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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
#21706499 - 05/21/15 01:57 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Stonehenge said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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WAN said: Don't you guys have affirmative action?
Only in the Government. We certainly don't want our own Government discriminating against our own people.
"When a private company sells more than $50,000 in products or services to the federal government and employs at least 50 workers, it must develop a written affirmative action plan, or AAP"
Yup, that's what I said. But there's no quotas.
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Stonehenge said: So any company that gets large must accept the quotas or give up any govt related business.
No, there are no quotas.
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Stonehenge said: So, as fal says, there are no written laws mandating quotas, but if your company has not filled its non existent quota, there is a price to pay. Shadow quotas exist and enforce discrimination, the hiring of unqualified people and so on.
Only if you discriminate and hire less qualified people over more qualified minorities.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stonehenge
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>Only if you discriminate and hire less qualified people over more qualified minorities.
Horseshit! you have shown nothing to back that up. A company that hires the best candidates but does not meet the shadow quota of negroes, Hispanics, women, etc gets hammered. Statistics are all they need to justify a lawsuit which the feds will gladly instigate themselves.
The truth is, contrary to your constant left wing propaganda, that companies do hire the best and brightest. They pay headhunters a bonus to find these people. They don't care if they are blue with green polka dots, they want qualified people. Instead, they are forced to turn down more qualified candidates and hire less qualified minorities to appease the pc govt.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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BoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge] 1
#21707461 - 05/21/15 06:47 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: there are no written laws mandating quotas, but if your company has not filled its non existent quota, there is a price to pay.
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Stonehenge said: A company that hires the best candidates but does not meet the shadow quota of negroes, Hispanics, women, etc gets hammered. Statistics are all they need to justify a lawsuit which the feds will gladly instigate themselves.
Can you please provide an example of a company getting sued because they didn't meet some quota of minorities?
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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qman
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21710329 - 05/22/15 12:28 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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http://www.civilrights.org/equal-opportunity/care.html
"Critics of equal opportunity programs sometimes disingenuously inject the issue of "quotas" into the public debate. The Supreme Court has repeatedly made clear the quotas are illegal and that properly-designed equal opportunity programs simply create opportunity for qualified women and people of color...While these programs do not guarantee success, they DO ALLOW FACTORS SUCH AS RACE, ETHNICITY, OR GENDER TO BE AMONG THOSE CONSIDERED IN EVALUATING QUALIFIED CANDIDATES."
http://www.eeoc.gov/employers/reporting.cfm
"The EEOC collects workforce data from employers with more than 100 employees...it is not voluntary...Each of the reports COLLECTS DATA ABOUT GENDER AND RACE by some type of job grouping"
No quotas, but you must tell us everything about the race and sex of your employees, yeah right. 
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/examiner-editorial-feds-push-hiring-quotas-for-women-and-minorities/article/2538018
"With the new financial regulation, the Federal government is moving from outlawing discrimination to setting up a system of quotas. Ultimately the only way that financial firms doing business with the government would be able to comply with the law is by showing that a certain percentage of their workforce is female or minority"
So yes quotas are "technically" not legal, but they are a reality in the private sector, only a blind person would deny this fact.
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Stonehenge
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman]
#21710347 - 05/22/15 12:33 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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>So yes quotas are "technically" not legal, but they are a reality in the private sector, only a blind person would deny this fact.
Or fool
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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qman
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
#21710394 - 05/22/15 12:46 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: >So yes quotas are "technically" not legal, but they are a reality in the private sector, only a blind person would deny this fact.
Or fool
I can't believe people are even debating this subject, why do they think many companies have minorities working there that are completely incompetent? Just to make fun of them?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman]
#21710542 - 05/22/15 01:28 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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qman said: The Supreme Court has repeatedly made clear the quotas are illegal and that properly-designed equal opportunity programs simply create opportunity for qualified women and people of color...While these programs do not guarantee success, they DO ALLOW FACTORS SUCH AS RACE, ETHNICITY, OR GENDER TO BE AMONG THOSE CONSIDERED IN EVALUATING QUALIFIED CANDIDATES."
You've just proven the point that quotas don't exist.
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qman said: http://www.eeoc.gov/employers/reporting.cfm
"The EEOC collects workforce data from employers with more than 100 employees...it is not voluntary...Each of the reports COLLECTS DATA ABOUT GENDER AND RACE by some type of job grouping"
No quotas, but you must tell us everything about the race and sex of your employees, yeah right. 
That's correct.
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qman said: "With the new financial regulation, the Federal government is moving from outlawing discrimination to setting up a system of quotas. Ultimately the only way that financial firms doing business with the government would be able to comply with the law is by showing that a certain percentage of their workforce is female or minority"
That law doesn't exist. Please read my signature.
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qman said: So yes quotas are "technically" not legal, but they are a reality in the private sector, only a blind person would deny this fact.
You've just helped show the opposite.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: There are no quotas. However, companies aren't allowed to discriminate, and if they turn down a highly qualified minority for a lesser qualified white person, they can get in trouble.
My company discriminates and has never got in trouble. Women and minorities are highly favored over white males and this has been laid out as the goal every time we hire somebody. Though its not explicit in the law, discrimination rarely applies to discrimination against white males. Discrimination against white males in institutionalized and is standard operating procedure for most companies and all govt. organizations (in the US).
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qman
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: The Supreme Court has repeatedly made clear the quotas are illegal and that properly-designed equal opportunity programs simply create opportunity for qualified women and people of color...While these programs do not guarantee success, they DO ALLOW FACTORS SUCH AS RACE, ETHNICITY, OR GENDER TO BE AMONG THOSE CONSIDERED IN EVALUATING QUALIFIED CANDIDATES."
You've just proven the point that quotas don't exist.
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qman said: http://www.eeoc.gov/employers/reporting.cfm
"The EEOC collects workforce data from employers with more than 100 employees...it is not voluntary...Each of the reports COLLECTS DATA ABOUT GENDER AND RACE by some type of job grouping"
No quotas, but you must tell us everything about the race and sex of your employees, yeah right. 
That's correct.
Quote:
qman said: "With the new financial regulation, the Federal government is moving from outlawing discrimination to setting up a system of quotas. Ultimately the only way that financial firms doing business with the government would be able to comply with the law is by showing that a certain percentage of their workforce is female or minority"
That law doesn't exist. Please read my signature.
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qman said: So yes quotas are "technically" not legal, but they are a reality in the private sector, only a blind person would deny this fact.
You've just helped show the opposite. 
No I didn't, I clearly showed that the government is heavily involved maintaining quotas that they claim doesn't exist.
Talk to anyone that works in a large corporation, it's a known fact. I knew an attorney that worked at a fortune 200 corporation, their job was dealing with the EEOC on a daily basis, guess what they discussed?
Edited by qman (05/22/15 02:58 PM)
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Stonehenge
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>That law doesn't exist.
Its an unwritten law. If it was written, it would be struck down as unconstitutional because you can't come right out and say there are quotas and that white males can be discriminated against. So, to avoid scotus problems, they claim any company with less than a certain percentage of blacks, etc, is discriminating against said minority, or majority in the case of women. To fight it takes millions of dollars of overpaid lawyers many times to win and then they just come back the next year with another bogus lawsuit. Its far cheaper to hire incompetent minorities than to fight the idiot govt and possibly lose which would be far more costly. Juries tend to be pc and believe authority figures.
Any black person who can read and write, do arithmetic, is willing to take the job and show up on time can have a job for the asking. They go to the head of the line and get to pick and chose what they will accept.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: qman]
#21711380 - 05/22/15 05:08 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: I clearly showed that the government is heavily involved maintaining quotas that they claim doesn't exist.
No, that wasn't shown whatsoever. Why don't you show an example of a company that got in trouble for not meeting a quota (that doesn't even exit).
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stonehenge
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: I clearly showed that the government is heavily involved maintaining quotas that they claim doesn't exist.
No, that wasn't shown whatsoever. Why don't you show an example of a company that got in trouble for not meeting a quota (that doesn't even exit).
I had to look really hard to find these. Must have taken a few seconds at least. Are you going to use the tried and true left wing tactic of sneering at the sources? Each one came from a different source but good luck.
http://www.herald-dispatch.com/news/x1641591713/Security-officer-files-gender-discrimination-lawsuit HUNTINGTON - A courthouse security officer alleges she was passed over for employment and forced to wait for adequate training in a gender discrimination lawsuit
http://www.thedailytimes.com/news/state_region/ruby-tuesday-to-pay-to-settle-eeoc-sex-discrimination-lawsuit/article_260dd899-11d0-5d61-b51c-0042d9e8a967.html
http://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/news/local/somerset-county/2015/05/22/somerville-racism-lawsuit-million-dollars/27803149/ SOMERVILLE – The cost for the borough to settle last fall an extremely critical racial discrimination lawsuit filed by three black municipal workers was $1.75 million Ruby Tuesday to pay $100,000 to settle EEOC sex discrimination lawsuit
http://www.tribtown.com/view/story/76069733fa3a4fb682686f2f4cbb2a31/NM--Hispanic-Ranchers-Lawsuit a group of Hispanic ranchers is suing the U.S. Forest Service over a decision to limit grazing on historic land grant areas in northern New Mexico.
http://newsradio1310.com/red-robin-facing-discrimination-lawsuit-in-north-idaho/ Stacie Ward of Post Falls filed the whistleblower lawsuit on Tuesday, contending that a manager at the Coeur d’Alene restaurant refused to consider a job applicant because he was black
Read More: Red Robin Facing Discrimination Lawsuit in North Idaho | http://newsradio1310.com/red-robin-facing-discrimination-lawsuit-in-north-idaho/?trackback=tsmclip
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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BoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge] 1
#21711788 - 05/22/15 07:17 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Stone, did you read any of those links before you posted them? They are all supporting a claim OPPOSITE the one you support or have nothing at all to do with what you are claiming. See below.
Link 1: A woman claims she wasn't hired because she was a woman. The company told her there was a hiring freeze, but interviewed a number of men during the time they claimed the freeze was happening. So the company is being sued, not for not meeting a quota of minorities, but an apparently sexist hiring process.
Quote:
"County officials then explained she had been "third on the list" and a hiring freeze would prevent immediate employment.
But the lawsuit contends no such hiring freeze was in place and interviews continued with other candidates. That included interviews with men in August and September 2014, despite their applications having been filed after Fouch's."
Link 2: They denied men employment, which is why they are being sued. A majority group gets denied employment and you claim it's evidence that the company is sued because they didn't meet quotas of minorities? 
Quote:
"The federal agency charged that Ruby Tuesday denied two male employees the opportunity to work as servers at Park City in the summer of 2013."
Link 3: Black people suing because they worked in hostile and racist work environment. Again, what does this have to do with quotas?
Quote:
"The employees had claimed they had been "subjected to a racially hostile" and a "toxic racist" work environment for more than two decades, routinely called by racial slurs, unfairly held back from job promotions and that top-ranking borough officials did little or nothing to stop the abuse or rein in what Borough Administrator Kevin Sluka reportedly called Somerville's "old boys club.""
Link 4: This has nothing to do with quotas at all. Its about grazing land.
Quote:
"a group of Hispanic ranchers is suing the U.S. Forest Service over a decision to limit grazing on historic land grant areas in northern New Mexico."
Link 5: An employee complained that a manager wasn't hiring black people and got fired. So she sued. This has nothing to do with the companies not having minorities, and everything to do with an employee being fired for raising concerns.
Quote:
"Stacie Ward of Post Falls filed the whistleblower lawsuit on Tuesday, contending that a manager at the Coeur d’Alene restaurant refused to consider a job applicant because he was black, and that when she protested, managers retaliated by making up complaints about her and firing her."
So, can you provide a case where a company was actually sued because they didn't meet a quota? Please read the link before you post it so that it's actually relevant. You might have to spend more than a few seconds.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21713741 - 05/23/15 10:40 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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You beat me to it Bold. You're exactly right, his articles prove companies are not using quotas.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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BoldAsLove
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: You beat me to it Bold. You're exactly right, his articles prove companies are not using quotas. 
Well, they don't exactly prove that companies are not using quotas, but they sure don't do anything to support that notion. According to Stone, examples of companies being sued for not meeting quotas are abundant, but I've yet to see one. Wonder why that is?
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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Stonehenge
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>his articles prove companies are not using quotas.
Are you blind? I gave articles showing there are lots of lawsuits over alleged discrimination. If there was no unwritten law saying they must meet a percentage, quota, target, or whatever euphemism you prefer, how could the lawsuits succeed?
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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BoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
#21714578 - 05/23/15 03:34 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'll ask again, did you even read the links you posted? All of them are about discrimination against a majority group, outright racism/sexism, or have nothing at all do with anything we've been discussing. There is NOTHING that has anything to do with quotas of minorities.
EDIT:  Stone put me on ignore. I guess he doesn't like it when people point out that he's wrong. Looks like it will be up to you Fal.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
Edited by BoldAsLove (05/23/15 03:37 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21716025 - 05/23/15 11:30 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
BoldAsLove said: Well, they don't exactly prove that companies are not using quotas, but they sure don't do anything to support that notion.
You're absolutely right.
Stone - in case you have BoldAsLove on ignore, here is his last reply to you. He's absolutely correct with his logic - your links didn't show anything about people being forced to hire minorities:
Quote:
BoldAsLove said: I'll ask again, did you even read the links you posted? All of them are about discrimination against a majority group, outright racism/sexism, or have nothing at all do with anything we've been discussing. There is NOTHING that has anything to do with quotas of minorities.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stonehenge
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Posts: 14,850
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Fal, you seem to suffer from a bad case of leftidosis. You just parrot the same thing over and over. No one is saying there is a written law setting quotas. What my links showed is that if a company does not follow the unwritten rules, they get sued. Get it?
A big lawsuit costs a lot of money to defend. Are you with me so far? Companies do not like to spend millions on legal costs with no results except to wait for the next lawsuit. So, to avoid the constant expense and possibly ruinous outcome if they lose, they meekly hire more negroes than they need, more women, Hispanics, gays, handicapped, native americans, etc. And if it makes their staff bloated and incompetent, at least they can continue to do business.
If you can't follow that then I will no longer try to explain.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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qman
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: You beat me to it Bold. You're exactly right, his articles prove companies are not using quotas. 
Answer the question I asked before, why do corporations hire any incompetent minorities at all? And why do they continually hire them after so many bad experiences? Just for the fun of it.
You do not have an answer for it, quotas are a reality despite the fact it's illegal.
Guess what happens when a incompetent minority gets dismissed from a corporation? They get replaced by another minority!! I wonder why that happens.
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