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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman]
    #21748333 - 06/01/15 12:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

qman, now the left wing brigade will have to make up a new story to believe in and repeat over and over.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleShins
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21748560 - 06/01/15 01:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Obamacare is not a tax

affirmative action is not a quota


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman]
    #21748807 - 06/01/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
http://www.fredericknewspost.com/public/associated_press/maryland-today-eeoc-mccormick-schmick-s-settles-md-lawsuit/article_b5668aa4-3db9-11e4-8904-001a4bcf6878.html

"Government officials say they're settled a lawsuit accusing two McCormick & Schmick's restaurants in Baltimore of racially discriminating against job applicants and employees who are black"

"The US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission say McCormick & Schmick's agreed to settle their lawsuit...The settlement establishes a $1.3 million claims fund for eligible employees at the two restaurants. McCormick & Schmick's has also AGREED TO NUMERICAL GOALS FOR HIRING BLACK APPLICANTS."

Nothing to see here, no quotas, just move on people. :rofl2:




Looks like that company was facing a shit storm in court over their hiring practices so they AGREED to have a quota to assuage the vitriol. Sucks for them, but this still isn't an example of the government forcing a quota upon a private company.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21748904 - 06/01/15 02:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

So your response to both provided  examples of government quotas boils down to ... uh-uh.

Face it, you lost that battle. The company in the article qman linked to didn't suddenly decide to adopt a quota. If the EEOC hadn't sued them, there would have been no settlement.

Quote:

Government officials say they're settled a lawsuit




Quote:

The US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission say McCormick & Schmick's agreed to settle their lawsuit




They were sued because they didn't have enough minorities.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlineqman
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21748955 - 06/01/15 02:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

qman said:
http://www.fredericknewspost.com/public/associated_press/maryland-today-eeoc-mccormick-schmick-s-settles-md-lawsuit/article_b5668aa4-3db9-11e4-8904-001a4bcf6878.html

"Government officials say they're settled a lawsuit accusing two McCormick & Schmick's restaurants in Baltimore of racially discriminating against job applicants and employees who are black"

"The US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission say McCormick & Schmick's agreed to settle their lawsuit...The settlement establishes a $1.3 million claims fund for eligible employees at the two restaurants. McCormick & Schmick's has also AGREED TO NUMERICAL GOALS FOR HIRING BLACK APPLICANTS."

Nothing to see here, no quotas, just move on people. :rofl2:




Looks like that company was facing a shit storm in court over their hiring practices so they AGREED to have a quota to assuage the vitriol. Sucks for them, but this still isn't an example of the government forcing a quota upon a private company.




http://www.businessinsurance.com/article/20140915/NEWS07/140919916

From their General Counsel, "Unfortunately, the EEOC's mission is to sensationalize and embarrass companies whenever a voluntary settlement is reached. The allegations raised by the EEOC occurred almost four years ago and ignored the fact that the two restaurants were made up of a diverse work force at all times"

He also made reference "allowed us to avoid costly and protracted litigation" to the fact that trying to fight this case in court would just be too expensive for the company and it was fiscally better for the company to just settle even though they did nothing wrong.

So not only was this a shakedown by a thug government agency, it was also a quota promise settlement.


Edited by qman (06/01/15 03:03 PM)


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21749027 - 06/01/15 03:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
So your response to both provided  examples of government quotas boils down to ... uh-uh.

Face it, you lost that battle. The company in the article qman linked to didn't suddenly decide to adopt a quota. If the EEOC hadn't sued them, there would have been no settlement.

Quote:

Government officials say they're settled a lawsuit




Quote:

The US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission say McCormick & Schmick's agreed to settle their lawsuit




They were sued because they didn't have enough minorities.




Actually, my response to your example was to point out that it isn't a private company (very important) and that they were sued for having a test that was allegedly discriminatory, not for having quotas.

My response to qman's example was to point out that although the company got boned into accepting a quota now, they weren't sued for not meeting a quota.

In both of these examples, you seem to be missing the crucial point. While the EEOC may be overzealous at times, I've yet to see an example of a private company being sued for not employing enough minorities, as has been claimed multiple times in this thread. Yet no one has yet been able to provide an example of that happening. In each example the companies minority hiring levels could be tied directly to some discriminatory practice.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman]
    #21749049 - 06/01/15 03:22 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
http://www.businessinsurance.com/article/20140915/NEWS07/140919916

From their General Counsel, "Unfortunately, the EEOC's mission is to sensationalize and embarrass companies whenever a voluntary settlement is reached. The allegations raised by the EEOC occurred almost four years ago and ignored the fact that the two restaurants were made up of a diverse work force at all times"

He also made reference "allowed us to avoid costly and protracted litigation" to the fact that trying to fight this case in court would just be too expensive for the company and it was fiscally better for the company to just settle even though they did nothing wrong.

So not only was this a shakedown by a thug government agency, it was also a quota promise settlement.




As I've said before, this company got boned into accepting a quota. Sucks for them. They weren't, however, sued for not meeting a quota. From your link:

"In a lawsuit originally filed in 2008, the EEOC also charged that black front-of-the-house workers hired at the McCormick & Schmick's and M&S Grill restaurants in Baltimore were denied equal work assignments because of their race, and that the chain's advertising for job opportunities on its website had previously contained “visual depictions of employees that expressed a preference for nonblack workers to the ordinary reader.”"

They weren't sued because they didn't have enough black people. They got sued because they allegedly refused to hire black people. There's a very big difference.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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Offlineqman
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21749082 - 06/01/15 03:30 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

qman said:
http://www.businessinsurance.com/article/20140915/NEWS07/140919916

From their General Counsel, "Unfortunately, the EEOC's mission is to sensationalize and embarrass companies whenever a voluntary settlement is reached. The allegations raised by the EEOC occurred almost four years ago and ignored the fact that the two restaurants were made up of a diverse work force at all times"

He also made reference "allowed us to avoid costly and protracted litigation" to the fact that trying to fight this case in court would just be too expensive for the company and it was fiscally better for the company to just settle even though they did nothing wrong.

So not only was this a shakedown by a thug government agency, it was also a quota promise settlement.




As I've said before, this company got boned into accepting a quota. Sucks for them. They weren't, however, sued for not meeting a quota. From your link:

"In a lawsuit originally filed in 2008, the EEOC also charged that black front-of-the-house workers hired at the McCormick & Schmick's and M&S Grill restaurants in Baltimore were denied equal work assignments because of their race, and that the chain's advertising for job opportunities on its website had previously contained “visual depictions of employees that expressed a preference for nonblack workers to the ordinary reader.”"

They weren't sued because they didn't have enough black people. They got sued because they allegedly refused to hire black people. There's a very big difference.




"They got sued because they allegedly refused to hire black people"

From the company, "diverse work force at all times including,  A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF BLACK EMPLOYEES"


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman]
    #21749102 - 06/01/15 03:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

> "diverse work force at all times including,  A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF BLACK EMPLOYEES"

But not enough to meet the quota which must never be called a quota, always something else. Its amazing how much the extreme left is in denial about these things.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman]
    #21749302 - 06/01/15 04:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

qman said:
http://www.businessinsurance.com/article/20140915/NEWS07/140919916

From their General Counsel, "Unfortunately, the EEOC's mission is to sensationalize and embarrass companies whenever a voluntary settlement is reached. The allegations raised by the EEOC occurred almost four years ago and ignored the fact that the two restaurants were made up of a diverse work force at all times"

He also made reference "allowed us to avoid costly and protracted litigation" to the fact that trying to fight this case in court would just be too expensive for the company and it was fiscally better for the company to just settle even though they did nothing wrong.

So not only was this a shakedown by a thug government agency, it was also a quota promise settlement.




As I've said before, this company got boned into accepting a quota. Sucks for them. They weren't, however, sued for not meeting a quota. From your link:

"In a lawsuit originally filed in 2008, the EEOC also charged that black front-of-the-house workers hired at the McCormick & Schmick's and M&S Grill restaurants in Baltimore were denied equal work assignments because of their race, and that the chain's advertising for job opportunities on its website had previously contained “visual depictions of employees that expressed a preference for nonblack workers to the ordinary reader.”"

They weren't sued because they didn't have enough black people. They got sued because they allegedly refused to hire black people. There's a very big difference.




"They got sued because they allegedly refused to hire black people"

From the company, "diverse work force at all times including,  A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF BLACK EMPLOYEES"




A company denying any wrongdoing? Never seen that before! There's no way they would just say that to protect themselves. :rolleyes:

Regardless, you're still missing my point. Them company was sued for an allegedly discriminatory hiring practice at a couple stores. NOT because they didn't have enough black employees.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21749310 - 06/01/15 04:30 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
> "diverse work force at all times including,  A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF BLACK EMPLOYEES"

But not enough to meet the quota which must never be called a quota, always something else. Its amazing how much the extreme left is in denial about these things.




:lol: I'm curious to know how you would describe "extreme left" because my political views are not particularly liberal.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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Offlineqman
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21750687 - 06/01/15 10:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

qman said:
http://www.businessinsurance.com/article/20140915/NEWS07/140919916

From their General Counsel, "Unfortunately, the EEOC's mission is to sensationalize and embarrass companies whenever a voluntary settlement is reached. The allegations raised by the EEOC occurred almost four years ago and ignored the fact that the two restaurants were made up of a diverse work force at all times"

He also made reference "allowed us to avoid costly and protracted litigation" to the fact that trying to fight this case in court would just be too expensive for the company and it was fiscally better for the company to just settle even though they did nothing wrong.

So not only was this a shakedown by a thug government agency, it was also a quota promise settlement.




As I've said before, this company got boned into accepting a quota. Sucks for them. They weren't, however, sued for not meeting a quota. From your link:

"In a lawsuit originally filed in 2008, the EEOC also charged that black front-of-the-house workers hired at the McCormick & Schmick's and M&S Grill restaurants in Baltimore were denied equal work assignments because of their race, and that the chain's advertising for job opportunities on its website had previously contained “visual depictions of employees that expressed a preference for nonblack workers to the ordinary reader.”"

They weren't sued because they didn't have enough black people. They got sued because they allegedly refused to hire black people. There's a very big difference.




"They got sued because they allegedly refused to hire black people"

From the company, "diverse work force at all times including,  A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF BLACK EMPLOYEES"




A company denying any wrongdoing? Never seen that before! There's no way they would just say that to protect themselves. :rolleyes:

Regardless, you're still missing my point. Them company was sued for an allegedly discriminatory hiring practice at a couple stores. NOT because they didn't have enough black employees.




"Regardless, you're still missing my point"

You have no point, I made my case.

We just continue to go in circles on this topic, I provide evidence of the EEOC busting companies for not having enough of black workers (quotas) and you say it not quotas it's discriminatory hiring practices.  :facepalm:

I provide evidence of the EEOC and the company agreeing to a quota system going forward and you say the company agreed to it and it sucks to be them, but still no quota. :facepalm:

You lost this debate, I don't think it was even close.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman] * 1
    #21750893 - 06/01/15 10:51 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
We just continue to go in circles on this topic, I provide evidence of the EEOC busting companies for not having enough of black workers (quotas) and you say it not quotas it's discriminatory hiring practices.  :facepalm:




Because in every example you provided, the EEOC could point to a specific thing the employer was doing, say it was discriminatory, and provide reasoning for the claim. If that doesn't count as discriminatory hiring practices, then how would you define a discriminatory hiring practice?

Quote:


I provide evidence of the EEOC and the company agreeing to a quota system going forward and you say the company agreed to it and it sucks to be them, but still no quota. :facepalm:




Yes, this one company agreed to a quota system. This is not the same as the EEOC forcing quotas on every company.

Quote:

You lost this debate, I don't think it was even close.




:lol: Check your ego, debates are not about winning or losing. I debate to have my views challenged and to learn new things. I've become more moderate since debating on these boards, but I don't keep a running tally of wins and losses.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman]
    #21751866 - 06/02/15 09:20 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Arguing with idiots is pointless, don't waste your effort.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21752200 - 06/02/15 10:59 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Don't be so hard on yourself.  You do make a few good points once in a while, even if you're not able to back your argument in this case.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (06/02/15 11:47 AM)


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21752929 - 06/02/15 01:56 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Fal, you have been defeated and are rambling like a drunk. You and the trolls have been disproven and any normal people would admit it and shut up.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21753098 - 06/02/15 02:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I guess we have a different idea of what "defeated" means.  To me, it means you have failed to show an example of private companies having to meet a quota.  To you, it means you've claimed victory, in spite of not having supporting evidence.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #21753703 - 06/02/15 05:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Actually, lots of evidence was shown but you in characteristic fashion admit nothing. If they call it a different word than quota you say there are no quotas. Will you feel better if you get downsized than if you get fired?


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #21755108 - 06/02/15 09:57 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Will you feel better if you get downsized than if you get fired?



A perfect example to illustrate the point.

Losing a job because your company is downsizing and because you are fired for poor performance are different, even if the end result is the same to you.  Similarly, not getting hired because of a hiring quota, and not getting hired because of discrimination are also different.  A company can hire 0 minorities and still not get in any trouble if they are not discriminating.  Similarly, a company can hire 51% minorities, but still get in a lot of trouble if they are discriminating.  Two different things, whether you care about one more than the other or not.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21756384 - 06/03/15 07:35 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

>Losing a job because your company is downsizing and because you are fired for poor performance are different, even if the end result is the same to you.

They say they are downsizing or they say you are fired, no difference. But you go out the door feeling great because they said downsize instead of fired. Go out and celebrate then.

>A company can hire 0 minorities and still not get in any trouble if they are not discriminating.

Show me one large company that has 0 minorities and has not gotten into trouble? Just one.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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