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graha585
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Registered: 05/18/15
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Epsom Salt as an alternative to Gyspum
#21693318 - 05/18/15 02:49 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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My understanding is that gypsum is used as a ph buffer, preventing the substrate from becoming too acidic as mushrooms grow.
Agriculturally, I know Epsom salt and gypsum both have a similar effect on soil, raising the kH - this means they are both a buffer keeping soil from becoming overly acidic. And generally, the two substances are used for very similar purposes.
I'm curious if Epsom salts (MgSO4) could be used as instead of gypsum (CaSO4) - I've seen a few posts demonizing magnesium for one reason or another, but is it really that different?
And why is gypsum so much better that is worth the additional effort to find?
-------------------- Any posts I make about mushroom cultivation are for educational purposes only. I do not intend on illegally growing mushrooms. All of my posts are purely hypothetical.
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Sockadin



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Re: Epsom Salt as an alternative to Gyspum [Re: graha585]
#21693389 - 05/18/15 03:56 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Calcium Carbonate has a higher Buffering Capacity.
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mushpunx
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Re: Epsom Salt as an alternative to Gyspum [Re: Sockadin]
#21693437 - 05/18/15 05:06 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Gypsum is really cheap and easy to find, if you are having trouble go buy a 5$ board of sheet rock (drywall) and crush it up, bam gypsum!
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 Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
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PirateSwazey


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Re: Epsom Salt as an alternative to Gyspum [Re: mushpunx]
#21693687 - 05/18/15 08:24 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I haven't used gypsum in about a year & have noticed absolutely no difference anyways!
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graha585
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Registered: 05/18/15
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Re: Epsom Salt as an alternative to Gyspum [Re: Sockadin]
#21694174 - 05/18/15 11:28 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Do we know if epsom is okie dokie otherwise?
I fantasize about making a "grocery store tek," both for the sake of convenience and because I simply don't have space to have things like large amounts of drywall laying around my house--other than than walls, of course.
-------------------- Any posts I make about mushroom cultivation are for educational purposes only. I do not intend on illegally growing mushrooms. All of my posts are purely hypothetical.
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FreeWorldOrder


Registered: 12/24/13
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Re: Epsom Salt as an alternative to Gyspum [Re: graha585]
#21694449 - 05/18/15 12:51 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Personally, if I didn't have some bagged gypsum or a piece of drywall I would just skip it. Have grown many times without using it and still had good results.
I do like adding it to grains... it helps keeping them from clumping/sticking together....
-------------------- "They who can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin Lets Grow Mushrooms Videos PastyWhyte's Easy Agar TEK Agar's Liquid Inoculant TEK
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Green Bastard
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Re: Epsom Salt as an alternative to Gyspum [Re: FreeWorldOrder]
#21694700 - 05/18/15 02:11 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's my understanding that magnesium has a detrimental effect on the growth of cubensis. Hence the warnings not to use dolomitic lime.
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graha585
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Registered: 05/18/15
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Re: Epsom Salt as an alternative to Gyspum [Re: Green Bastard]
#21696970 - 05/19/15 01:44 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Green Bastard said: It's my understanding that magnesium has a detrimental effect on the growth of cubensis. Hence the warnings not to use dolomitic lime.
So I've heard, but I've never been given a convincing "why," or even seen a demonstration of poor results.
-------------------- Any posts I make about mushroom cultivation are for educational purposes only. I do not intend on illegally growing mushrooms. All of my posts are purely hypothetical.
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Salomon
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Registered: 01/17/09
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Re: Epsom Salt as an alternative to Gyspum [Re: graha585]
#21697054 - 05/19/15 03:14 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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well why don't you set up a grow using epsom and report back to us?
-------------------- EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY BECOMES A DESERT
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graha585
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Re: Epsom Salt as an alternative to Gyspum [Re: Salomon]
#21700560 - 05/19/15 11:23 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's my plan now. This thread will probably die, but I'll revive it when I can do a side-by-side.
-------------------- Any posts I make about mushroom cultivation are for educational purposes only. I do not intend on illegally growing mushrooms. All of my posts are purely hypothetical.
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Green Bastard
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Re: Epsom Salt as an alternative to Gyspum [Re: graha585]
#21700853 - 05/20/15 01:14 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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You've undoubtedly seen many quotes, from Roger Rabbit, referring to the above 4% toxicity, when answering questions concerning dolomite lime vs hydrated lime, eh? I just wish there was some better explanation of the reason. Still not gonna be adding any Mg to my bulk subs. But, good luck with the experiment. I'll be watching, for curiosity.
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
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Re: Epsom Salt as an alternative to Gyspum [Re: Green Bastard]
#21703437 - 05/20/15 06:25 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Dolomitic Lime is the opposite of hydrated lime. Both are going to lower your PH, but dolomitic lime will suck the moisture out of your substrate and into the domolite crystals. It is anhydrous by it's nature.
But back to the point of Why would you want to put salt into any substrate? Salinity will change the chemistry of your substrate. In extreme circumstances it will actually remove the ability for you mycelium to retain moisture. The higher the KH of your substrate the more PH swings it can handle.
KH refers to Carbonated Hardness. This term will refer to the amount of buffer in your system. Because mushrooms like a really low PH somewhere around 6, you don't want to add anything to the mixture that might raise that PH. If you look at water in a house, the normal water out of the tap will be at about 7.0-7.9- PH in a normal municipality. If you look at the PH of a home using a water softener you might see the PH closer to 8.0-8.5. This is because a water softerner uses salts and other minerals to increase the KH of the water. These minerals act as a sponge and soak up any available acids that might bring the PH down.
If you add Epsom salt to your substrate effectively you are creating a carbonated buffer that will soak up any of the hydrated lime but keep the substrate from dropping to the optimal PH for mycelium growth.
Also the higher the PH = the more chance for bacteria to thrive because they prefer a higher PH than 7.0
I hope that made sense.
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graha585
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Registered: 05/18/15
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Re: Epsom Salt as an alternative to Gyspum [Re: Sockadin]
#21753588 - 06/02/15 04:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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This is a more concise summary of information than I've probably read anywhere else; hopefully I still do the experiment (for the sake of science).
-------------------- Any posts I make about mushroom cultivation are for educational purposes only. I do not intend on illegally growing mushrooms. All of my posts are purely hypothetical.
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