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OfflineAwakening
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Registered: 04/01/15
Posts: 99
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Anyone had green molds parasite on woodlover projects?
    #21667020 - 05/11/15 07:49 PM (9 years, 8 days ago)

Hi everyone. Been here for awhile now, but lost my old account password so created a new account. Have been encountering a problem for several years and i feel it requires a bit of background and explanation.

Im no beginner to all aspects of cultivation, and have cultivated many species such as oyster, shiitake, turkey tails and cubensis.

I am confident in my ability to produce quality spawn, and tell clean growth from contams, so i am sure there is no issue in regards to starting spawn, and i use agar - to run and isolate both inside and wild prints, or clone cultures from many different species, particularly wild fruits that interest me.

The species i have run to agar - grain spawn - chip are Ps. subaeruginosa, azurescens, cyanescens, makarorae, weraroa many times, subsecotioides (3 varieties), ovoideocystidiata and allenii.

This has been over the course of several years, Now heres what is happening to me.

Once i get spawn onto woodchips outside it goes absolutely ape shit and easily can double its size in 1 month for most species and will colonise the whole bed.





All is fine in the beginning during winter, but once things start to warm up, if the mycelial mat is too wet and hot i get some green mold come in, not sure if its trichoderma.






This is straight on the woodchips. Virtually nothing i do seems to stop it, im sure its parasiting the actual mycelium not the substrate so much, because the entire beds just die very quickly over summer periods. Its really setting me back from glorious fruitings.

This year i managed to plant some in a well shaded forest that survived and fruiting, and have a small patch at home going of subsecotioides, but right next to it it virtually all died off.

Note this happens with both wild transplanted spawn and my own started cultures, so im positive its not my starting material. I have tried many different types of wood mainly pine and totara which are common wood to find them on here. I also suspect we have a high mold spore count here as trichoderma has proven to be an issue in other projects in the past.

This has been going on for like 3 years now, has this happened to anyone else? Seems spots in more shade and cooler are more likely to survive, but then i see wild patches in full sunlight and really dont know what to make of it.

I havent seen anyone else encountering this problem

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Invisiblejbnz
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 05/06/11
Posts: 112
Loc: NZ
Re: Anyone had green molds parasite on woodlover projects? [Re: Awakening]
    #21696289 - 05/18/15 09:46 PM (9 years, 1 day ago)

Is the mycelium under the chips and in the soil spared (still healthy), and have the patches produced mushrooms for you at all? 

I've had a mold over-run mycelium in the past when I was trying to make a tub which looked a little similar to the above. In my case I was propagating the mycelium indoors and thought it was due higher temperatures (~25C) and lack of proper gas exchange. Doesn't look like that's your problem though.

Edit:
It looks like a Trichoderma species attacking your mycelium. If I recall correctly there are some species of trichoderma that can attack and degrade other fungi. Chances are the conditions are favorable over summer from its growth.

Edit 2:
Found this on a website:

"Necrotrophic mycoparasites, like the species of Trichoderma at right can be extremely destructive to other fungi. They often spread rapidly, completely surrounding and covering their hosts in a few hours or days. The mechanisms used by necrotrophic mycoparasites to kill their hosts are not thoroughly studied but probably involve toxins as happens with necrotrophic plant parasites. Trichoderma, the most frequently studied mycoparasite occurs in soils, rotting wood, old mushrooms and many other environments.

When it grows over another fungus it simply dissolves its host's hyphae with extracellular enzymes. This phenomenon can be interesting to observe. If a piece of a colony of a Trichoderma species is placed on the colony of another fungus, allowed to grow for a few hours and then placed under a microscope you will easily be able to see the hyphae of both fungi. However, a few days later the same examination will reveal only Trichoderma, looking healthy and vigourous.

Trichoderma species are not usually very particular about what fungi they will consume. This lack of host-specificity has made them useful as agents of biological control for plant parasites, especially those attacking roots. On the other hand, these same fungi can be highly destructive if they get into into commercial mushroom beds."


Not sure what you can really do about it though if this is the problem.

Edited by jbnz (05/18/15 10:03 PM)

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OfflineAwakening
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Registered: 04/01/15
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Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Anyone had green molds parasite on woodlover projects? [Re: jbnz]
    #21696365 - 05/18/15 10:05 PM (9 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

jbnz said:
Is the mycelium under the chips and in the soil spared (still healthy), and have the patches produced mushrooms for you at all? 

I've had a mold over-run mycelium in the past when I was trying to make a tub which looked a little similar to the above. In my case I was propagating the mycelium indoors and thought it was due higher temperatures (~25C) and lack of proper gas exchange. Doesn't look like that's your problem though.




No, it seems to kill absolutely everything if i dont move away a clean section to elsewhere and even then its hit and miss.
i dont use cardboard at the bottom of my beds anymore as i found that kept them too wet and the mold got underneath on that and killed it way faster. I have had everything die for the last few years like this after all the effort of growing out clean spawn, every bed has died before fruiting ive made until this year - the only real success i have had was expanding small amount of woodchip spawn to stick piles well in the bush in a valley which has been fruiting pretty well for what it is.

I also had a bed right next to the one pictured that was made in jan or feb with salvaged subsect mycelium from a corner before the mold killed it off. It managed to fruit recently, it was stacking out loads of pins and i carefully harvested a few bigger fruit that were ready then suddenly in the last 2 days after i harvested all the pins are fully aborting.
The pins looked unwell and touching them the caps just fall off the stem, so definitely aborting. waiting to see if it either pins again or mold shows up again in that bed.  I really wonder if im just picking the wrong locations, it seems to happen more when the mycelium is too wet and the temperature gets over a certain range. the mold doesnt get on the chip itself i dont think, it more just kills off the mycelium at a rapid rate them disappears.

So far the only mycelium that seems more resistant to it is Ps. ovoideocystidiata.

The beds were 100% colonised too when they started dieing off that were pictured. very often you cant even see the green stuff, its like a weird cobweb type coating mold. the chip just falls apart.

Letting it dry right out seemed to slow it down

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OfflineAwakening
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Registered: 04/01/15
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Re: Anyone had green molds parasite on woodlover projects? [Re: Awakening]
    #21696377 - 05/18/15 10:08 PM (9 years, 1 day ago)

just saw that edit. yea i suspect that is what it is too.

I think my best option is to find more shaded locations that keep lower temperatures and let nature do the watering.

But it doesnt make sense to me why there are patches just up the road in the blatant full sun in northland cranking out loads of subs in woodchip mulch

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InvisibleBlazer420
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Re: Anyone had green molds parasite on woodlover projects? [Re: Awakening]
    #21696529 - 05/18/15 10:39 PM (9 years, 1 day ago)

I too would like to understand what is happening here... I have had patches that pumped thousands of subs or subseco's and this year finding a handful at best.... Or either the patch has moved to a completely diff area to fruit.


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Invisiblejbnz
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Registered: 05/06/11
Posts: 112
Loc: NZ
Re: Anyone had green molds parasite on woodlover projects? [Re: Awakening]
    #21696794 - 05/19/15 12:06 AM (9 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Awakening said:
just saw that edit. yea i suspect that is what it is too.

I think my best option is to find more shaded locations that keep lower temperatures and let nature do the watering.

But it doesnt make sense to me why there are patches just up the road in the blatant full sun in northland cranking out loads of subs in woodchip mulch




That's why I was wondering how the mycelium were going under the chips / soil.

I would imagine the UV light in the sunny patches kills off any fungal growth on the surface on the woodchips which should mean there's less chance of the original mycelium being colonized by airborne Trichoderma spores (as they would all be on the underside of the chips rather than growing all over the chips).

As I said, I had the same thing happen to my trial of indoor mycelium growing (it too got established and was doing quite well then suddenly got destroyed by green mould - trich I assume). Heat and moisture build-up definitely seemed to heavily favor the mould. Outside I've never had any problems with green-moulds but I live in Canterbury which is cold in the winter and hot and dry in the summer (compared to Northland). 

Unfortunately, I think you may have been a victim of your own mycelium growing success! :tongue:
I agree your best bet is probably ensuring it's not over-watered and letting nature do its thing. Sorry for your patch loss, it looked like it was going to be amazing! :mushroom2: Let us know if you have eventual success :thumbup:


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InvisibleBluing
Subsecotioides Seeker


Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 372
Re: Anyone had green molds parasite on woodlover projects? [Re: jbnz]
    #21696853 - 05/19/15 12:39 AM (9 years, 1 day ago)

I was reading recently that P, cyanescens NEEDS to dry out over summer to fruit properly - otherwise it wont. I was then thinking about most psilocybes and that the majority of them are exposed to long, dry periods over summer. I forgot about a project last summer I had in a cardboard box that I thought was dead - was completely dried out. It is now exhibiting a strong mycelial wave.

Have had the same problem as Awakening. I think maybe you are right jbnz - perhaps we kill our projects with kindness !!


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Edited by Bluing (05/19/15 12:39 AM)

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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Anyone had green molds parasite on woodlover projects? [Re: Bluing]
    #21697023 - 05/19/15 02:47 AM (9 years, 1 day ago)

You're right haha we do kill our projects with kindness. I really have nothing to contribute and I'm jealous of you coastal people so I can't help you op. I would love to grow a bed. Still I would believe making it drier would probably help with molds imo. Isn't wood supposed to be pretty contam resistant? It also holds moisture pretty well. Just a thought op.


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OfflineEagerhunter
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Re: Anyone had green molds parasite on woodlover projects? [Re: Mad Season]
    #21734758 - 05/28/15 10:47 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

I had a similar problem over summer - some healthy mycelium around a small flax in a 10L PB that I was feeding sterlised woodchips throughout the spring and early summer, and it was going great. I covered it with cardboard and kept watering it to keep it moist. When I checked late summer - all the mycelium had gone, and it had what looked like brown rot throughout! So from what is being said here, neglect may be the best strategy.


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OfflineAwakening
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Re: Anyone had green molds parasite on woodlover projects? [Re: Eagerhunter]
    #21735379 - 05/29/15 01:58 AM (8 years, 11 months ago)

What im wondering is if Australians get these sorts of problems too, id imagine its much hotter there and the mycelium has to weather some extreme conditions over summer.

Ive read people mention that a drying out period over summer like a dormancy is required in hotter climates.

Sad thing is it still comes in winter. I think just not everyones backyards are situated in the right place. Finding a colder spot in the bush seems to work, also i have a feeling some kind of plant cover nearby like grass overgrowing it does help for most people.

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