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johnnytheswede
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Have made a lot of Lion's Mane powder, howto prepare?
#21678169 - 05/14/15 08:59 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hi forum,
I am in the process of harvesting a lot of Lion's Mane and I am making a powder to have as a medicinal supplement, I am very inspired by Paul Stamets' description of Lion's Mane being the "smart mushroom" that will increase clarity of thought, memory and resilience of the nerves (as it contains NGF, Nerve Growth Factor).
My question is how do I prepare the powder for maximal benefit with my goal in mind, do I cook the powder or do I just ingest the powder as it is?
I am occasionally preparing a traditional Indian food called Idlys which is a fermented rice/lentil paste that gets steamed for about 50 minutes, would it be a good idea to pour some powder into these cakes and ingest the Lion's Mane in that manner?
My deeper concern is of course that I do not wish to expose the Lion's Mane powder to any process that would destroy the Nerve Growth Factor, then it would be all that work for nothing.
Kind regards Johnny
-------------------- Just learning to cultivate mushrooms, immensely impressed by Paul Stamets ("Pair up with Fungi!") and the knowledge and helpfulness at The Shroomery. Concentrating on Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms: Reishi, Shiitake, Garden Giant, Lion's Mane, Turkey Tail. Acronyms (for noobs like me): http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5875173#Post5875173 Have opted out of rating system because of personal reasons, read my bio if you are interested in why. (I opted out before receiving or giving any ratings, meaning no offense to anyone.)
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johnnytheswede
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Re: Have made a lot of Lion's Mane powder, howto prepare? [Re: johnnytheswede]
#21697922 - 05/19/15 10:39 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Update:
I just spoke with Fungi Perfecti over email and they said that they prepare their Lion's Mane powder by autoclaving before putting the powder in the capsules (of course they dry the powder also). However, they would not disclose for how long time they autoclave: "the rest is in Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms and Paul's cultivation seminars" - I was told. OK, they need to make a living. But do any of you guys have a suggestion for a reasonable time to pressure cook the Lion's Mane powder?
(I have emailed several LM-powder vendors but no one seems to reply, I guess they might be hesitant about encouraging self-sufficiency.)
Kind regards Johnny
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Migraine
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Re: Have made a lot of Lion's Mane powder, howto prepare? [Re: johnnytheswede]
#21698012 - 05/19/15 11:08 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Use the powder and perform a double extraction:
(Power + water) - PC for 14 hours to extract most soluble compounds.
Strain well -- take remaining MUD and add vodka (at least 120 proof or better) and keep for 45 to 60 days.
Remove MUD -- reduce water extraction volume so that when added to alcohol extraction volume (note proof) - you end up with 50% alcohol and 50% water -- giving total solution 100 proof.
Dispose of dried MUD or use it in cooking -- but most compounds have been removed.
The body does not like to digest mushrooms to the point where it (the body) can extract the medicinal compounds -- so it's best to do the extraction process.
The PC'ing as stated by FP is to kill any contaminates your powder has come into contact with.
The BIG manufacturers that make this stuff (power) keeps the complete process as sterile as possible -- so they generally don't need to PC.
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johnnytheswede
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Re: Have made a lot of Lion's Mane powder, howto prepare? [Re: Migraine]
#21698252 - 05/19/15 12:35 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thank you very much Migraine sounds like a rigorous procedure, just to clarify, I am making my own write-up of this based on your text, could you check that I got everything down?
1. Mix powder and water and PC for 14 hours at 15 PSI to extract most soluble compounds. Take one liter of water in a bowl with powder and steam the bowl inside the pressure cooker. Or just PC LM-powder in water adding water as you go? (14 hours will diminish the water content.)
2. Strain well, keep the liquid aside and take the remaining MUD and add vodka (at least 120 proof or better) and keep for 45 to 60 days. Meanwhile keep the liquid set aside in the freezer.
3. After 45-60 days remove MUD -- reduce water extraction volume by boiling so that some water evaporate and when added to alcohol extraction volume (note proof) - you end up with 50% alcohol and 50% water -- giving total solution 100 proof. Boiling away water to get to 50% alcohol in the final solution means that it will be quite thick, like a paste eh? (Since the 60% solution will dilute pretty soon to 50%.)
4. Dispose of dried MUD or use it in cooking -- but most compounds have been removed.
Did I get the procedure correct (jeez! 14 hours of pressure cooking!)
Kind regards Johnny
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Migraine
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Re: Have made a lot of Lion's Mane powder, howto prepare? [Re: johnnytheswede]
#21698511 - 05/19/15 01:51 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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You will find most people say to boil for a couple of hours but that does not break down the material that contains the compounds you are interested in.
You can boil for 14 hours but you have to be constantly adding water.
You want temp to stay below 300f.
I take a mason jar (like one I use for gain spawn) - fill no more than 1/2 with your powder. Add enough water to be 25% more than power (so if 1/2 mason has power - fill water until 3/4 full -- includes power).
I use a top that allows for gas exchange -- if you don't have one -- drill a couple 1/8 holes in top and make a filter from a USPS 2 day shipping bag (tyvek).
Place one or more in your PC and bring to temp as you would for agar or grain.
Cook for 14 hours -- just make sure you have enough water in you PC to allow for whatever steam escapes -- don't run it dry.
Let it cool in the PC then open.
Extract as much liquid from the mud as you can. Place liquid in a jar and place it in the frig. It will keep several months -- but will contaminate if longer. You can stop here if you like but you will miss out on the alcohol extractable compounds.
Place mud in a mason jar - fill with vodka or grain alcohol so that liquid is about 15% - 25% higher than mud -- you may need MORE depending on the proof vodka you are using -- see below for WHY.
Shake every other day -- keep doing this for 45 to 60 days.
Make sure you note the proof of the alcohol you use --- .
I use "Everclear - grain alcohol - 190 proof -- you will see why in a moment.
As I said - the water extraction will last a couple of months but then has a good chance of contaminating. You solve this by mixing in alcohol which protects it as long as it's a 35 to 50% ratio (If you can only get 100 proof vodka -- then go with a 35-40% end ratio).
I use weight -- you can use volume. I'm assuming that alcohol has a close to water weight to volume ratio --- 1:1.
I extract all the liquid from the alcohol extraction and weigh the resulting alcohol. If you half the proof -- you get the percentage of alcohol to water -- so if its Everclear at 190 proof -- that 95% alcohol and 5% water.
Two examples --- lets assume you have 8 oz of 190 proof extraction and 8 oz of 100 proof extraction.
190 proof sample -- yields 7.6 oz of alcohol and .4 oz of water.
100 proof sample --- yields 4 oz of alcohol and 4 oz of water.
Select the resulting extract proof you want for your final tincture. I use 50% -- you may want 35% if you are only using 100 proof vodka.
You need the following values for your work -- your final proof you are shooting for and the amount of alcohol and water in your alcohol extraction.
Now you will need to simmer your Water Extraction liquid until you get to the desired volume or weight as defined below.
Let's use the examples again ...
Example 1: 8 oz of 190 proof extraction which gives me 7.6 oz of alcohol and .4 oz of water. Using my target of 100 proof (or 50% alcohol) -- I am looking for a total water content of 7.6 oz. I already have .4 oz water in the alcohol extract so I must simmer my water extraction down to 7.2 oz. Then I mix my 7.2 oz water extraction liquid and my 8 oz of alcohol extract and I have a 100 proof double extraction tincture.
Example 2: 8 oz of 100 proof extraction which gives me 4.0 oz of alcohol and 4.0 oz of water. Using my target of 70 proof (or 35% alcohol) -- I am looking for a total water content of 7.4 oz.
This is how you figure it: oz real alcohol divided by wanted percentage equal total volume: 4/.35 = 11.4 oz. Now subtract 4 oz of real alcohol which gives wanted total water in 70 proof tincture of 11.4 - 4.0 = 7.4 oz water.
I already have 4.0 oz water in the alcohol extract so I must simmer my water extraction down to 3.4 oz (7.4 - 4.0 = 3.4). Then I mix my 3.4 oz water extraction liquid and my 8 oz of alcohol extract and I have a 70 proof double extraction tincture.
You can see that the higher the proof the less simmering required to get the water extraction liquid down to proper amount.
Once you mix the two together to acquire a double extraction tincture -- keep it in the frig and it can last a year.
I do this with all of my medicinal mushrooms.
Hope that helps.
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johnnytheswede
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Re: Have made a lot of Lion's Mane powder, howto prepare? [Re: Migraine]
#21698845 - 05/19/15 03:32 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thank you very much, this feels like solid information. I am particularly happy about your informative examples.
You write
Quote:
Place liquid in a jar and place it in the frig.
do I not have to put it in the freezer if it is going to be awaiting the alcohol extraction to complete during 45-60 days? Will it not go bad during 45-60 days in the fridge?
I also have a chaga double extraction going and I have read elsewhere that double extractions are done doing the alcohol part first, during 3 months and then strain and boil for a (mere) couple of hours the material ... it is then very interesting to read about your procedure where you start with the water-extraction part and that the boil is indeed 14 hours! Very good to know indeed.
Concerning the chaga extract, could I just do the water-extraction part (after straining) by boiling it for 14 hours like you do and then simmering down to get to about 100 proof?
Do you have any comments on the order, is it important to do water-part before the alcohol-part like you do or can I be fine with doing the alcohol-part first? If it is OK to do the alcohol-part first that would resolve the issue around the liquid going bad in the fridge, however, if there are distinct advantages of doing the water-part first then, that is worth noting.
(I do hope you do not suffer from migrains, if so I hope you have found a cure ... could it be so, that mushrooms help you? Just curious I hope you don't mind. I like to spread good news/knowledge.)
Kind regards Johnny
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Migraine
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Re: Have made a lot of Lion's Mane powder, howto prepare? [Re: johnnytheswede]
#21698964 - 05/19/15 04:08 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Frig to me is a refrigerator - not a freezer.
You can do alcohol or water first -- order does not matter.
My thoughts are --- the heat from the water extraction may help break down some compounds which will make the alcohol extraction more complete (just a thought without any facts to base that statement on).
By doing water extraction first, if I choose to, I can actually start taking the water extraction compounds during the time I'm waiting for the alcohol extraction to complete -- it also reduces the amount of water extraction liquid to complete the final proof calculation -- hence less alcohol is required in the end.
To me, those are pluses that say -- do water first.
Chaga is no different. Do one type of extraction or both -- depends on the time you want to put into it and what you expect out.
I grow a lot of medicinal mushrooms (not!) only in mycelium form. My grain spawn id done with human eatable grain and the left to fully colonize. I grind the fully colonized (wait until all of the grain is consumed -- 2 to 4 months) grain spawn - dry it and then perform a double extraction.
I do grow some out to fruits -- if I do -- I just add the fruit power the the "spawn powder" -- and produce my tincture. THAT is typically referred to as "wide spectrum" or "total spectrum" or ????
I don't use the term so I forget the actual phrase.
My spouse and two sons -- all have bad migraines.
I'm working on THAT also --- mushrooms work great for "Cluster Headaches" -- look into "Cluster Busters" for more info on that topic.
Good luck.
The best thing about producing your own medicinal mushroom based products is you know exactly what's in them and how strong they are. Many of the products commercially sold have fillers added and do not break down in the body as the user hopes.
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johnnytheswede
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Re: Have made a lot of Lion's Mane powder, howto prepare? [Re: Migraine]
#21699233 - 05/19/15 05:15 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I am sorry to hear that your entire family have migraines, but perhaps then you can at least understand each other. I really really hope that you will find solace or even cure somehow soon.
I have heard of people (and witnessed one on this forum) being helped for cluster head aches by mushrooms and another hopes that mushrooms will help with multiple sclerosis. Me myself I am hoping that Lion's Mane will help me improve memory and cognitive skills. (I am spared from the more serious health challenges.)
Very interesting to read your insights about the possibility of starting to take the water extract while waiting for the alcohol going.
Quote:
The best thing about producing your own medicinal mushroom based products is you know exactly what's in them and how strong they are. Many of the products commercially sold have fillers added and do not break down in the body as the user hopes.
Extremely good point!
Thank you very much for taking the time to write comprehensively. I hope this thread will benefit many people. If you need help with mathematics some time, just shoot me a PM! (Not that you goofed in any way, it's just that I'd like to be helpful to helpful people.)
Kind regards Johnny
Edited by johnnytheswede (05/20/15 04:40 AM)
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