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namkha
astral yoni


Registered: 01/07/14
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How Psychedelics You've Never Heard of Could Help Treat Mental Illness
#21686913 - 05/16/15 12:26 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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http://www.alternet.org/drugs/psychedelics-you-never-heard-could-help-treat-mental-illness ______________________________________________________________________________ How Psychedelics You've Never Heard of Could Help Treat Mental Illness Some West African plants with strange powers show promise for the treatment of schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.
Ibogaine isn't the only strange psychedelic drug with healing powers coming out of West Africa these days. Scientists at Northwestern University looking into treatments used by traditional healers in Nigeria have synthesized four new chemical compounds that could eventually lead to better treatments for people suffering psychiatric disorders.
The compounds are indole alkaloids found in various plants used by Nigerian healers to treat people suffering from conditions such as bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. Indole alkaloids, of which more than 4,000 have been identified, include tryptamine and serotonin, as well as ibogaine, psilocybin and psilocin (magic mushrooms) and the fast-acting psychedelic DMT.
The Northwestern researchers have completely synthesized two of the ones used by Nigerian healers—alstonine and serpentine—and found that they indeed have antipsychotic properties that could potentially improve the treatment of such disorders.
While current drugs used to treat schizophrenia work well at tamping down delusions and hallucinations, they don't work as well in reducing cognitive impairment. But the scientists said research on these new compounds using animal models suggests they could improve cognitive impairment.
"After billions of years of evolution, nature has given us a great starting point for generating new types of molecules that could end up being used as innovative drugs," said Karl Scheidt, lead author of the paper. "We've learned how to make these natural products in the lab and can now evaluate what are the most effective parts of these natural products for potential therapies."
Scheidt, a professor of chemistry at Northwestern University's Weinberg College of Arts and Sciences and professor of pharmacology at Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine, was approached by Dr. Herbert Meltzer, professor in psychiatry and behavioral sciences, pharmacology and physiology at Feinberg, about the possibility of collaborating on researching the plant drugs. He needed Scheidt's expertise in designing new methods for constructing complex natural products.
"The synthesis of these alkaloids, which we have now just achieved, was exceedingly difficult," said Meltzer, "Karl Scheidt's expertise in the synthesis of natural products was crucial to the success of this project and is the first step in getting a new drug ready for clinical trials."
In Nigeria, traditional healers boil down the plants containing the indole alkaloids and create an extract that they give to people suffering symptoms of mental illness. But, ensconced firmly in Western medical traditions, Meltzer said that wasn't good enough.
"Nature did not intend this plant to produce an antipsychotic drug on its own," he said.
And Scheidt is using his chemical skills to create separate but related natural products from the plants. With his breakthrough research, Scheidt has now created a model for making more of these compounds for future studies and, ultimately, clinical trials.
"We can make multi-gram quantities of any of the compounds we want," Scheidt said. "We built the assembly line and are now uniquely positioned to explore their potential." ______________________________________________________________________________
Not so sure alstonine and serpentine are technically considered psychedelics, but fascinating nonetheless
-------------------- "Everything that happens with LSD is attributed to the substance. Can you imagine a similar discussion about the knife? Is the knife dangerous or useful? A surgeon would say one thing, the chief of police would be talking about something else, a housewife would be talking about cutting salami and an artist would talk about carving wood." -Stanislav Grof "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." -Anaïs Nin
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: How Psychedelics You've Never Heard of Could Help Treat Mental Illness [Re: namkha]
#21686973 - 05/16/15 12:46 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's up in the air whether or not the anti-psychotics cause the impairments themselves(because there's so many of them to take!)
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CLIT
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Re: How Psychedelics You've Never Heard of Could Help Treat Mental Illness [Re: Konyap]
#21689341 - 05/17/15 04:17 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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does kanna fit in somewhere here?
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slowgrowloph
The Dude


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Re: How Psychedelics You've Never Heard of Could Help Treat Mental Illness [Re: CLIT] 1
#21689911 - 05/17/15 09:49 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Some Frustrating quotes from the article:
"After billions of years of evolution, nature has given us a great starting point for generating new types of molecules that could end up being used as innovative drugs," said Karl Scheidt, lead author of the paper. "We've learned how to make these natural products in the lab and can now evaluate what are the most effective parts of these natural products for potential therapies."
"Nature did not intend this plant to produce an antipsychotic drug on its own," he said.
"We can make multi-gram quantities of any of the compounds we want," Scheidt said. "We built the assembly line and are now uniquely positioned to explore their potential."
I think its important to examine every part of the medicine but the thought that nature didn't and cant produce an anti-psychotic drug on its own is outrageously ignorant. It is totally possible, and imo the only reason to take a natural plant and try to isolate all the individual components of it and alter them slightly is just a way to put a brand name on it and market it. They couldnt put iboga root in a bottle and own ibogain, but they could take a part of the plant and isolate it and brand it.
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“Maybe it meant something. Maybe not, in the long run, but no explanation, no mix of words or music or memories can touch that sense of knowing that you were there and alive in that corner of time and the world. Whatever it meant.” -Hunter S. Thompson “One of life's quiet excitements is to stand somewhat apart from yourself and watch yourself softly becoming the author of something beautiful even if it is only a floating ash.” -Norman Maclean
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HardTrippin
The Ambivalent



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Re: How Psychedelics You've Never Heard of Could Help Treat Mental Illness [Re: slowgrowloph]
#21690533 - 05/17/15 01:08 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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While I agree with you, the research is only going to be funded if there is profit to be made, and unfortunately that means isolating compounds for patenting and commercial sale.
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dwnlw2slw
METANOIA


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Re: How Psychedelics You've Never Heard of Could Help Treat Mental Illness [Re: HardTrippin]
#21693602 - 05/18/15 07:28 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah, that's yet another point where arrogant man pretends to know what nature "intended." That statement is kind of mad-scientist-y.
Or he may have misspoken...I mean if you're a chemist saying what nature did not intend, then you might mean to say that nature does not have this thing called intention.
Besides, the anti-psychotic applications of naturally occurring, un-tampered-with psychedelics have pretty much already been proven. So, whether nature intended it "on its own" or not, it happened.
-------------------- "Music is liquid architecture; architecture is frozen music." -Johann Wolfgang Goethe "Slow is the experience of all deep fountains: long have they to wait until they know what has fallen into their depths." -Nietzsche My avatar is called "Inner Sanctum" by Luke Brown.
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


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Re: How Psychedelics You've Never Heard of Could Help Treat Mental Illness [Re: dwnlw2slw]
#21693660 - 05/18/15 08:13 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Slowgrowloph, I think they were just making reference to the fact the 90% of every pharmaceutical out there has its base /n a natural plant compound, and rather than try to construct new molecules from scratch, that its best to start from a plant compound or neurotransmitter (dopeamine is 3,4,-dihydroxy-phenethylamine, so add methyl groups to 3 and 4 and a methoxy to 5 and you have mescaline, 3,4,5-trimethoxy-phenethylamine, same with serotonin, 5-hydroxytryptamine, move the hydroxy from 5 to 4 and add two methyls to the amine nitrogen, and you have 4-hydroxy-dimethyltryptamine, psilocin)
But I understand what you mean, why couldn't nature produce perfect compounds? Which I feel it did, but does that mean that we shouldn't work with what nature gave us?
...you are right though, iboga, psilocin, DMT, mescaline, these are all public domain, and can not be patented, so of coarse they try to tell you "nature did it slightly wrong, but our chemist did it right" because the invented compounds can be patented and marketed...
In other articles When I hear that they want to.remove the psychedelic features of ibogaine (its 5HTreceptor agonism) but leave its anti-addictive agents (which are actually mu, kappa, and delta opioid receptor agonists, as well as NMDA glutamate receptor agonist) it sounds like they are taking a psychedelic and transforming it into an opioid....bad idea in my mind....the psychedelic experiance is WHY iboga works, and they are going to destroy it.
-E. Borodin
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olson
Stranger

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Re: How Psychedelics You've Never Heard of Could Help Treat Mental Illness [Re: slowgrowloph]
#21693698 - 05/18/15 08:32 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
slowgrowloph said: Some Frustrating quotes from the article:
"After billions of years of evolution, nature has given us a great starting point for generating new types of molecules that could end up being used as innovative drugs," said Karl Scheidt, lead author of the paper. "We've learned how to make these natural products in the lab and can now evaluate what are the most effective parts of these natural products for potential therapies."
"Nature did not intend this plant to produce an antipsychotic drug on its own," he said.
"We can make multi-gram quantities of any of the compounds we want," Scheidt said. "We built the assembly line and are now uniquely positioned to explore their potential."
I think its important to examine every part of the medicine but the thought that nature didn't and cant produce an anti-psychotic drug on its own is outrageously ignorant. It is totally possible, and imo the only reason to take a natural plant and try to isolate all the individual components of it and alter them slightly is just a way to put a brand name on it and market it. They couldnt put iboga root in a bottle and own ibogain, but they could take a part of the plant and isolate it and brand it.
I don't see anything wrong there. Its a very common practice in drug making that they find a 'lead compound' which has the activity they want but might have a half life of only 3 hours or might be slightly toxic to the liver or any number of things. This is done whether its a natural chemical or synthetic. For them to market extracts they'd have to know everything about all the chemicals contained in it. That would be like researching 20 different drugs at once. It doesn't make sense economically.
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Kinesin, a motor protein, shuttling a vesicle full of cargo such as glucose or even neurotransmitters across a cell. This little guy struts along the microtubule using ATP as fuel.
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
...you are right though, iboga, psilocin, DMT, mescaline, these are all public domain, and can not be patented, so of coarse they try to tell you "nature did it slightly wrong, but our chemist did it right" because the invented compounds can be patented and marketed...
Yes they can. Patents often run out before a compounds is marketed, which is why developers can get "exclusivity." Exclusivity can be more valuable than the patent.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



Registered: 02/15/12
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Re: How Psychedelics You've Never Heard of Could Help Treat Mental Illness [Re: badchad]
#21695543 - 05/18/15 06:52 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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they never mentioned what the plants were? hell, they only mentioned 2 of the compounds names.
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
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Re: How Psychedelics You've Never Heard of Could Help Treat Mental Illness [Re: Psilosopherr]
#21697548 - 05/19/15 08:31 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
rbalzer said: they never mentioned what the plants were? hell, they only mentioned 2 of the compounds names.
I believe the two compounds were chemical variations of ibogaine, in which case the plant would be tabernanthe iboga
-E. Borodin
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,278
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
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Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:
rbalzer said: they never mentioned what the plants were? hell, they only mentioned 2 of the compounds names.
I believe the two compounds were chemical variations of ibogaine, in which case the plant would be tabernanthe iboga
-E. Borodin
ahh, very interesting
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dwnlw2slw
METANOIA


Registered: 12/20/13
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Re: How Psychedelics You've Never Heard of Could Help Treat Mental Illness [Re: badchad]
#21704028 - 05/20/15 08:23 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
badchad said:
Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
...you are right though, iboga, psilocin, DMT, mescaline, these are all public domain, and can not be patented, so of coarse they try to tell you "nature did it slightly wrong, but our chemist did it right" because the invented compounds can be patented and marketed...
Yes they can. Patents often run out before a compounds is marketed, which is why developers can get "exclusivity." Exclusivity can be more valuable than the patent.
Sure, in horticulture they can get exclusivity under the Plant Variety Protection Act, which can last up to 25 years, but they can't patent those public domain plants that produce those compounds.
As a rule of thumb, cultivars, short for "cultivated varieties," can be patented, but not varieties, which are naturally occurring plants.
Besides, I know nothing about it, but I suspect zero psychedelic compounds have been either patented or "excluded."
-------------------- "Music is liquid architecture; architecture is frozen music." -Johann Wolfgang Goethe "Slow is the experience of all deep fountains: long have they to wait until they know what has fallen into their depths." -Nietzsche My avatar is called "Inner Sanctum" by Luke Brown.
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
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Re: How Psychedelics You've Never Heard of Could Help Treat Mental Illness [Re: dwnlw2slw]
#21713248 - 05/23/15 07:08 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
dwnlw2slw said:
Quote:
badchad said:
Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
...you are right though, iboga, psilocin, DMT, mescaline, these are all public domain, and can not be patented, so of coarse they try to tell you "nature did it slightly wrong, but our chemist did it right" because the invented compounds can be patented and marketed...
Yes they can. Patents often run out before a compounds is marketed, which is why developers can get "exclusivity." Exclusivity can be more valuable than the patent.
Sure, in horticulture they can get exclusivity under the Plant Variety Protection Act, which can last up to 25 years, but they can't patent those public domain plants that produce those compounds.
As a rule of thumb, cultivars, short for "cultivated varieties," can be patented, but not varieties, which are naturally occurring plants.
Besides, I know nothing about it, but I suspect zero psychedelic compounds have been either patented or "excluded."
LSD had a patent, but again it was a semi-synthetic....
-E. Borodin
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