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Late2theparty
Rookie



Registered: 07/20/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Australia
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PF Tek - dispute of need for a glove/still air box
#21685967 - 05/16/15 05:50 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Okay I've done a whole lot of reading, and there are a few things on this point I'd like to have cleared up. When I first began, I assumed the layer of tinfoil (the one covering the jar lids)stayed over the jar lid, to prevent contams. A little reading has told me that in fact the foil comes off, exposing those holes to the environment for gas exchange.
With those holes freely exposed to the environment allowing spores and such to fall on the top layer of the vermiculite barrier, it seems using the SAB or glove box is a somewhat unnecessary extra complicating step.
I understand the needle should be flamed, as it enters through and underneath the verm barrier. But why the need for such sterile conditions otherwise? Assuming of course the needle is used IMMEDIATELY after flaming.
On a side note, are there going to be any major consequences to using only two holes instead of the four? The holes are rather generous ~3mm and up to 5-6mm for the ones where the needle caused the foil to tear when innoculating, so I would imagine a great enough volume of gases can be exchanged...
Edited by Late2theparty (05/16/15 06:06 AM)
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Late2theparty
Rookie



Registered: 07/20/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Australia
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Re: PF Tek - why the need for a glove/still air box? [Re: Late2theparty]
#21685986 - 05/16/15 06:04 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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UPDATE: Based on paranoia of contams, literal tinfoil hats are now in use. 'shading' the jars from anything falling in, and allowing air exchange
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Dr. Baker
Stranger


Registered: 05/11/15
Posts: 23
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: PF Tek - dispute of need for a glove/still air box [Re: Late2theparty]
#21686156 - 05/16/15 07:54 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I've never used a still air box but with the problems I've been having lately I'm seriously considering it. I've always thought it was not necessary for PF jars but every little bit helps. Do you have any micropore tape? Put that over the holes, it should be more effective than your tin foil hats. Can't imagine why you'd only want 2 holes instead of 4. It will probably take longer to colonize with only 2 noc points. I use 1/8 inch (about 3mm holes) not sure if you'd be losing moisture through larger holes or not.
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2shoes
The anti-agar



Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 3,124
Loc: Not in a SAB
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Re: PF Tek - dispute of need for a glove/still air box [Re: Dr. Baker]
#21686198 - 05/16/15 08:09 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I don't use a SAB for PF and haven't come across any problems. I have 4 holes in my lids for FAE... pics please!!
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: PF Tek - dispute of need for a glove/still air box [Re: 2shoes]
#21686264 - 05/16/15 08:39 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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A SAB is used to create either a temporary or permanent barrier around your project.
Generally it is used to protect work when modifying, such as bulking, or transfers such as g2g.
PF tek uses foil barriers, easy for use without a SAB for beginners, PF tek is designed to be easy. Foil is not a safe bet for expert use, its not as effective as a SAB.
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2shoes
The anti-agar



Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 3,124
Loc: Not in a SAB
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Re: PF Tek - dispute of need for a glove/still air box [Re: Ferather]
#21686320 - 05/16/15 09:02 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Foil should only be used during the PC cycle then removed for inoculation and thrown away... you want GE.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: PF Tek - dispute of need for a glove/still air box [Re: 2shoes]
#21686437 - 05/16/15 09:48 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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If your only interested in covering your holes, place your jars in a large box, preferable plastic with lid, cardboard might work but it will block light. Make sure the container holds at least 2.5 x more volume than per jar. 1 x 240ml will need a 600ml box that can breathe.
One of these will do a few jars.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: PF Tek - dispute of need for a glove/still air box [Re: 2shoes]
#21686449 - 05/16/15 09:53 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's not actually a GE problem. It'd have to be very close to airtight for there not to be enough GE. You don't want any water building up and dripping onto the verm layer. Getting wet defeats the purpose of a dry verm layer.
I think a small shelter is a great idea! Unfortunately spores don't just fall in the air. It'd have to be still for them to do that. They drift with the air currents and there's currents everywhere
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: PF Tek - dispute of need for a glove/still air box [Re: Mad Season]
#21686490 - 05/16/15 10:09 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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True point, I've never done brf tek so makes sense.
I use those boxes for their lip system, GE and barrier, even if somehow a spore got in, it's unlikely to swim up into a pint cup of WBR with lid.
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burgerguy
Stranger


Registered: 08/04/14
Posts: 56
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: PF Tek - dispute of need for a glove/still air box [Re: Ferather]
#21686541 - 05/16/15 10:24 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I've only done brf up until this point. I leave the foil on after inoculation. I haven't had any problems yet with contamination or colonization.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: PF Tek - dispute of need for a glove/still air box [Re: burgerguy]
#21686568 - 05/16/15 10:29 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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But the condensation under the foil could leak into the inoculation holes dripping on top of the dry verm layer ruining the integrity of it, and giving a spot for baddies to germinate. You don't even need a lid. A dry verm layer is the filter requirement and you don't want it getting wet. The lid with holes micropore taped is an added counter measure
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wowimflabbergasted
supercalifragilistic



Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 18,918
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Re: PF Tek - dispute of need for a glove/still air box [Re: Mad Season]
#21686583 - 05/16/15 10:34 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Mad Season is right, the foil has nothing to do with GE. I wish people would stop spreading this.
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FreeWorldOrder


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 2,002
Loc: Indiana, USA
Last seen: 8 days, 7 hours
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I hear ya... there is A LOT of piss poor, if not downright false info on this thread.
There are reasons we practice good sterile procedure in this hobby. It is a good habit to develop.
I would NEVER recommend for anyone to not use a SAB for inoculations, grain to grain transfers, or agar work. Even when doing the PF-Tek. Especially bad advice for beginners.
I'm not saying that it can't be done, but is more luck than anything. Inoculating jars in the open air is just asking for problems....lol.
The only thing I do in "open air" is spawning fully colonized grains to properly prepared bulk substrates.
-------------------- "They who can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin Lets Grow Mushrooms Videos PastyWhyte's Easy Agar TEK Agar's Liquid Inoculant TEK
Edited by FreeWorldOrder (05/16/15 01:33 PM)
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2shoes
The anti-agar



Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 3,124
Loc: Not in a SAB
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Re: PF Tek - dispute of need for a glove/still air box [Re: FreeWorldOrder]
#21687809 - 05/16/15 06:06 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
wowimflabbergasted said: Mad Season is right, the foil has nothing to do with GE. I wish people would stop spreading this.
Okay so the bad info I offered has comes the same conclusion... no foil!!
Quote:
FreeWorldOrder said: I hear ya... there is A LOT of piss poor, if not downright false info on this thread.
There are reasons we practice good sterile procedure in this hobby. It is a good habit to develop.
I would NEVER recommend for anyone to not use a SAB for inoculations, grain to grain transfers, or agar work. Even when doing the PF-Tek. Especially bad advice for beginners.
I'm not saying that it can't be done, but is more luck than anything. Inoculating jars in the open air is just asking for problems....lol.
The only thing I do in "open air" is spawning fully colonized grains to properly prepared bulk substrates.
I do all of my inoculating at my dinner table without SAB and must have the best luck on earth because sometimes I leave my fan on too...
I hate working out of a SAB and only do so for agar and G2G...
I can show you the jars too!!!
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: PF Tek - dispute of need for a glove/still air box [Re: 2shoes]
#21687944 - 05/16/15 06:50 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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lots of people drive for years with no seat belt and never crash but when they do.
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2shoes
The anti-agar



Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 3,124
Loc: Not in a SAB
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Re: PF Tek - dispute of need for a glove/still air box [Re: bodhisatta]
#21687959 - 05/16/15 06:55 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I would feel comfortable inoculating a PF jar in a porta-potty or in the middle of the wood... its PF I'm willing to gamble the $.50 in materials.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: PF Tek - dispute of need for a glove/still air box [Re: 2shoes]
#21687980 - 05/16/15 07:01 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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you can open air inoculate anything with a injection port be it a brf cake with the verm barrier or a rubber thing or a silicone SHIP. but I would just pony up and do it in a SAB or FH every time anyway. needless to say I don't use injection ports at all for anything anymore so I have to use a SAB.
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 11 days, 10 hours
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Re: PF Tek - dispute of need for a glove/still air box [Re: bodhisatta]
#21688096 - 05/16/15 07:31 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: you can open air inoculate anything with a injection port be it a brf cake with the verm barrier or a rubber thing or a silicone SHIP. but I would just pony up and do it in a SAB or FH every time anyway. needless to say I don't use injection ports at all for anything anymore so I have to use a SAB.
I agree, you *can* get away doing PF tek open air. But an SAB is so cheap to construct, so easy to utilize.. why wouldnt you use it
--------------------
 Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: PF Tek - dispute of need for a glove/still air box [Re: mushpunx]
#21688105 - 05/16/15 07:35 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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people think they have to build a shitty SAB and deal with working in that most people are too ignorant to realize you could make a 5 sided box and leave the whole front off and that would work way better than open air. you can make a SAB out of more than just totes if you need more arm room or shoulder width too.
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MonkeyJesusFresco
am i suspended in agar?



Registered: 10/09/12
Posts: 3,306
Loc: South East USA
Last seen: 5 hours, 46 minutes
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Re: PF Tek - dispute of need for a glove/still air box [Re: mushpunx]
#21688109 - 05/16/15 07:37 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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just a big tub turned over and sticking over the edge of the table, just enough room to reach your arms in; cheap.
shit, I've done it with a cardboard box sprayed with bleach-water w/ arm holes cut into the sides and saran wrap over the top (so I could see in), terrible idea btw, but it worked
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