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OfflineAnarchoV
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Switching to hard white wheat berries
    #21682339 - 05/15/15 09:43 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Hello again everyone! I have been using WBS from Walmart for the last couple years. I have noticed this year with the last three bags that they are changing their seed make up. Last year, there was no cracked corn in the seed. This year, the bags went down about $0.50-1 per 20lb bag but it is filled with cracked corn (millet and sunflower too). The corn has kind of messed up my process because it has been in varying amounts in every bag. I want to switch to a more uniform seed.

I have found a fairly local grain supply store after tons of searching. They sell hard white wheat berries. I have read some on the forums about wheat berry tek. There seems to be a lot of differing opinions on their preparation. I have used rye berries and even oats in the past with some success. Should I prepare the wheat berries similarly? 24 hour soak with gypsum. Boil 10 mins (With WBS I would barely bring it to a boil before draining). Drain/steam dry. Load jars and PC.


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InvisibleJumpingfish
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Re: Switching to hard white wheat berries [Re: AnarchoV]
    #21683275 - 05/15/15 02:05 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I found that the hard red wheat berries hold up better in the 10 minute boil.  The white ones seem to burst more.  But even the white ones seem stronger than rye. 

I only soak 8 to 10 hours but I'll power soak them by bringing the soaking weak coffee/gypsum water up to 180F and let cool covered and repeat again after 4ish hours.  So double power soak 8 to 10 hours, rapid boil 10 min, steam dry and PC 1 1/2 hours.  Works like a charm for me.


Edited by Jumpingfish (05/15/15 02:07 PM)


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OfflineWillowHarvest
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Re: Switching to hard white wheat berries [Re: Jumpingfish]
    #21685984 - 05/16/15 06:01 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I've been using wheat berries for years and have never looked back.  Find a large metal container (pot) with a lid and fill with wheat berries.  You have to allow room for expansion of course, so try to only fill it 2/3 full or so.  Get enough water to cover your grain plus an extra 2-3 inches and heat to 180 degrees F. in a separate pot.  Pour the water over your wheat berries and allow to sit covered for 8-12 hours.  Drain, air dry, load, PC.  Easy and effective.


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Switching to hard white wheat berries [Re: WillowHarvest]
    #21686398 - 05/16/15 09:34 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I find if I leave 1-2" of water above the berries I can get them
Cooked perfect in about an hour or so without draining.  You run the risk of scorching the bottom so best to use a crummy pot for this.


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OfflineAnarchoV
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Re: Switching to hard white wheat berries [Re: drake89]
    #21688086 - 05/16/15 07:27 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for the replies. I only have access to hard white wheat not red. Thanks, willow and drake. I will try both your methods until I find one that works for me. Drake, do you do the normal 24 hour soak (1-2" above grains) then simmer for 1 hour?  I have a scorched pot dedicated to grain spawn already.


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Switching to hard white wheat berries [Re: AnarchoV]
    #21688134 - 05/16/15 07:45 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

No man I just leave about an inch or so of water and that leaves about 55% moisture content after all of the water is absorbed.  No burst grains.  No draining is the benefit of 'my' method.  I could never get water and berries to work in the PC in bags or jars.


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OfflineChris893
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Re: Switching to hard white wheat berries [Re: AnarchoV]
    #21688168 - 05/16/15 07:54 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

So drake, are you saying that you do this after soaking over heat or that is your soak?

If it's the second way, you don't have a problem with uneven water absorption? With the top grains absorbing less water than the bottom ones? Or does it all balance out when you PC?


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Switching to hard white wheat berries [Re: Chris893]
    #21688228 - 05/16/15 08:14 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

No soak.  The point is regular moisture content.  Not the only way to achieve that but the way I found to be least labor intensive.  I do it in an old 23qt PC pot


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OfflineAnarchoV
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Re: Switching to hard white wheat berries [Re: drake89]
    #21688388 - 05/16/15 08:59 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Interesting. So the 24 hour soak for the germination of endospores is unnecessary? This would make the process much faster and less labor intensive. Thanks, drake! Hope I can work it out successfully.


Edited by AnarchoV (05/17/15 03:30 AM)


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Switching to hard white wheat berries [Re: AnarchoV]
    #21689357 - 05/17/15 04:23 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

AnarchoV said:
Interesting. So the 24 hour soak for the germination of endospores is unnecessary? This would make the process much faster and less labor intensive. Thanks, drake! Hope I can work it out successfully.




yeah i mean there's a thread in the advanced section right now about endospores, frankly i don't think many people know much about them.  good luck!


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OfflinepoofterFroth
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Re: Switching to hard white wheat berries [Re: AnarchoV]
    #21689568 - 05/17/15 06:56 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

AnarchoV said:
Interesting. So the 24 hour soak for the germination of endospores is unnecessary? This would make the process much faster and less labor intensive. Thanks, drake! Hope I can work it out successfully.




If your looking to save time and utilities(water/gas), energy and labor - figure out the exact amount of water you need to add per grain jar to achive proper moisture content and then just add that amount to your dry grain and PC.

If your worried about endosmores:rolleyes: you can always let the jars soak over night working with your correct water to grain ratio and then PC them.

Drakes method is hinting at finding a proper water to grain ratio but is still using a lot of resources.


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Switching to hard white wheat berries [Re: poofterFroth]
    #21689607 - 05/17/15 07:27 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

poofterFroth said:
Quote:

AnarchoV said:
Interesting. So the 24 hour soak for the germination of endospores is unnecessary? This would make the process much faster and less labor intensive. Thanks, drake! Hope I can work it out successfully.




If your looking to save time and utilities(water/gas), energy and labor - figure out the exact amount of water you need to add per grain jar to achive proper moisture content and then just add that amount to your dry grain and PC.

If your worried about endosmores:rolleyes: you can always let the jars soak over night working with your correct water to grain ratio and then PC them.

Drakes method is hinting at finding a proper water to grain ratio but is still using a lot of resources.




I could never get even hydration using that method, always drier on top and burst grains on the bottom.


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OfflineWillowHarvest
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Re: Switching to hard white wheat berries [Re: drake89]
    #21689625 - 05/17/15 07:39 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

With my method you will smell the grains starting to ferment after about 12 hours of soak indicating that the endospores have germinated and are actively growing.  Once you PC, the smell disappears indicating effective sterilization.  Also you won't get any burst kernels.  There are lots of good ways to do grain obviously, everyone just eventually figures out what works best for them.  I started doing this because I have a short attention span, and I hate having to stir big pots of grain while cooking to keep the grains from scorching and bursting.


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OfflinepoofterFroth
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Re: Switching to hard white wheat berries [Re: drake89]
    #21689657 - 05/17/15 07:54 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Your probably adding to much water...

I almost always use jars for PC'ing grains so I've never attempted to use this method with bags - but it works great in the jars.

Definitely takes a little trial and error but when you nail it: :vibin:

I figured out the starting moisture content of my grains by weighing out 100 grams and then drying it in the oven at 200 degrees for a few hours and reweighing it.

Then I just added enough water to bring the moisture up to proper hydration percentage.

Once you math out the correct percentages you've got a good starting point and can then make up several jars all deviating slightly from that figured number.

Make up a few jars - exact to that amount, then make up some slightly over and slightly under. Label the jars with the amount added so you know which is which and PC them all together.

After the cook, pick out the jar that comes out looking the best and roll with whatever amount of water you labeled that jar to contain.

------
I recently read a post by solarity where he first weighed his grains dry, then simmered them to proper hydration, and afterward figured out how much water they absorbed by reweighing them. :wink:


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OfflineAnarchoV
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Re: Switching to hard white wheat berries [Re: poofterFroth]
    #21709830 - 05/22/15 09:42 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

So I skipped the normal soak and used Drake's method. It worked pretty flawlessly. I have to adjust the water level a little, but otherwise it worked like a charm. Once I have time to experiment, I will try getting the ratio of water to grain down and just PC. If I continue to see these results, I am done with the soak for endospores. Thanks guys!


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Switching to hard white wheat berries [Re: AnarchoV]
    #21709886 - 05/22/15 10:00 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

AnarchoV said:
So I skipped the normal soak and used Drake's method. It worked pretty flawlessly. I have to adjust the water level a little, but otherwise it worked like a charm. Once I have time to experiment, I will try getting the ratio of water to grain down and just PC. If I continue to see these results, I am done with the soak for endospores. Thanks guys!



:nyan:


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