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OfflineWAN
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"If two people want to fuck, let them fuck"
    #21700268 - 05/19/15 09:48 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Hello.  I was arguing with this apparently liberal guy online some years back.  We were talking about inter-racial dating and such, and he made this statement.  I then pressed him:  If we allow two people of different racial backgrounds to fuck, or pretty much do whatever they want, why can't we allow people (who are White) to decide for and among themselves that they only want to live with and among others who are white?"  And to this he had no response.

My question to this board:  assuming you are someone who maintains that people of different racial backgrounds should be allowed to do whatever they want between the two of them.  Why don't you extend the same right to white people?

Thanks.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: WAN]
    #21700289 - 05/19/15 09:56 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

No one is arguing that white people should have to fuck black people.  Or live with black people.  What you do with your private life is no one else's business.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineWAN
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21700296 - 05/19/15 09:58 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

But aren't companies in the States forced to hire a certain number/percentage of black employees.

Also, if some white people in the States want to have a "Whites-only" living space, its actually allowed?


Edited by WAN (05/19/15 10:00 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: WAN]
    #21700311 - 05/19/15 10:04 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

What you can do with your private life is much different that what you can do with your business.

But no, companies in the States are not forced to hire a certain number/percentage of black employees.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineWAN
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21700330 - 05/19/15 10:10 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
What you can do with your private life is much different that what you can do with your business.




Why though?

Quote:


But no, companies in the States are not forced to hire a certain number/percentage of black employees.




Don't you guys have affirmative action? 

Also, this: if some white people in the States want to have a "Whites-only" living space, its actually allowed?


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: WAN]
    #21700404 - 05/19/15 10:35 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

WAN said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
What you can do with your private life is much different that what you can do with your business.




Why though?



Because of public opinion.  Most people believe you should have the right to choose your own friends and lovers; but most don't think it's fair to prevent qualified people from working in a job they're qualified for.  Hence the Civil Right Act of 1964.

Quote:

WAN said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
companies in the States are not forced to hire a certain number/percentage of black employees.




Don't you guys have affirmative action?



Only in the Government.  We certainly don't want our own Government discriminating against our own people.

Quote:

WAN said:
Also, this: if some white people in the States want to have a "Whites-only" living space, its actually allowed?



It depends on what you mean by "living space".  If they're in the same home, then you're free to select whatever room mates you want.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineWAN
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #21700463 - 05/19/15 10:56 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

WAN said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
What you can do with your private life is much different that what you can do with your business.




Why though?



Because of public opinion.  Most people believe you should have the right to choose your own friends and lovers; but most don't think it's fair to prevent qualified people from working in a job they're qualified for.  Hence the Civil Right Act of 1964.




But by your reasoning, people can also say that someone (who is presumably black) who is "lovable enough", shouldn't be prevented from becoming your lover or friends.  Therefore, if some white person has mostly white friends, associates and lovers he or she should be forced to get more black friends/lovers etc.  I know this sounds far-fetched, but it IS what would happen if your line of logic is taken to its logical conclusion.

The way I see it, I will hire whoever I want for my business.  It is my own private enterprise and I shall do what I please with it.  If I want to undercut the success of my company by hiring less incompetent, but white, people, I should fully have the right to do so.
Quote:


Quote:

WAN said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
companies in the States are not forced to hire a certain number/percentage of black employees.




Don't you guys have affirmative action?



Only in the Government.  We certainly don't want our own Government discriminating against our own people.




I can't comment further on this because I am not familiar with your country (I am Canadian).  The kinds of things I have heard about the States lead me to believe that private businesses are forced to hire black employees.
Quote:


Quote:

WAN said:
Also, this: if some white people in the States want to have a "Whites-only" living space, its actually allowed?



It depends on what you mean by "living space".  If they're in the same home, then you're free to select whatever room mates you want.




What if I want to form a club, say some sort of golf club, but I also want to restrict membership to white people?  I buy the land, the facilities, pay for the staff and everything.  It is completely my own and private.  I dont want black people in my golf club.  Is this allowed?


Edited by WAN (05/19/15 10:57 PM)


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InvisibleJayZ Morgan
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: WAN]
    #21700492 - 05/19/15 11:07 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I don't consider myself comfortable in black neighborhoods because a white person doesn't belong in the black ghetto/ latin barrio unless they were raised there or looking for drugs.

A few years back in San Jose Ca. a bunch of German people wanted to celebrate their heritage by having a parade  & beer fest although were denied the rights because it was German Pride.

BET is a black only television network because 99% of TV is directed towards white folks. Give them what they want.

People are people - IMO full time working families in the ghetto should not  be living below the poverty line  - its not an issue of Ethnicity


--------------------






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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: JayZ Morgan] * 1
    #21700538 - 05/19/15 11:18 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Well, there is a 'National Association For The Advancement of Colored People'

and 'The United Negro College Fund'......

But I bet if someone started a 'United Caucasian College Fund' or 'The National Association For The Advancement of White People' they would get run out of town for being 'racist'


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OfflineWAN
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: starfire_xes]
    #21700547 - 05/19/15 11:20 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Well, there is a 'National Association For The Advancement of Colored People'

and 'The United Negro College Fund'......

But I bet if someone started a 'United Caucasian College Fund' or 'The National Association For The Advancement of White People' they would get run out of town for being 'racist'




I don't doubt you for one second.  Question is: is that fair to white people?  Question 2: why do we allow this blatant discrimination against white people?


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: WAN]
    #21700786 - 05/20/15 12:43 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

WAN said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Most people believe you should have the right to choose your own friends and lovers; but most don't think it's fair to prevent qualified people from working in a job they're qualified for.  Hence the Civil Right Act of 1964.



But by your reasoning, people can also say that someone (who is presumably black) who is "lovable enough", shouldn't be prevented from becoming your lover or friends.  Therefore, if some white person has mostly white friends, associates and lovers he or she should be forced to get more black friends/lovers etc.  I know this sounds far-fetched, but it IS what would happen if your line of logic is taken to its logical conclusion.



No, because my line of logic (and the majority of people's line) is that private life and public life should be treated differently.

Quote:

WAN said:
The way I see it, I will hire whoever I want for my business.  It is my own private enterprise and I shall do what I please with it.  If I want to undercut the success of my company by hiring less incompetent, but white, people, I should fully have the right to do so.



Easy to say if you're not the person getting screwed out of a job.

Quote:

WAN said:
The kinds of things I have heard about the States lead me to believe that private businesses are forced to hire black employees.



They're not allowed to discriminate.  If a more qualified minority applies for a job at your company, then you're supposed to give it to him.  But there's no quota or minimum.

Quote:

WAN said:
What if I want to form a club, say some sort of golf club, but I also want to restrict membership to white people?  I buy the land, the facilities, pay for the staff and everything.  It is completely my own and private.  I dont want black people in my golf club.  Is this allowed?



You can do that.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (05/20/15 01:45 AM)


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Offlineusulpsychonaut
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21701459 - 05/20/15 07:53 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Desegregation Busing. Allot of white kids never got to choose to attend a white school.

Some damned fine Colorado Hispanic Caterers put on a white appreciation day, with discounts for white customers. There should be allot more of this, from non-whites. Stop beating us down, we are only human.


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OfflineThaj
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #21702689 - 05/20/15 03:09 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Those debates are created by opressed or self hated people in one way or  the other. There is no need for such thing if you love yourself and mankind,  because if you do, you will be able to understand this and why goverment promotes segregation among people. It would be colour, sex, religion etc..the recipe is always the same. Get out of this tumbler and see thing from above


--------------------
There is no real sin but lessons yet to be learned.

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21703048 - 05/20/15 04:47 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Why should public opinion force business to hire less competent people to fill some quota? Next you will tell us there are no quotas but if that is true, why do companies get sued by the injustice dept if they don't have "enough" blacks?


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlineqman
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21703283 - 05/20/15 05:40 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Why should public opinion force business to hire less competent people to fill some quota? Next you will tell us there are no quotas but if that is true, why do companies get sued by the injustice dept if they don't have "enough" blacks?




Of course there are quotas in the corporate world, I knew of a attorney that worked with the EEOC on a daily basis making sure the company had enough minorities. 

It's really about putting incompetent people into positions where they can't cause too much damage to the company, it's a challenging task.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21703432 - 05/20/15 06:24 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Why should public opinion force business to hire less competent people to fill some quota?



It shouldn't and it doesn't. 

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Next you will tell us there are no quotas but if that is true, why do companies get sued by the injustice dept if they don't have "enough" blacks?



There are no quotas.  However, companies aren't allowed to discriminate, and if they turn down a highly qualified minority for a lesser qualified white person, they can get in trouble.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21703993 - 05/20/15 08:13 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

>There are no quotas...

Lol, called it. But then of course you go on to say "blah blah blah, there are quotas" No one is turning down qualified people, they are trying to hire the best but your govt demands a quota of blacks, Hispanics, etc. So the most qualified person loses out. Just as our industrial competitiveness loses out. Think china has a quota? Ha!

qman
>It's really about putting incompetent people into positions where they can't cause too much damage to the company, it's a challenging task.

Exactly! Its a modern form of featherbedding. In the past crooked unions had "jobs" for their cronies that didn't require work, they just showed up to collect a check. Now the govt forces companies to hire people based on race to fill an idiotic quota. Which doesn't exist except if the company doesn't meet the quota then you find out the hard way it does exist.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21704205 - 05/20/15 09:08 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
There are no quotas...



Lol, called it. But then of course you go on to say "blah blah blah, there are quotas"



No I don't go on to say there are quotas.  There are no quotas.

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
No one is turning down qualified people, they are trying to hire the best but your govt demands a quota of blacks, Hispanics, etc. So the most qualified person loses out. Just as our industrial competitiveness loses out. Think china has a quota? Ha!



No, that's not true, unless you know something that I don't know (please provide a link).

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Now the govt forces companies to hire people based on race to fill an idiotic quota. Which doesn't exist except if the company doesn't meet the quota then you find out the hard way it does exist.



Show us all an example of this, please.  :popcorn:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21704506 - 05/20/15 10:25 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Why should public opinion force business to hire less competent people to fill some quota? Next you will tell us there are no quotas but if that is true, why do companies get sued by the injustice dept if they don't have "enough" blacks?




I've never heard of a private company getting sued for not having enough minorities. Can you provide a link?


--------------------
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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: "If two people want to fuck, let them fuck" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21705521 - 05/21/15 08:06 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

If a company wants to do business with the govt they have to fill the quotas.

"When a private company sells more than $50,000 in products or services to the federal government and employs at least 50 workers, it must develop a written affirmative action plan, or AAP"

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/affirmative-action-handled-private-companies-72536.html

So any company that gets large must accept the quotas or give up any govt related business. Then of course there are discrimination lawsuits in which they allege they didn't get the raise, get hired, get promoted etc because they were black or female or Hispanic etc. To "prove" their claim, they always use statistics. If the company doesn't have "enough" negroes, then that is considered de facto evidence of discrimination and they have to pay.

So, as fal says, there are no written laws mandating quotas, but if your company has not filled its non existent quota, there is a price to pay. Shadow quotas exist and enforce discrimination, the hiring of unqualified people and so on.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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