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InvisiblehTx
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Seriously?
    #21679205 - 05/14/15 03:04 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Not one of you found the last publication posted in the Evolution Dogma thread interesting?

Well DQ did..anyways
The more i think about it, the more i see that the recently discovered observation that cells in the body rewrite their DNA to adapt to the environment, as pretty much one of the most important and upending discoveries in biology in a very long time.

We thought something like this was going on but lacked the evidence.

Since the discovery of DNA coupled with the dominance of Darwinism it was long thought DNA was stable as cells matured.
  Although that thought lacked evidence, it fit so nicely with current understanding of evolution (darwinism) that it wasnt really debated amongst scientists.

I brought up that something like the mechanism described in the discovery was occurring almost two years ago in the evolution dogma thread, one of the main arguments against me was the widely accepted belief that DNA was stable within the organism and evolution occured through a tiring process of random mutation and natural selection.
now it seems, as i and others have predicted, that beneficial mutations may not be entirely random.

Robert Anton Wilson and Leary described some phenomena (neurogenetic circuit) which can be associated with this discovery as well.

Darwin, look out.

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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Seriously? [Re: hTx]
    #21679212 - 05/14/15 03:06 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I don't know enough about DNA to comment on it:shrug:


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Seriously? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21679388 - 05/14/15 03:47 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

There was another interesting discovery that our brains are outfitted with retroviruses in some sort of symbiotic relationship.

Viruses are able to rewrite a cells DNA, in fact this is how they reproduce by injecting viral RNA into a cells genome so that the cell will produce viruses within the cell to the point of the cell membrane bursting and spreading the virus contained within.

I wonder if the viruses found hanging out around in our brains are helping rewrite DNA in neurons or other cells for the purposes of coding information derived from the environment within a cells genome.

If something like this is occurring..what does that say about the intelligence of DNA to colloborate in such a way?


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Seriously? [Re: hTx]
    #21680259 - 05/14/15 07:10 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Just today a study was published suggesting as complexity of social functions increase so does the complexity of gene networks.
This is the first study linking consciousness and DNA.

What's more, as social complexity increasingly affects gene regulation, natural selection of gene regulation slows.

All of these findings are in direct support of an alternate theory of evolution with regards to complexity as described here, on the shroomery.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Seriously? [Re: hTx]
    #21680467 - 05/14/15 07:57 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, hTx, any way you slice it, this seems to be very important and exciting news.  And I'll bet it's not sitting well with an awful lot of biologists!


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Seriously? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #21680519 - 05/14/15 08:09 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I dont have a laptop atm Orin would link the study..but google "bees complexity" in google news..was published earlier today and is in direct support of evolution complexity theory.

Funny thing is, you can see the bias towards darwinism within the article.

They call the results "surprising"


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Seriously? [Re: hTx]
    #21680600 - 05/14/15 08:28 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150514142951.htm

Yeah, pretty interesting.

Quote:

"It appears from these results that gene networks get more complex as social life gets more complex, with network complexity driving social complexity," Robinson said.




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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: Seriously? [Re: hTx]
    #21681410 - 05/15/15 12:33 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

If I spend all my time in the ocean, will I develop gills?


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Seriously? [Re: White Beard]
    #21681783 - 05/15/15 05:07 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
If I spend all my time in the ocean, will I develop gills?




Yes, by the end of your life time your ears will be both used for capturing sound and removing oxygen from the water.  These are also known as gearls.  Interesting phenomenon


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Seriously? [Re: Cognitive_Shift] * 1
    #21682008 - 05/15/15 07:37 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I think the point is that it's beginning to appear convincingly that there is a legitimate complexification process driving natural selection, which is somehow intelligent and nonrandom.  Orderly, rather than purely chaotic.  This is pretty important, because it rather upends orthodox Darwinian theory.  Nothing to be sneezed at, certainly.  Real science.


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InvisibleKurt
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Re: Seriously? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #21685946 - 05/16/15 05:38 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

And as regards to this theory, maybe your staunchest critics will not be scientists but philosophers. :-)


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Seriously? [Re: Kurt]
    #21686252 - 05/16/15 08:35 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

That is to be wholeheartedly encouraged.  :smile:


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Seriously? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #21689328 - 05/17/15 04:09 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

It ws also very recently discovered that DNA changes with the seasons..clearly it is receiving information through consciousness.

And thats basically the essence of the theory, that consciousness is primary in evolution gathering information and evolving DNA in real-time.


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Seriously? [Re: hTx]
    #21689332 - 05/17/15 04:11 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
It ws also very recently discovered that DNA changes with the seasons



How does DNA know when the leaves are falling?


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Seriously? [Re: hTx]
    #21689336 - 05/17/15 04:14 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

DNA may well be where memories are stored..the entire memory of dNA 's existence may well be stored within DNA.

The reincarnation experience as described by many an acidhead may be evidence that psychedelics allow us to access the genetic memory banks..

And even converse with the architect itself.

DnA is a brain, everything composed a neuron.
And it is very, very intelligent.


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Seriously? [Re: hTx]
    #21689339 - 05/17/15 04:16 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
DNA may well be where memories are stored..the entire memory of dNA 's existence may well be stored within DNA.



What evidence do you have?  What trails of logic do you have that points to this, not even actual evidence.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Seriously? [Re: hTx]
    #21689342 - 05/17/15 04:17 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Those that have perceived its presense have many references to its awareness as described by many spiritual terminology throughout history.
The oversoul and Atman.
Brahman.
DNA is the oversoul.


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Re: Seriously? [Re: hTx]
    #21689345 - 05/17/15 04:20 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

So brahman were aware of DNA before James Francis and Watson Crick?  Pre-1953?


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Seriously? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21689370 - 05/17/15 04:31 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

On an intuitive and poetic level, yes.
The poetry of Rumi and other poets describe evolution over a thousand years before Darwin.


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Re: Seriously? [Re: hTx]
    #21689378 - 05/17/15 04:33 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
On an intuitive and poetic level, yes.




DNA has nothing to do with poetry.

What you said sounds graceful and I want to believe it but I think it's crap.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Seriously? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21689386 - 05/17/15 04:38 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
So brahman were aware of DNA before James Francis and Watson Crick?  Pre-1953?



Ancient amazonian tribes taking DMT have accurately described DNA and even had knowledge of its spiral form.
There is an author who stayed with a tribe and remarked on the similarities in a book.

When asked how the shaman gained such vast knowledge of herbs and psychedelic plants, they replied "the plant spirits revealed them to us".


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Seriously? [Re: hTx]
    #21689392 - 05/17/15 04:44 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Its been shown as a matter-of-fact that DNA changes in real-time.
Its also been shown that DNA is aware of the seasons and changes accordingly.
And that gene networks become more complex in spite of natural selection.
This shows with little doubt that DNA is constantly absorbing information and reacting to it in real-time..
not over thousands of years with random mutation and natural selection.

There seems to be a feedback mechanism between DNA and experience.


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OfflineRennHuhn
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Re: Seriously? [Re: hTx] * 1
    #21691190 - 05/17/15 04:18 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Thats "old" news. By the way Darwinism is also no longer the churrent theory. The current theory is called synthetic theory of evolution, thats the combination of old school darwin with more modern knowledge about biology.

Years ago they discovered that the food you eat during your pregnancy is also an epigenetic factor. All in all the idea that 90% of DNA is junk is thoroughly refuted and on the garbage pile of science the big qurstion is now how the expression of these rarely activated genes works in detail.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Seriously? [Re: RennHuhn]
    #21691237 - 05/17/15 04:34 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I was being modest.
The current theory is wrong if it does not include consciousness or complexity.



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Edited by hTx (05/17/15 04:51 PM)


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Seriously? [Re: RennHuhn]
    #21691310 - 05/17/15 04:48 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:



Years ago they discovered that the food you eat during your pregnancy is also an epigenetic factor. All in all the idea that 90% of DNA is junk is thoroughly refuted and on the garbage pile of science the big qurstion is now how the expression of these rarely activated genes works in detail.



DNA codes information. Consciousness perceives information.

DNA reacts intelligently even to weather.
Consciousness is associated with intelligence.
If intelligence is associated with DNA, than so must consciousness.

Consciousness seems to be communicating with DNA, altering it intelligently to adapt to the environment.
Meaning on a grander scale, the evolution of the complexity of consciousness is behind the complexity of physical (genetic) evolution. 
Consciousness is primary in evolution, the physical effects come secondary after information is gathered by consciousness from the environment, and is responded to intelligently and accordingly.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Seriously? [Re: hTx] * 2
    #21691419 - 05/17/15 05:15 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

DNA as a whole seems to work on a level of intelligence that we would expect from an AI.

It reprograms itself and expresses itself in nearly infinite forms gathering information from the environment and responding intelligently to it.

This in and of itself does not prove much.

However, with respects to complexity theory, we see that DNA has a purpose beyond that of adaption to the environment.

It seems to be apart of some sort of universal constant whereby the present moment may be seen as being some huge acceleration of novelty, and thereby complexity.
Because the greater the novelty, the greater the history, and combined we see that the past and the present directly accelerate the whole of times complexity and evolution.

Novelty literally new things, ideas, genomes, information...creativity.


Or it all may be apart of some positive universal feedback mechanism that makes the universe infinite.

Ultimately, DNA is related to this because out of billions of years of evolution, the human brain was formed..
Greatly accelerating the novelty factor and complexity of both consciousness and physicality...even beyond itself with the human invention of technology.
Which in this way, technology can be seen as an extension of evolution (which on a broader scale applies to every thing in the universe, life is an evolution of the universe) as we are able to use consciousness to quickly adapt by invention and tool-making...
Our tool-making and accelerating sophistication of technology greatly increases order and complexity in the universe.

Due to this, and humans natural ability to be creative, I must conclude that life is ubiquitous throughout the universe, and serves a purpose of ultimately reversing entropy in an infinite universe.

Its likely every planet which harbors some form of life ( its very likely DNA is spread throughout our galaxy) on a long enough time-line, will follow a pattern of creating intelligent and creative beings.


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OfflineRennHuhn
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Re: Seriously? [Re: hTx]
    #21693506 - 05/18/15 06:11 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

You can argue like that just fine. The arguement will get better once we discover a link between epigenetic factors and brain chemistry and in reverse.

Funny how years ago every one laughed when peolple like mckenna proposed that mushrooms my interact with our dna... Epigenetics is truly the hot stuff right now :laugh:


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Re: Seriously? [Re: RennHuhn]
    #21693523 - 05/18/15 06:34 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

So the discovery that neurons constantly rewrite their DNA doesn't satisfy that criteria?


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Re: Seriously? [Re: RennHuhn]
    #21693525 - 05/18/15 06:36 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I can attest that hTx has correct and true information.

All biological entities record and change their DNA to fit their environment. This new information, which was not originally in the parent's birthed DNA, is passed onto the next generation in order for it to be better adapted to the [changing] environment in which it now lives. If needed, the new life will change its genetic coding during its lifetime, and pass that on as well.

I had always thought this was old news, but never studied the theory's history.


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Re: Seriously? [Re: hTx]
    #21693530 - 05/18/15 06:39 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I support your Idea! I dont want to be critical. But there is still a need to bridge the gap towards procreation.


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Re: Seriously? [Re: Arctic W. Fox]
    #21695390 - 05/18/15 06:01 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Arctic W. Fox said:
I can attest that hTx has correct and true information.

All biological entities record and change their DNA to fit their environment. This new information, which was not originally in the parent's birthed DNA, is passed onto the next generation in order for it to be better adapted to the [changing] environment in which it now lives. If needed, the new life will change its genetic coding during its lifetime, and pass that on as well.

I had always thought this was old news, but never studied the theory's history.



Epigenetics has been around for a bit, maybe ten years or more..
However, it wasnt known just how extensive real-time gene regulation was until recently.
The leading thought prior to a few weeks ago was that DNA remains relatively stable, especially in mature cells.
Thats been shown to not be the case.
That's the new news.
That and the article describing the correlation between social complexity and gene network complexity..
I said something like this was occurring over a year ago, that as complexity of consciousness increases physical complexity would increase as informed by consciousness.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Seriously? [Re: hTx]
    #21695504 - 05/18/15 06:41 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

10 years?  Maybe you first heard of it ten years ago.  The idea is 200 years old.  Maybe some meaningful addition to it happened ten years ago?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamarckism


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