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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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Ascension
#21689936 - 05/17/15 09:57 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I thought it would be nice to start a thread on Ascension in general. This is to a lot of people sort of a sci-fi concept; to me, it's probably the one idea from sci-fi that is most intriguing, as a possibility. From my understanding, it is slightly different from other forms of enlightenment or Nirvana because you are actually ascending to another plane of existence. . .
Nirvana is of course said to be absolute and complete - and indeed, far before one reaches Nirvana, there are many states of non-regression, that is, there are many, many levels of existence between here and there from which one, once reached, never falls back to a lower state of existence.
'Every step I make in the Light,' as Vivekananda said, 'is mine forever.'
or, 'as soon as one attains a higher vision, the lower vision disappears of itself.'
Etc., or eternal gain, things like this. . in Christ's teachings, it's said that there are certain pure, self-less deeds motivated by love which give us an eternal gain in heaven. .
this same concept of eternal gain, or reaching a place from which one never falls, and variations on the them are seen in every wisdom lineage I have come across.
And yet - glimpses of Nirvana come by, long before any of these states of freedom - from which one never falls again into bondage - occur. For instance, glimpses of the 'all-in-one' seeing that every face merges into ocean of being and love, and they are all seen as divine - similar to Siddhartha's experience on the river, in Herman Hesse's novel of the same name.
So those are fascinating, and help us along the way. .
Yet Ascension is a little different from at least these, because presumably if you enter another plane of existence, another level of reality - like, truly transform - then it'd be with a certain finality. . . or for instance, if someone Ascended, in the Stargate version, they no longer have a corporeal existence.
[edited to take out the last para]
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
Edited by once in a lifetime (05/17/15 01:05 PM)
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c0sm0nautt

Registered: 05/19/08
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Loc: The Astral Realm
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The idea of Ascension just seems silly to me. Is the idea to live in a world without duality? What would that even look like? What lessons could be learned in such a place?
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deff
just love everyone



Registered: 05/01/04
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i think of ascension as what occurs after all physical reality learning is complete and one ascends into a higher octave of experience after death (as opposed to being reborn). ascended masters are ones who have completed this and still help with humanity from this higher vantage point it's my understanding that ascended masters are still learning and evolving on a more cosmic level - and that the evolution never ends
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Khancious
da Crow



Registered: 12/05/12
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Loc: Behind Everything
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said: The idea of Ascension just seems silly to me. Is the idea to live in a world without duality? What would that even look like? What lessons could be learned in such a place?
Everything IS everything, and I am.
-------------------- I am that, which is.
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
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What if you got the choice to Ascend or remain and keep being reincarnated, like the episode from SGA (excuse the sci-fi reference, that's the first place my mind goes when I think of it..came to the series in my early twenties, late like most pop-culture shows). . he was accidentally trapped in a time bubble, where hours passed for each minute outside of it, the whole thing created to be a sanctuary for those wishing to ascend. . toward the end of the episode, he helped the villagers overcome their last obstacle, and they all ascended; right before the last did, they offered him to come with them but he chose to stay (an obvious choice).
So that's sci-fi; there are also related apsects in religion. . years later I came across something similar in Pure Land Buddhism, one of Amitabha's vows is that a devotee chanting his name at the time of death, with a pure heart, will be greeted by him and a retinue, and personally delivered to the Pure Lands. This was interesting and I connected it in my mind, sort of, with Ascension. Then in Hinduism there are similar stories and instances, and some saints are said to have the ability to travel anywhere in the universe.
The Stargate reference had them staying localized in one galaxy. And, though beings of pure energy, not omnipotent, though knowing a great deal.
So, deff, in your view, is it basically analogous to enlightened beings?
and I just noticed the pronunciation of your name, Khancious.
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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deff
just love everyone



Registered: 05/01/04
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yes in my view ascension is analogous to enlightenment insofar as enlightenment is often defined in terms of putting an end to rebirth 
there's also another definition of ascension i like, which is more relative which is "Ascension is the raising of our vibration and thereby our consciousness." (from this site: www.alphaimaging.co.nz - a site where I get a lot of healings and products made by the ascended masters ) - this definition would mean any raising of our consciousness is a form of ascension, which makes sense i think. then, at death, if we've surpassed a certain threshold, we don't have to reincarnate and will be permanently in a higher octave of experience
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: Ascension [Re: deff]
#21692270 - 05/17/15 08:43 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Deff, you seem to know quite a bit. 
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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glimpee
Awakening



Registered: 12/08/14
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We can only perceive within a certain spectrum. There are many things around us we cannot perceive. We are also 3rd dimensionally bound. We do not and cannot know what lies in 2nd or 4th dimensional. Especially not the 10th dimension, all possible universes with all possible beginnings and ends.
We can also dream universes. We can convince ourselves that our dreams are reality. We can convince ourselves of reality. There are ways to alter times. DMT is akin to dreaming - and near death experiences are related to DMT. There is the possibility that dreaming is a more controlled form of death.
With all that information - I believe the idea is possible, however, the nature of ascension is still in question.
My personal theory is that every reality is a dream - but the universal consciousness can split itself into individual beings within each dream, with each dream perhaps splitting the consciousness of each individual (separating the consciousness more and more?)
Its possible that when we die we perceive timelessness - the fourth dimension. In that dimension, we create a universe, a dream, in which we reside, for eternity. When we die there, we go further.
At least, that's a theory, and a lot like the movie Inception, but I think it's a possibility
Especially since people have experienced eternities while taking DMT.
I think ascending is probably the opposite of dying - you wake up a level - realize reality. If this is true - peoples ambitions for heaven are all fucked up (and if this is true, heaven is possible [what you believe will happen to you when you die becomes the universe you create])
I am also following the possibility of this rule - and attempting to master each stage of dreaming, to master my perceptions and link to the reality of the dream. If any of this is true - then it may be possible to go "lucid" in your universe and become "god." Maybe it's even possible to create further consciousness.
Perhaps thats an alternative to waking up - existing in your own universe, creating life to keep yourself occupied and not lonely haha
-------------------- Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.
Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069
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glimpee
Awakening



Registered: 12/08/14
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Re: Ascension [Re: deff] 1
#21693230 - 05/18/15 01:33 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said: yes in my view ascension is analogous to enlightenment insofar as enlightenment is often defined in terms of putting an end to rebirth 
there's also another definition of ascension i like, which is more relative which is "Ascension is the raising of our vibration and thereby our consciousness." (from this site: www.alphaimaging.co.nz - a site where I get a lot of healings and products made by the ascended masters ) - this definition would mean any raising of our consciousness is a form of ascension, which makes sense i think. then, at death, if we've surpassed a certain threshold, we don't have to reincarnate and will be permanently in a higher octave of experience 
I may just be wrong but I view ascension as the step after enlightenment - as in enlightenment is mastery of the self/non-self in this plane - ascending is mastery in the cosmic plane as well
-------------------- Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.
Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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Re: Ascension [Re: glimpee]
#21697713 - 05/19/15 09:55 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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These were very nice posts, glimpee. As to the point of others' ideas of heaven being messed up, I would be inclined to say go to the source; as usual, it's a good practice. A lot of wisdom traditions delineate the concept that heaven is in the here and now, that the infinite is present always, and we can enter it at any time. Emily D.'s poem a sudden guest is a nice picture of this as well.
Taoism is another one - in Taoism there's talk of refining the energy until it is completely divine, and then one can rise to heaven at will. A half-day after I posted this thread it occurred to me. 
I was going to look it up, I still will, but I think it's fairly close to this:
The infinite a sudden guest has been assumed to be but how can that Stupendous come Which never went away?
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
Edited by once in a lifetime (05/19/15 10:02 AM)
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glimpee
Awakening



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 734
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Quote:
once in a lifetime said: These were very nice posts, glimpee. As to the point of others' ideas of heaven being messed up, I would be inclined to say go to the source; as usual, it's a good practice. A lot of wisdom traditions delineate the concept that heaven is in the here and now, that the infinite is present always, and we can enter it at any time. Emily D.'s poem a sudden guest is a nice picture of this as well.
Taoism is another one - in Taoism there's talk of refining the energy until it is completely divine, and then one can rise to heaven at will. A half-day after I posted this thread it occurred to me. 
I was going to look it up, I still will, but I think it's fairly close to this:
The infinite a sudden guest has been assumed to be but how can that Stupendous come Which never went away?
we do not learn, we unlock, we work past repression
well we also learn
But what are your thoughts on ascension v death? the inception of reality? Dreams within dreams within dreams
-------------------- Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.
Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069
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glimpee
Awakening



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 734
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: Ascension [Re: glimpee]
#21698502 - 05/19/15 01:46 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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something else kinda off topic I knew Ive discussed some of my goals with you, including mixing dream states and reality
I just realized that my dreams are becoming more like reality. In the past week Ive had20+ dreams that took place in the "real world"
This is the opposite of what I wanted to do, I was trying to bring dreams into reality, not reality into dreams
Do you think this means something or is just a coincidence? Its starting to make me thing that reality is inverted to the way I thought it was
-------------------- Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.
Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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Re: Ascension [Re: glimpee]
#21700003 - 05/19/15 08:29 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
glimpee said:we do not learn, we unlock, we work past repression
well we also learn
But what are your thoughts on ascension v death? the inception of reality? Dreams within dreams within dreams
You reminded me of this quote:
'No knowledge comes from outside: it is all inside. What we say a man "knows," should, in strict psychological language, be what he "discovers" or "unveils"; what man "learns" is really what he discovers by taking the cover off his own soul, which is a mine of infinite knowledge.' -Vivekananda
I wrote a little much tonight already, hehe, um, but in short, death is waking up, all this is a dream within a dream; there are essentially unlimited levels of reality, unlimited levels of revelation, etc.
And the other you said, that sounds like you are touching upon pre-sight. Can say more later, but there's not much I know of this, although I do understand cause and effect and sometimes understand a decade or so in the future, sometimes I get a feeling of 400 years from now. The decade ones are very clear, the others are more aware of which actions create paradaisical futures, and which create withered futures, and choosing the former. Although the present alone really exists.
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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glimpee
Awakening



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 734
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Quote:
once in a lifetime said:
Quote:
glimpee said:we do not learn, we unlock, we work past repression
well we also learn
But what are your thoughts on ascension v death? the inception of reality? Dreams within dreams within dreams
You reminded me of this quote:
'No knowledge comes from outside: it is all inside. What we say a man "knows," should, in strict psychological language, be what he "discovers" or "unveils"; what man "learns" is really what he discovers by taking the cover off his own soul, which is a mine of infinite knowledge.' -Vivekananda
I wrote a little much tonight already, hehe, um, but in short, death is waking up, all this is a dream within a dream; there are essentially unlimited levels of reality, unlimited levels of revelation, etc.
And the other you said, that sounds like you are touching upon pre-sight. Can say more later, but there's not much I know of this, although I do understand cause and effect and sometimes understand a decade or so in the future, sometimes I get a feeling of 400 years from now. The decade ones are very clear, the others are more aware of which actions create paradaisical futures, and which create withered futures, and choosing the former. Although the present alone really exists.
Hmm I dont know if I am predicting, right now my dreams have been related to what I did that day or what was on my mind.
One interesting one, however, I was in my friends living room sitting with him and his dad, talking about stuff. I was smoking a cig. His parents are divorced and his dad is strict about smoking, his mom is chill. His dad also lives elsewhere
Anyways I go to spark another cig, and my friend and his "strict" dad err some caution. I'm like "it'll be ok we have a few hours before she gets back"
I light my 2nd cig, ash it and it breaks (that sucks) and then my friends mom walks in. Except somethings different. Instead of skinny and timid, she was muscle bound and PISSED.
The roles of his dad and mom reversed - perhaps this is a premonition, time will tell, but it was weird.
There was also a girl texting me that day who I thought might be hitting on me but I couldn't really tell
I was in bed, I looked at my phone and got a message from her. Something about how I was different than all the other guys, I was special, and she wouldn't let me get away. I was half sleeping so I was like "what... theres no way she said that... am I dreaming?" and I checked it like 5 more times and the same message was there
I dreamed it
- something that bugs me is I can see my hands in my dreams, I can read in my dreams, I can tell time, and I can look in mirrors. Those are all things that you shouldn't be able to do and that would help me go lucid.
But do we actually know if death is ascension or could it be further regression away from the greater consciousness? Doesn't dreaming split your consciousness into different ideas/figures/messages? Would that be inconsistent with the true pattern? If not, I'm led to believe (off pure rationality) that going into a dream upon death is the opposite of ascension. It might not be bad, it might actually be good for some people (myself partially included)
I'm not really sure if anyone could say for sure - and I think its possible that the most in tune shamans mispercieve the spiritual realms and rules
-------------------- Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.
Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069
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