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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Nuclear could replace all fossil fuel electricity in 25-34 years
    #21682465 - 05/15/15 10:28 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.realclearscience.com/journal_club/2015/05/15/we_could_get_rid_of_fossil_fuel_electricity_in_just_25_years_with_nuclear_power_109222.html

Its just too bad this subject is so politicized. We really need to be educating the voting population and politicians about the realities of nuclear and how necessary it really is.


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Think for yourself, question authority


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Nuclear could replace all fossil fuel electricity in 25-34 years [Re: psyconaught]
    #21683064 - 05/15/15 01:11 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)



--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Nuclear could replace all fossil fuel electricity in 25-34 years [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21683122 - 05/15/15 01:26 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

i'm not against solar and wind, they have their place. However I think nuclear is the only viable option for the base power loads that a civilization needs.


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Think for yourself, question authority


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Offlinepsilynut
aka Patchraper

Registered: 10/22/09
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Re: Nuclear could replace all fossil fuel electricity in 25-34 years [Re: psyconaught]
    #21683316 - 05/15/15 02:21 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

A nuclear powered car may be possible someday. 

  http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1065040_thorium-powered-cars-a-million-miles-without-refuelling

  I'd buy one . If didn't look retarted , had 400 hp , and didn't weigh more than 3500 pounds .


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Nuclear could replace all fossil fuel electricity in 25-34 years [Re: psilynut]
    #21687280 - 05/16/15 02:32 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Thorium and fusion reactors are the ones we should be focussing on, the ones with abundant decentralized fuel and which do not produce long lived highly radioactive waste and cannot meltdown.

Lobbying for ordinary uranium/plutonium nuclear is not the way. Fukushima is proving that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium-based_nuclear_power


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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


Edited by Asante (05/16/15 02:38 PM)


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Nuclear could replace all fossil fuel electricity in 25-34 years [Re: Asante]
    #21687974 - 05/16/15 07:00 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Thorium and fusion reactors are the ones we should be focussing on



absolutely


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: Nuclear could replace all fossil fuel electricity in 25-34 years [Re: Asante]
    #21689032 - 05/17/15 01:06 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Perfecting fusion would be a real boon to humanity, that's for sure.


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Offlinepretzelking
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Re: Nuclear could replace all fossil fuel electricity in 25-34 years [Re: Le_Canard]
    #21689719 - 05/17/15 08:30 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)



We have had safe nuclear reactor prototypes for years. This particular reactor would shut itself down after losing coolant (ie the reason why ALL meltdowns have happened).


Edited by pretzelking (05/17/15 08:30 AM)


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
Re: Nuclear could replace all fossil fuel electricity in 25-34 years [Re: Le_Canard]
    #21691357 - 05/17/15 04:59 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Le_Canard said:
Perfecting fusion would be a real boon to humanity, that's for sure.




Forget perfecting it. Just figuring out how to get on the net positive side of the energy equation for more than a negligible amount of time would be more than enough.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Nuclear could replace all fossil fuel electricity in 25-34 years [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21692248 - 05/17/15 08:36 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Thorium reactors produce radioactive waste too. Fusion would be the way to go if it ever works. But then humans would colonize every square inch of the planet chopping down all trees and paving everything over leading to a rapid mass extinction. We make lemmings look smart.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
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Re: Nuclear could replace all fossil fuel electricity in 25-34 years [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21692398 - 05/17/15 09:12 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Thorium reactors produce radioactive waste too. Fusion would be the way to go if it ever works. But then humans would colonize every square inch of the planet chopping down all trees and paving everything over leading to a rapid mass extinction. We make lemmings look smart.




Why do you believe we would do that? If anything, the exact opposite would happen. As countries become more developed, population growth slows and even reverses. Therefore, more space is not really necessary. And, as population growth slows, so does our demand for resources. Fusion also allows us to consider fantastic methods of resource collection that were previously not cost-effective because of energy prices.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Nuclear could replace all fossil fuel electricity in 25-34 years [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21693916 - 05/18/15 10:02 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Thorium reactors produce radioactive waste too. Fusion would be the way to go if it ever works. But then humans would colonize every square inch of the planet chopping down all trees and paving everything over leading to a rapid mass extinction. We make lemmings look smart.




Why do you believe we would do that? If anything, the exact opposite would happen. As countries become more developed, population growth slows and even reverses. Therefore, more space is not really necessary. And, as population growth slows, so does our demand for resources. Fusion also allows us to consider fantastic methods of resource collection that were previously not cost-effective because of energy prices.




The history of the world has shown the opposite. The effect of developed countries slowing birth rates is offset by increased rates in other countries. It takes more than fusion to bring socially primitive people into the 21st century. With unlimited water from cheap power, deserts bloom, wasteland becomes farmland and houses spring up where there were none before.

Then there is the added pollution from all those new people, greater global warming which even if we stopped all co2 output from power plants, etc would keep going up for decades. The genie is out of the bottle on that.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


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Posts: 2,549
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Re: Nuclear could replace all fossil fuel electricity in 25-34 years [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21694731 - 05/18/15 02:24 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
The history of the world has shown the opposite. The effect of developed countries slowing birth rates is offset by increased rates in other countries.





The birth rates in the other countries is already extremely high, but world history shows that every country to date has followed the same path from developing to developed with lower birth rates and higher survival. There is no reason to think that fusion would do anything but speed up that process. Global population growth would absolutely slow.

Quote:


It takes more than fusion to bring socially primitive people into the 21st century.



The access to cheap energy is a requirement for any country to become developed and fusion provides just that in an amount never before seen in human history.

Quote:

With unlimited water from cheap power, deserts bloom, wasteland becomes farmland and houses spring up where there were none before.

Then there is the added pollution from all those new people, greater global warming which even if we stopped all co2 output from power plants, etc would keep going up for decades. The genie is out of the bottle on that.




With virtually unlimited energy and a decreasing birth rate, there is no reason for much more farmland. I don't see how you are reaching the conclusion that it would increase.

As for CO2, the invention of fusion essentially halts the vast majority of human carbon production. And with unlimited energy, we can pursue technologies that are currently entirely cost prohibitive, like carbon scrubbing. Again, I'm not seeing how you reached the conclusion that a non-carbon based, cheap, and limitless energy source would increase global warming.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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Invisibleabductee
Time
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Registered: 05/07/15
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Re: Nuclear could replace all fossil fuel electricity in 25-34 years [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21694766 - 05/18/15 02:33 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Woahh.. Nuclear is not needed. Look at fukushima, we are allready fucked.. its still leaking and the reactor core has made its way into the table water so now for hundreds of years that water draining into the ocean will be contaminated. Nuclear energy creates a waste that we cant just get rid of.. it builds up and we have to put all that waste somewhere.. nuclear energy is going to be what destroys our planet and creates monstrous mutations.. we are already on the way to our own destruction..why hasten it.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Nuclear could replace all fossil fuel electricity in 25-34 years [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21694784 - 05/18/15 02:38 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

>The birth rates in the other countries is already extremely high, but world history shows that every country to date has followed the same path from developing to developed with lower birth rates and higher survival. There is no reason to think that fusion would do anything but speed up that process. Global population growth would absolutely slow.

The main reason for the death rate in the third world is because of lack of food and clean water. Cheap power means cheap food and water = lower death rate and faster growth. Areas now uninhabitable would be used since heat, cooling, food, water etc become cheaper. With the same birth rate and lower mortality, pop growth goes up.

>The access to cheap energy is a requirement for any country to become developed and fusion provides just that in an amount never before seen in human history.


Oh really? I think you mean IF it existed, and IF it was very cheap then we would have cheap power.

>With virtually unlimited energy and a decreasing birth rate, there is no reason for much more farmland.

The drop in birth rates come much later after the country is westernized. Many cultures have a tradition of large families, that will not change rapidly.

>As for CO2, the invention of fusion essentially halts the vast majority of human carbon production

Not so. There is still the automobile, decomposing plant and animal material, heating which will be with wood or charcoal for a long time in developing countries. Even with fusion power plants the infrastructure must be built, the people must change over to electric heat, etc.

Even if all human caused release of co2 was stopped, temps would continue to rise for a long time as will the breakdown of the ozone layer.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: Nuclear could replace all fossil fuel electricity in 25-34 years [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21694974 - 05/18/15 03:41 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
The main reason for the death rate in the third world is because of lack of food and clean water. Cheap power means cheap food and water = lower death rate and faster growth. Areas now uninhabitable would be used since heat, cooling, food, water etc become cheaper. With the same birth rate and lower mortality, pop growth goes up.





If you follow the pattern of developing nations, they always go through a period where the mortality rate declines (particularly infant mortality) followed by a drop in birth rate. The first step to lowering the birth rate is lowering the mortality rate.

Quote:

Oh really? I think you mean IF it existed, and IF it was very cheap then we would have cheap power.




If it exists it will be cheap and virtually unlimited.

Quote:


The drop in birth rates come much later after the country is westernized. Many cultures have a tradition of large families, that will not change rapidly.




Countries don't have to be westernized for birth rate to fall. Really, they just have to advance from a survival society to a pre-modern society to see the biggest change.

Quote:

Not so. There is still the automobile, decomposing plant and animal material, heating which will be with wood or charcoal for a long time in developing countries. Even with fusion power plants the infrastructure must be built, the people must change over to electric heat, etc.

Even if all human caused release of co2 was stopped, temps would continue to rise for a long time as will the breakdown of the ozone layer.




Automobiles can run on energy, plant and animal material decomposing is not human-caused, and heating with wood is very efficient in terms of carbon. As fusion gets built, the power to build infrastructure will more and more come from fusion sources. I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Are you trying to argue that fusion will be worse for global warming??


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Nuclear could replace all fossil fuel electricity in 25-34 years [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21695298 - 05/18/15 05:33 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

>Countries don't have to be westernized for birth rate to fall. Really, they just have to advance from a survival society to a pre-modern society to see the biggest change.

You seem to be clueless about the fact that in many cultures having a large family is a tradition. A couple with 2 kids is considered almost childless. Because of high rates of infant mortality they crank them out as fast as possible. I agree one day they will wise up but not in the next few years as you seem to hope. We are talking about generations.

>Automobiles can run on energy,

Its called gasoline. You are not going to get a fusion plant inside a car, sorry.

>Are you trying to argue that fusion will be worse for global warming??

I am saying it will lead to a population explosion even worse than what is going on now. You are aware aren't you that world population is exploding?


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
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Re: Nuclear could replace all fossil fuel electricity in 25-34 years [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21695451 - 05/18/15 06:24 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Its called gasoline. You are not going to get a fusion plant inside a car, sorry.



i'd like to introduce you to this wonderful new technology called batteries.

Quote:

I am saying it will lead to a population explosion even worse than what is going on now. You are aware aren't you that world population is exploding?




Quote:

If this trend continues, the rate of growth may diminish to zero by 2050



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population


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OfflineDouglas Howard
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Re: Nuclear could replace all fossil fuel electricity in 25-34 years [Re: psyconaught]
    #21695789 - 05/18/15 08:04 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Nuclear versus solar

By Denver Nicks
Nearly all environmentalists love nuclear power. What they're divided on, really, is where to locate the reactor(s). Should we be building nuclear reactors distributed around our little planet where they'll produce energy for the surrounding area? Or should we instead just focus on harnessing the power produced by the massive nuclear reactor built for free by the cosmos and situated nearly a billion miles away at the center of our universe--what most people call solar power?
http://www.power-eng.com/blogs/energy-matters/2013/05/nuclear_versus_solar.html


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OfflineDouglas Howard
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Re: Nuclear could replace all fossil fuel electricity in 25-34 years [Re: psyconaught]
    #21695851 - 05/18/15 08:16 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Only thing that everyone and every companies should start making or using solar power equipment and appliances to prevent using up so much energy. And there is wind power that can help to lighten the load.


http://environment.nationalgeographic.com/environment/global-warming/hydropower-profile/


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