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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Abraham..
    #2168310 - 12/08/03 06:43 AM (13 years, 1 day ago)

.. was a schizo nutcase who went into the woods with his son because a voice in his head claiming to be God told him to take his kid out and kill him. In a moment of clarity Abraham realized his madness and went back to the village, and to talk his way out of the embarrassing lapse in his sanity told everybody that God had been testing his faith, and only told him so at the last minute but was pretty stoked that Abraham had so much faith in God's plan that he would kill his own son for him. This gave birth to the core beliefs of Judaeism, Christianity, and Islam. A friend of mine likes to tell the story that way. I think it's a pretty solid account, but then I don't really know much about these religions.

I do wonder why nowadays when someone hears God talking to him noboody takes him seriously, though.


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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: Abraham.. [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2168317 - 12/08/03 06:48 AM (13 years, 1 day ago)

I have a friend who is manic depressive and has voices in his head. If it is god talking to him, then god is real creep.


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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OfflineAlan Stone
Corpus

Registered: 11/23/02
Posts: 986
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Re: Abraham.. [Re: Positronius]
    #2168402 - 12/08/03 08:56 AM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Abraham was the first clan leader in Mesopotamia to renounce polytheism. He then had a mystical experience, which his clan said came from God, but he resused to use the word god. He called him 'El Khalil', the friend.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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Offlinegnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 6,481
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 2 months, 24 days
Re: Abraham.. [Re: Alan Stone]
    #2169123 - 12/08/03 04:31 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

well...
he had a contract with the tribal mountain god which his descendents (from wife sarai/sarah) called YHVH (& the other branch of his descendents (from sarai's handmaiden hagar) called ALLAH) --- but according to informed sources, he still kept a small collection of "idols" ...


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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OfflineAlan Stone
Corpus

Registered: 11/23/02
Posts: 986
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Re: Abraham.. [Re: gnrm23]
    #2169135 - 12/08/03 04:33 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

My source is an informed one too. He's a priest, and has studied mysticism for the last fifteen years, and has been an intern in the Vatican. I suppose he's had his share of access to information.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 12,756
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Re: Abraham.. [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2170048 - 12/08/03 11:16 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Perhaps you should read Soren Kierkegaard's book 'Fear and Trembling: The Sickness Unto Death' which begins with a chapter entitled 'A Panegyric Upon Abraham.' There, you will find a great philosopher's treatment of the Biblical events written about Abram/Abraham, and a transcendental perspective that counterbalances a modernist psychopathological interpretation. Do you, for example, believe that psychedelics are 'psychotomimetic' - that is to say, drugs that mimic psychosis?

Do you understand that from a medical model of understanding, psychedelic states of consciousness are considered to be states of pathology, mental illness (depersonalization, derealization, grandiosity), but from psychospiritual models, the very same states of consciousness are considered to be sacred? If you 'grok' this, then you must also select the model which best explicates the Biblical material. A psychological description wrongly reduces a transcendental teaching to a mere disease process. One could reduce the story to that, but it is just not 'the right tool' for the job. Read Kierkegaard.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Re: Abraham.. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2170167 - 12/09/03 12:03 AM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Wecome Back Markos :sun:
I didn't notice u here for a while...u were missed...
glad to have u back :smile:


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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Abraham.. [Re: lucid]
    #2170961 - 12/10/03 12:52 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks lucid. My computer has been sick, then enter reformatted it, which helped. Now I'm sick at home with the first real head cold in 7 years. I really ought to be napping!


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleTrueBrode
Stranger

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 287
Re: Abraham.. [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2170992 - 12/10/03 02:34 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Some influential religious and philosophical figures heard voices. Just off the top of my head, Socrates thought he was a mystic and heard voices, and of course Mohammad claimed to hear the voice of the only true God.

Maybe this is an argument for the "no free will" debate. Was God, the architect, implanting thoughts into these figures' heads, thoughts that would greatly impact and shape the world? That is what I always wondered.


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Offlinegnrm23
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Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 6,481
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Last seen: 2 months, 24 days
Re: Abraham.. [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2171012 - 12/10/03 03:39 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

oh sure, gnrmi's sappy reply is gone gone gone...
oh well...
ave markos !
~
oh yeah, something about julian jaynes & _the origins of consciousness: the breakdown of the bicameral mind_ in which he suggests that back in them olden golden days, everybody heard "the voice of god(s) right there inside their own heads...
www.julianjaynes.org wazzat it?


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care


Edited by gnrm23 (12/10/03 03:52 PM)


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OfflineZekebomb
sociophagus

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 1,164
Loc: BC province
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Re: Abraham.. [Re: gnrm23]
    #2172057 - 12/12/03 03:37 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I've got a 'yen' to 'grok' damn near anything


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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: Abraham.. [Re: Zekebomb]
    #2174556 - 12/13/03 01:05 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

stop reccommending Kierkegaard. Nobody needs to read that crap.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Abraham.. [Re: Positronius]
    #2175146 - 12/13/03 06:11 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks for the order. I have an idea...why don't you read Kierkegaard's 'Purity of Heart: Is to Will One Thing'? Maybe it will effect a positive change in your own personality.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: Abraham.. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2175208 - 12/13/03 06:56 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

no, my personality is positive enough, any more positivity would cloud my judgement. Kierkegaard is alright I guess, Ive read a few of his works, but I find him to be a tad neurotic.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Abraham.. [Re: Positronius]
    #2175229 - 12/13/03 07:08 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

flangar non flectar


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Invisiblemedicinebag
Hunting

Registered: 11/15/03
Posts: 344
Loc: The land of The People
Re: Abraham.. [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2179021 - 12/15/03 10:03 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Fuck Circumscision. That's sick. Please leave my penis alone, Great one.


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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