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OfflineFromTheWild
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Review my grow.plan. Help me not fail.
    #21695881 - 05/18/15 08:21 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Before I start I want to thank everyone on the shroomery as well as a bunch of people posting how-tos on youtube. I've been amazed how helpful everyone is.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Ok here's my ultra low fi stem clone to agar to grain to poo grow plan.

It's ultra low-fi because I finding the right equipment and inputs exactly as all you helpful shroomery folk list them can be a pain in the ass where I am, which is Ecuador. Importing stuff is also a huge pain in the ass and quite expensive (Amazon quoted me $70 shipping on a $10 set of pre-poured agar plates, for example).  I'm sure universities and businesses and so forth have a way of finding everything but as far as normal retail I've only found one shop which retails lab supplies and their stock has been quite limited. They had to order in the Agar for me, for example. I go to hardware stores and ask for tyvek and just get blank stares. A large part of it is probably the language barrier.  Any how hunting down the exact items has been difficult, which is a shame because I wanted to just follow someone else's tek exactly for my first grow.

I've had to improvise. Twice that's ended in failure. Before I failed a third time I thought I should write up a proper grow plan, put it up on the shroomery, see whether people think it's doable, or if there are any improvements i should make.

Ecuador as well has its advantages, as it's home to the Cubensis Ecuatoriana, which I know is a popular strand for people to cultivate all around the world because they're aggressive and consistently pack a pretty decent punch. It's the first kind I tried, back home in Australia. I've had some wild ones here since arriving too, and they're pretty awesome.  Problem is the rising popularity of the spots I know, and the increasing amount the locals are realising they can charge for these things from tourists. So I want to start growing some at home.

I'm determined to take a new strain from the wild, which I know has its difficulties, but I just like the idea so much better than fucking round with customs and ordering spores online and so forth. As I said before importing stuff here is a bitch.

So here's my plan:

STEP 1 - Prep Agar Petris.

a - Cut into quarters, then boil, 1 big potato or 2 smaller ones in 500 mils of water (for 30 minutes?)

b - Remove potato(s), strain chunks out of remaining potato water.

c - Add 6-8 grams of Agar Agar, (two teaspoons)

d- Add 3-4 grams of brown sugar (that's what I have at the house), or one teaspoon.

e- Use a syringe to fill 10 + glass petri dishes with this still hot mixture.

d - Wrap these petri dishes in foil and put them in a pressure cooker for 1hr.

e - Allow to partially cool (to the point where they won't melt the plastic in my fridge) and then transfer to the fridge to store.

STEP 2 - Go Get Some Shrooms.

a - Get in car.

b - Drive to spot.

c - Obtain shrooms.

d - Go home without eating them all (hardest step).


STEP 3 - Cloning

a - Place favourite mushroom(s), scalpel, lighter, alcohol and the petri dishes from STEP 1  inside a still air box.

b - Remove foil covering petri dishes, scrunch it into a little ball and remove it from the SAB. (or put it in the corner?)

c - Spray everything, including own (gloved) hands with lots of iso alcohol spray (the stuff I can find is 70%)

d - Tear a long thin section out of the stem. Cut the outer "skin" layer off this section. cut that into smaller pieces, at least as many as you have prepped petri dishes.

e - Place one of these pieces at the centre of each petri dish, being sure to have them open for the shortest time possible. 

f - Place these petri dishes in a warm place where they won't be disturbed or exposed to direct sunlight and wait for growth.

g - Identify (with help of shroomery forums) best petri dishes and empty the rest. Repeat STEP 1 for emptied PDs.

h - Place scalpel, lighter, alcohol and the petri dishes in a still air box.

i - Cut the best segments from your favourite from-flesh petri dishes and  place them in the centre of the newly poured petri dishes.

j - Allow to grow.

-----Repeat actions g, h, i and j  until the shroomery forums agree you have at least 4 healthy monocultures (4 versions of the same monoculture?) growing in 4 petri dishes.

STEP 4 - Jar Prep (should be started at about the time of action f in STEP 3)

a - Boil 2 kilos of corn with plenty of water in pressure cooker for 45 minutes.

b - While the corn is cooked cut holes in the lids of a bunch of jars (twice the number of healthy petri dishes).

c  - Cover the holes with micro-pod tape.

d - When cooking is done, wait for pressure cooker to cool, then strain any remaining water.

e - Place cooked corn in jars, about 3/4 full.

f - Place coffee filters over the tops of the jars, then screw the lids down, catching the coffee filters in the thread, between the lid and the jar.

g - Place the jars in the pressure cooker (as many as will comfortably fit) along with some water and boil for 45 minutes.

h - Allow pressure cooker and jars to cool before transferring jars to the fridge for storage until STEP 3 is complete.


STEP 5 - Colonising Jars

a - Place jars, petri dishes, alcohol, a scalpel, and a lighter inside a still air box

b - Cut the growth on each petri dishes into 10 pieces, opening each dish for the shortest time possible.

c - Place five pieces in each jar, which should also be opened for the shortest time possible.

d - Outside the still air box, shake the jars gently and store them in a warm place, shaking gently each day until fully colonised by lovely white mycelium.

STEP 6 - Poo Prep. (begin during STEP 5- while jars incubate)

a- Collect dried out cow poo, the older the better.

b- Put poo in an old pillow case

c - Place in a pot along with water and heat to just below the point of boiling. Maintain this for 45 minutes.

d - Allow to cool and then remove pillow case from water, twist the pillow case to squeeze out excess water.

e - Store in plastic bags.

STEP 6 Casing.

a - Get a bunch of aluminium baking trays about as big as for a chicken, line the bottom of them with poo about a centimetre and a half thick.

b - Break up the colonised jars into smaller chunks (except one or two to be saved for grain to grain transfers) sprinkling two jars worth on each tray.

c - cover the colonised corn with another layer of poo about a centimetre and a half deep.

d Spray the surface with water (with a mister) and then cover with food wrap.

Repeat step D daily until it's time to harvest all the amazing shrooms.


:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:

What do people think? Am I doomed to a third failure? If so why?


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Review my grow.plan. Help me not fail. [Re: FromTheWild]
    #21695999 - 05/18/15 08:45 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Hey man you might have an easier time just pouring your plates, and using instant potatoes over boiling your own.

I mix 10g agar, 10g instant mashed potato flake, 500ml water and a drop of karo syrup in a liquor bottle... I PC for 45 min.

As for your choice of grain, corn isnt the best IMO. Id sugguest rye berries, or wild bird seed.

Coffee filters will make poor lids for grain jars. You have many better options, including simply drilling a hole in mason jar lid and stuffing with very tight wad of polyfill, or placing a double layer of craft felt over the hole between the band and lid of mason jar, or the same using tyvek.
All better options than micro pore tape or coffee filters.


I also think you are confused as to casing. You certainly would never case with poo. A casing layer is non nutrient, like peat and verm, coir/verm etc

HPoo is a bulk substrate. You would mix your spawn (colonized grain) with your bulk sub (poo) in your tray evenly.. and let colonize.
At this point you could fruit the trays or you could add a casing layer at this point if you choose.

If you are using trays you will need to place them in a fruiting chamber, such as a shotgun fruiting terarium, after they are fully colonized. You will need to mist and fan.

Hope this helps! You have a lot of the right ideas but you need to do quite a bit more reading before you start!


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OfflineFromTheWild
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Re: Review my grow.plan. Help me not fail. [Re: mushpunx]
    #21697916 - 05/19/15 10:37 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Hey Mushpunx,

Thanks for taking an interest. I have a  few quick follow-up questions and clarifications if that's ok.

I think you may have raced over my into paragraph in which I discuss some of the problems I have getting certain items here (like Tyvek)

1) by pouring you mean in the SAB right? so I just sterilise the plates with alcohol first or what? do I leave the bottle open or closed. Remember I have no Tyvek.

2) I think I can get instant mashed potatoes, in powder form. Not sure if that's the same as or as good as flakes. Karo syrup I imagine will be harder. I've read on other threads that people just use table sugar.

3) I've not been able to find whole rye berries here. I can find wild birdseed but as it's imported it's fucking stupidly priced; like $4 for a bag that fills just over two jars. Corn on the other hand, is a national staple, and I can get a sack of like 30 kg for the same price.

4) yes I'm confused as to casing slightly. In some places people seem to use the term "casing" to refer to the whole process of taking it from jars and then incubating a whole tray rather than immediately fruiting. Other places people refer to a "casing layer" which is the bit that goes above the substrate in the tray to create micro-pockets of moist air. I'm confused also by when you say "you could fruit the trays or you could add a casing layer at this point if you choose." as I thought the casing layer was meant to cause fruiting.

5) Is a fruiting chamber really unavoidable? I've got some perlite to hold moisture and can easily enough get more tupperware. But I was basically planning on following bluelou's FOOD RAP TEK in that regard. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4407328#4407328. I also have the advantage of being in the mushrooms native climate, where there are pretty frequent periods of long high humidity. In any case misting is no problem but I don't know exactly what you mean by fanning.


Please pardon my ignorance on all these points.


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Review my grow.plan. Help me not fail. [Re: FromTheWild]
    #21698158 - 05/19/15 12:00 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

What country do you live in?

1. Alcohol will certainly not sterilize, only sanitize. Anything sterile that is then touched with alchohol then becomes un sterile.

You will have to sterilize the glass pitres in a pressure cooker cycle, and then yes pour in your SAB.

2..I think the potatoe powder would be fine if its instant mashed potatoes..the way you described will work its just a lot of work and harder to adjust the recipe.
Honey will work fine in place of karo syrup!

3. Popcorn will work, its just not ideal in my opinion

4. A casing refers to a casing layer. A non nutrient layer on top of a colonized substrate.

Casing is optional, you can do it if you like or not. What you are doing to make the trays is spawning to a bulk substrate. You mix the colonized popcorn evenly with your Hpoo. Once this is fully colonized you have the option to put it into fruiting as is, or you can add the optional casing layer.


5. Yes, if you are making trays a fruiting chamber is mandatory. That "food rap tek" you are looking at is ten years old and useless.

  A clear plastic tub, with 1/4 inch holes drilled in a 2" x 2" grid pattern on ALL 6 sides, 5" of moistened perlite inside, raised up off the surface at the corners.

You need to mist your trays and then fan them with the tub lid, 3-5 times a day.


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OfflineFromTheWild
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Re: Review my grow.plan. Help me not fail. [Re: mushpunx]
    #21733340 - 05/28/15 04:58 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Hey Mushpunx,

I'm sorry for not responding earlier. I thought I had. I do appreciate you taking an interest.

Any how I've gone ahead and filled the petri dishes inside the SAB like you said. I ended up using brown sugar and real potatoes, along with "agar agar" as the medium for them.

Tomorrow I should be able to grab some fresh wild specimens and start stem cloning/taking spore prints.

Can i store the agar overnight at room temperature?  How long should I expect them to stay "good" outside the fridge? Or is that soley a question of how well I've sterilized them?

In any case I prepped a shit load of agar plates, like 30. The first 15 of these were glass done inside the SAB (I think there was still some ISO alcohol liquid inside some of the petri dishes when I poured the Agar... I hope that isn't fatal. ) Another 15 were done outside the SAB but in a small sterilized room (where the SAB was also located). I couldn't fit them inside the box before I started.

Am already considering getting a HEPA filter (though I imagine that would be a hassle) as working in the SAB is harder than it looks. Obviouslt this isn't ideal but I figured they were "extras" any how.


Anyhow wish me luck with tomorrow's hunt.


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Review my grow.plan. Help me not fail. [Re: FromTheWild]
    #21733775 - 05/28/15 06:54 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Yes when you store the plates, I either store like stacks of 4 in brand new ziplock bag (theyre sterile) or I wrap the edge with either parafilm or plastic cling wrap.. I cut an inch and a half off the end of a roll for easy little roll to wrap with.

Dont store the blank plates in the fridge because you might not see any contams appear if you didnt pour clean enough.

As far as pouring outside the still air box? Yea dont do that again!

"The first 15 of these were glass done inside the SAB (I think there was still some ISO alcohol liquid inside some of the petri dishes when I poured the Agar... I hope that isn't fatal. )"

This statement worries me though.. did you wipe out the plates with ISO before you poured them or something?

Like I said ISO will not sterilize anything, and anything sterile that it touches become un sterile. To sterilize glass plates they need to be run through a PC cycle, I only use pre sterile plastic ones so Im not sure how it works but I imagine lid stays on each plate and you would move the whole stack to the still air box.

If you did wipe any plates out with ISO before pouring thrn dont use them


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OfflineFromTheWild
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Re: Review my grow.plan. Help me not fail. [Re: mushpunx]
    #21733820 - 05/28/15 07:07 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Aaah fuck i got confused.

I rememebered you saying not to put the plates in the PC once poured, but fucked up and forgot the sanitize/sterilize distinction. Yes I did exactly what you said not to do.

Looking back now I'm not sure how I got that wrong.

Surely ISO can't contain contams though since it's what people use to steril... sanitize the inside of the SAB in so many workflows I've seen online.


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OfflineFromTheWild
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Re: Review my grow.plan. Help me not fail. [Re: FromTheWild]
    #21733837 - 05/28/15 07:12 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

To be clear - I cooked my agar solution in  a pc for 45 minutes, alongside the few petri dishes I could fit inside there at the same time.

I also boiled some petri dishes in a normal pot of water at the same time for the same duration.

Then I dried them with a micro-fibre cloth, which i sprayed with ISO as to sterilize it, and moved them all into the workspace - then sprayed a shitload of ISO everywhere in the room, including above the PDs. Then I moved everything inside the SAB and sprayed more ISO alcohol around.

Again all this follows what I've seen in numerous workflows online. Perhaps I forgot your advice in part because it contradicts those.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Review my grow.plan. Help me not fail. [Re: FromTheWild]
    #21733895 - 05/28/15 07:28 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

yes iso can have contaminants in it, it only sanitizes not sterilize. if you sterilize something and then put alcohol on it you're doing the same thing as taking a shower then putting your hand in a toilet.


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Review my grow.plan. Help me not fail. [Re: FromTheWild]
    #21733904 - 05/28/15 07:31 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Yea next time you have an extra blank agar plate laying around and put a drop of ISO on it, youll be shocked at all the nasties that grow! :lol: It most definitly contains contams1

Once anything is sterile dont touch it with anything, and no ISO.

Many people wipe down the inside of SAB with ISO but really you cant sterilize it, it works on the principles of keeping the air as still as possible so airborn contams dont settle into your open work.
After wiping with ISO if ou do that you give a quick mist on the walls with soapy water anyways, it helps trap contams.

By keeping the air still, and using careful hand motions (like not moving a hand or slip of finger over top an open jar/plate) is why a still air box works, not because it is a sterile area.

Even a laminar flow hood, it blows sterile air but is not a sterile work space... it blows the sterile air in a special (laminar) flow tokind of trap airborn contam particles in an outwards flow of air instead of settling into your open, sterile work.

Plastic pitres come in a sleeve pre sterile, you open the stack inside the still air box before you go to pour.
Im not sure how to use glass pitres but like I said they would need to be run through a PC cycle, and definitly not opened before you pour them

Have you watched letsgrowmushrooms videos by RR? He has a great segment on agar and pouring plates, great visual!


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Re: Review my grow.plan. Help me not fail. [Re: mushpunx]
    #21733912 - 05/28/15 07:33 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

if you have glass petri dishes you put them in an autoclave bag or wrap them in foil sterilize them and then open them in your workspace and pour agar into them using sterile technique of course.

iso alcohol is good for wiping jar lids and your gloves if you even use gloves but nothing to go overboard with it's not going to help you.


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OfflineFromTheWild
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Re: Review my grow.plan. Help me not fail. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21737353 - 05/29/15 03:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

So the consensus is don't try using these plates? Just start over?


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Review my grow.plan. Help me not fail. [Re: FromTheWild]
    #21737403 - 05/29/15 03:54 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

do you have glass plates or plastic ones?

if they're plastic they come in a sleeve and are sterile in the package.

you pour sterilized agar in sterile dishes. you don't pour the agar in the dish then sterilize. if you want to fuck around doing that make pasty plates.


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OfflineFromTheWild
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Re: Review my grow.plan. Help me not fail. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21737654 - 05/29/15 05:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I have glass ones and plastic ones. Unfortunately I couldn't fit the plastic ones inside the SAB before starting so I poured them outside (but in a cleaned and draft-proofed room). However the plastic sleeve had been opened in the store.

I got the "you pour sterilized agar in sterile dishes" principle from punx earlier posts, but failed in the execution. What are pasty plates?


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Invisiblemush madness
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Re: Review my grow.plan. Help me not fail. [Re: FromTheWild]
    #21737665 - 05/29/15 05:07 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)



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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Review my grow.plan. Help me not fail. [Re: FromTheWild]
    #21738106 - 05/29/15 07:02 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

FromTheWild said:
I have glass ones and plastic ones. Unfortunately I couldn't fit the plastic ones inside the SAB before starting so I poured them outside (but in a cleaned and draft-proofed room). However the plastic sleeve had been opened in the store.

I got the "you pour sterilized agar in sterile dishes" principle from punx earlier posts, but failed in the execution. What are pasty plates?





Yea if the sleeve was opened in the store those are trashed. And since you wiped the glass ones with ISO before you poured so dont use those either. Throw the plastic ones out since they cannot be sterilized in PC.

Take your glass plates, put lid on and wrap them each up in foil. Run them through a PC cycle to sterilize. Open them up in your still air box and pour.


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OfflineFromTheWild
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Re: Review my grow.plan. Help me not fail. [Re: mushpunx]
    #21740855 - 05/30/15 12:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Could the fact I'm not seeing any contams now two days later mean I got stupid lucky?


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OfflineFromTheWild
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Re: Review my grow.plan. Help me not fail. [Re: FromTheWild]
    #21744206 - 05/31/15 09:06 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

OK ditched them all. The contams showed up like crazy over night.


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OfflineFromTheWild
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Re: Review my grow.plan. Help me not fail. [Re: FromTheWild]
    #22402033 - 10/19/15 09:51 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The Rains have come. Going to try again soon. Wish me luck and thanks for all your help.


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