh.

Face it, you lost that battle. The company in the article qman linked to didn't suddenly decide to adopt a quota. If the EEOC hadn't sued them, there would have been no settlement.

Quote:

Government officials say they're settled a lawsuit




Quote:

The US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission say McCormick & Schmick's agreed to settle their lawsuit




They were sued because they didn't have enough minorities.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlineqman
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21748955 - 06/01/15 02:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

qman said:
http://www.fredericknewspost.com/public/associated_press/maryland-today-eeoc-mccormick-schmick-s-settles-md-lawsuit/article_b5668aa4-3db9-11e4-8904-001a4bcf6878.html

"Government officials say they're settled a lawsuit accusing two McCormick & Schmick's restaurants in Baltimore of racially discriminating against job applicants and employees who are black"

"The US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission say McCormick & Schmick's agreed to settle their lawsuit...The settlement establishes a $1.3 million claims fund for eligible employees at the two restaurants. McCormick & Schmick's has also AGREED TO NUMERICAL GOALS FOR HIRING BLACK APPLICANTS."

Nothing to see here, no quotas, just move on people. :rofl2:




Looks like that company was facing a shit storm in court over their hiring practices so they AGREED to have a quota to assuage the vitriol. Sucks for them, but this still isn't an example of the government forcing a quota upon a private company.




http://www.businessinsurance.com/article/20140915/NEWS07/140919916

From their General Counsel, "Unfortunately, the EEOC's mission is to sensationalize and embarrass companies whenever a voluntary settlement is reached. The allegations raised by the EEOC occurred almost four years ago and ignored the fact that the two restaurants were made up of a diverse work force at all times"

He also made reference "allowed us to avoid costly and protracted litigation" to the fact that trying to fight this case in court would just be too expensive for the company and it was fiscally better for the company to just settle even though they did nothing wrong.

So not only was this a shakedown by a thug government agency, it was also a quota promise settlement.


Edited by qman (06/01/15 03:03 PM)


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21749027 - 06/01/15 03:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
So your response to both provided  examples of government quotas boils down to ... uh-uh.

Face it, you lost that battle. The company in the article qman linked to didn't suddenly decide to adopt a quota. If the EEOC hadn't sued them, there would have been no settlement.

Quote:

Government officials say they're settled a lawsuit




Quote:

The US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission say McCormick & Schmick's agreed to settle their lawsuit




They were sued because they didn't have enough minorities.




Actually, my response to your example was to point out that it isn't a private company (very important) and that they were sued for having a test that was allegedly discriminatory, not for having quotas.

My response to qman's example was to point out that although the company got boned into accepting a quota now, they weren't sued for not meeting a quota.

In both of these examples, you seem to be missing the crucial point. While the EEOC may be overzealous at times, I've yet to see an example of a private company being sued for not employing enough minorities, as has been claimed multiple times in this thread. Yet no one has yet been able to provide an example of that happening. In each example the companies minority hiring levels could be tied directly to some discriminatory practice.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman]
    #21749049 - 06/01/15 03:22 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
http://www.businessinsurance.com/article/20140915/NEWS07/140919916

From their General Counsel, "Unfortunately, the EEOC's mission is to sensationalize and embarrass companies whenever a voluntary settlement is reached. The allegations raised by the EEOC occurred almost four years ago and ignored the fact that the two restaurants were made up of a diverse work force at all times"

He also made reference "allowed us to avoid costly and protracted litigation" to the fact that trying to fight this case in court would just be too expensive for the company and it was fiscally better for the company to just settle even though they did nothing wrong.

So not only was this a shakedown by a thug government agency, it was also a quota promise settlement.




As I've said before, this company got boned into accepting a quota. Sucks for them. They weren't, however, sued for not meeting a quota. From your link:

"In a lawsuit originally filed in 2008, the EEOC also charged that black front-of-the-house workers hired at the McCormick & Schmick's and M&S Grill restaurants in Baltimore were denied equal work assignments because of their race, and that the chain's advertising for job opportunities on its website had previously contained “visual depictions of employees that expressed a preference for nonblack workers to the ordinary reader.”"

They weren't sued because they didn't have enough black people. They got sued because they allegedly refused to hire black people. There's a very big difference.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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Offlineqman
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21749082 - 06/01/15 03:30 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

qman said:
http://www.businessinsurance.com/article/20140915/NEWS07/140919916

From their General Counsel, "Unfortunately, the EEOC's mission is to sensationalize and embarrass companies whenever a voluntary settlement is reached. The allegations raised by the EEOC occurred almost four years ago and ignored the fact that the two restaurants were made up of a diverse work force at all times"

He also made reference "allowed us to avoid costly and protracted litigation" to the fact that trying to fight this case in court would just be too expensive for the company and it was fiscally better for the company to just settle even though they did nothing wrong.

So not only was this a shakedown by a thug government agency, it was also a quota promise settlement.




As I've said before, this company got boned into accepting a quota. Sucks for them. They weren't, however, sued for not meeting a quota. From your link:

"In a lawsuit originally filed in 2008, the EEOC also charged that black front-of-the-house workers hired at the McCormick & Schmick's and M&S Grill restaurants in Baltimore were denied equal work assignments because of their race, and that the chain's advertising for job opportunities on its website had previously contained “visual depictions of employees that expressed a preference for nonblack workers to the ordinary reader.”"

They weren't sued because they didn't have enough black people. They got sued because they allegedly refused to hire black people. There's a very big difference.




"They got sued because they allegedly refused to hire black people"

From the company, "diverse work force at all times including,  A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF BLACK EMPLOYEES"


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman]
    #21749102 - 06/01/15 03:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

> "diverse work force at all times including,  A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF BLACK EMPLOYEES"

But not enough to meet the quota which must never be called a quota, always something else. Its amazing how much the extreme left is in denial about these things.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman]
    #21749302 - 06/01/15 04:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

qman said:
http://www.businessinsurance.com/article/20140915/NEWS07/140919916

From their General Counsel, "Unfortunately, the EEOC's mission is to sensationalize and embarrass companies whenever a voluntary settlement is reached. The allegations raised by the EEOC occurred almost four years ago and ignored the fact that the two restaurants were made up of a diverse work force at all times"

He also made reference "allowed us to avoid costly and protracted litigation" to the fact that trying to fight this case in court would just be too expensive for the company and it was fiscally better for the company to just settle even though they did nothing wrong.

So not only was this a shakedown by a thug government agency, it was also a quota promise settlement.




As I've said before, this company got boned into accepting a quota. Sucks for them. They weren't, however, sued for not meeting a quota. From your link:

"In a lawsuit originally filed in 2008, the EEOC also charged that black front-of-the-house workers hired at the McCormick & Schmick's and M&S Grill restaurants in Baltimore were denied equal work assignments because of their race, and that the chain's advertising for job opportunities on its website had previously contained “visual depictions of employees that expressed a preference for nonblack workers to the ordinary reader.”"

They weren't sued because they didn't have enough black people. They got sued because they allegedly refused to hire black people. There's a very big difference.




"They got sued because they allegedly refused to hire black people"

From the company, "diverse work force at all times including,  A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF BLACK EMPLOYEES"




A company denying any wrongdoing? Never seen that before! There's no way they would just say that to protect themselves. :rolleyes:

Regardless, you're still missing my point. Them company was sued for an allegedly discriminatory hiring practice at a couple stores. NOT because they didn't have enough black employees.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21749310 - 06/01/15 04:30 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
> "diverse work force at all times including,  A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF BLACK EMPLOYEES"

But not enough to meet the quota which must never be called a quota, always something else. Its amazing how much the extreme left is in denial about these things.




:lol: I'm curious to know how you would describe "extreme left" because my political views are not particularly liberal.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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Offlineqman
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21750687 - 06/01/15 10:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

qman said:
http://www.businessinsurance.com/article/20140915/NEWS07/140919916

From their General Counsel, "Unfortunately, the EEOC's mission is to sensationalize and embarrass companies whenever a voluntary settlement is reached. The allegations raised by the EEOC occurred almost four years ago and ignored the fact that the two restaurants were made up of a diverse work force at all times"

He also made reference "allowed us to avoid costly and protracted litigation" to the fact that trying to fight this case in court would just be too expensive for the company and it was fiscally better for the company to just settle even though they did nothing wrong.

So not only was this a shakedown by a thug government agency, it was also a quota promise settlement.




As I've said before, this company got boned into accepting a quota. Sucks for them. They weren't, however, sued for not meeting a quota. From your link:

"In a lawsuit originally filed in 2008, the EEOC also charged that black front-of-the-house workers hired at the McCormick & Schmick's and M&S Grill restaurants in Baltimore were denied equal work assignments because of their race, and that the chain's advertising for job opportunities on its website had previously contained “visual depictions of employees that expressed a preference for nonblack workers to the ordinary reader.”"

They weren't sued because they didn't have enough black people. They got sued because they allegedly refused to hire black people. There's a very big difference.




"They got sued because they allegedly refused to hire black people"

From the company, "diverse work force at all times including,  A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF BLACK EMPLOYEES"




A company denying any wrongdoing? Never seen that before! There's no way they would just say that to protect themselves. :rolleyes:

Regardless, you're still missing my point. Them company was sued for an allegedly discriminatory hiring practice at a couple stores. NOT because they didn't have enough black employees.




"Regardless, you're still missing my point"

You have no point, I made my case.

We just continue to go in circles on this topic, I provide evidence of the EEOC busting companies for not having enough of black workers (quotas) and you say it not quotas it's discriminatory hiring practices.  :facepalm:

I provide evidence of the EEOC and the company agreeing to a quota system going forward and you say the company agreed to it and it sucks to be them, but still no quota. :facepalm:

You lost this debate, I don't think it was even close.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman] * 1
    #21750893 - 06/01/15 10:51 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
We just continue to go in circles on this topic, I provide evidence of the EEOC busting companies for not having enough of black workers (quotas) and you say it not quotas it's discriminatory hiring practices.  :facepalm:




Because in every example you provided, the EEOC could point to a specific thing the employer was doing, say it was discriminatory, and provide reasoning for the claim. If that doesn't count as discriminatory hiring practices, then how would you define a discriminatory hiring practice?

Quote:


I provide evidence of the EEOC and the company agreeing to a quota system going forward and you say the company agreed to it and it sucks to be them, but still no quota. :facepalm:




Yes, this one company agreed to a quota system. This is not the same as the EEOC forcing quotas on every company.

Quote:

You lost this debate, I don't think it was even close.




:lol: Check your ego, debates are not about winning or losing. I debate to have my views challenged and to learn new things. I've become more moderate since debating on these boards, but I don't keep a running tally of wins and losses.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman]
    #21751866 - 06/02/15 09:20 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Arguing with idiots is pointless, don't waste your effort.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21752200 - 06/02/15 10:59 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Don't be so hard on yourself.  You do make a few good points once in a while, even if you're not able to back your argument in this case.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (06/02/15 11:47 AM)


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21752929 - 06/02/15 01:56 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Fal, you have been defeated and are rambling like a drunk. You and the trolls have been disproven and any normal people would admit it and shut up.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21753098 - 06/02/15 02:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I guess we have a different idea of what "defeated" means.  To me, it means you have failed to show an example of private companies having to meet a quota.  To you, it means you've claimed victory, in spite of not having supporting evidence.  :shrug:


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #21753703 - 06/02/15 05:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Actually, lots of evidence was shown but you in characteristic fashion admit nothing. If they call it a different word than quota you say there are no quotas. Will you feel better if you get downsized than if you get fired?


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #21755108 - 06/02/15 09:57 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Will you feel better if you get downsized than if you get fired?



A perfect example to illustrate the point.

Losing a job because your company is downsizing and because you are fired for poor performance are different, even if the end result is the same to you.  Similarly, not getting hired because of a hiring quota, and not getting hired because of discrimination are also different.  A company can hire 0 minorities and still not get in any trouble if they are not discriminating.  Similarly, a company can hire 51% minorities, but still get in a lot of trouble if they are discriminating.  Two different things, whether you care about one more than the other or not.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21756384 - 06/03/15 07:35 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

>Losing a job because your company is downsizing and because you are fired for poor performance are different, even if the end result is the same to you.

They say they are downsizing or they say you are fired, no difference. But you go out the door feeling great because they said downsize instead of fired. Go out and celebrate then.

>A company can hire 0 minorities and still not get in any trouble if they are not discriminating.

Show me one large company that has 0 minorities and has not gotten into trouble? Just one.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21756899 - 06/03/15 10:47 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>Losing a job because your company is downsizing and because you are fired for poor performance are different, even if the end result is the same to you.

They say they are downsizing or they say you are fired, no difference. But you go out the door feeling great because they said downsize instead of fired. Go out and celebrate then.




There is a difference between the two. If they are actually downsizing then you likely won't be the only person leaving and they will still give you a good recommendation. If you are fired, you likely won't get a good recommendation and may be the only person leaving the company.

Quote:


>A company can hire 0 minorities and still not get in any trouble if they are not discriminating.

Show me one large company that has 0 minorities and has not gotten into trouble? Just one.




That's a ridiculous request. I doubt there is a single large company that hasn't hired a single minority.


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DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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Offlinemy3rdeye
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: WAN] * 1
    #21772825 - 06/07/15 04:25 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

WAN said:


Also, if some white people in the States want to have a "Whites-only" living space, its actually allowed?




I dont think you can post an ad on craiglist that says 2 bedroom apartment WHITES ONLY. Nothing stopping you from refusing applications from anyone you want though. There are lots of housing complexes with no blacks.
Its like employment, look at this thread, at least 70 percent racists, you cant trust these people to hire the best person with that kind of bias. Not that these people here have jobs, they are too busy crying discrimination because they have no job, trying to blame others. White racism is so entrenched these programs are needed otherwise you get some stupid white useless brother in law getting hired. Nepotism is the norm with these people.
Anyway why was there not any black firemen who died on 9-11? NYC is like half black. You cant tell me that the fire dept is not practicing systematic racism. You don't just get an all white workforce without some serious racism going on. Google fire department + racism some time. If you aren't white or Irish or wop you don't get in. But everyone keeps calling these scumbags heroes. Fuck the FDNY and any other group of entitled union losers who think they can have racist hiring practices on the taxpayers dime.


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Offlineqman
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: my3rdeye]
    #21775914 - 06/07/15 08:31 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

my3rdeye said:
Quote:

WAN said:


Also, if some white people in the States want to have a "Whites-only" living space, its actually allowed?




I dont think you can post an ad on craiglist that says 2 bedroom apartment WHITES ONLY. Nothing stopping you from refusing applications from anyone you want though. There are lots of housing complexes with no blacks.
Its like employment, look at this thread, at least 70 percent racists, you cant trust these people to hire the best person with that kind of bias. Not that these people here have jobs, they are too busy crying discrimination because they have no job, trying to blame others. White racism is so entrenched these programs are needed otherwise you get some stupid white useless brother in law getting hired. Nepotism is the norm with these people.
Anyway why was there not any black firemen who died on 9-11? NYC is like half black. You cant tell me that the fire dept is not practicing systematic racism. You don't just get an all white workforce without some serious racism going on. Google fire department + racism some time. If you aren't white or Irish or wop you don't get in. But everyone keeps calling these scumbags heroes. Fuck the FDNY and any other group of entitled union losers who think they can have racist hiring practices on the taxpayers dime.




"we can't trust these people to hire the best people with that kind of bias"  :facepalm:

Really, so a company shouldn't be in charge of who it wants to hire and a government agency should dictate what's best for them?  That's not economic freedom, that would be a dictatorship.

"You can't tell me the fire dept is not practicing systematic racism"

http://www.qchron.com/editions/queenswide/asian-firefighters-see-no-racism-in-the-fdny/article_b00166b3-d682-5d97-bb36-30188d2ff64e.html

"a group of black firefighters, who have long lamented a lack of diversity in the FDNY...claiming that the past FDNY entrance exams were BIASED, as evidenced by the SMALL number of minorities who PASSED."

So when minority applicants can't pass the test, that's racism?  No, it's incompetency.


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