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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic

Registered: 10/27/14
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is is possible to have a free society and a drug free society at the same time?
#21660227 - 05/10/15 06:59 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Is it possible to live in a free society and a drug free society at the same time?
-E. Borodin
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KauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: is is possible to have a free society and a drug free society at the same time? [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
#21660242 - 05/10/15 07:09 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said: Is it possible to live in a free society and a drug free society at the same time?
-E. Borodin
Very, very unlikely. Real freedom would mean the freedom to ingest what you want as long as you don't hurt others. This kind of freedom is scary to the ruling (political and wealth) classes so they put restrictions on it for the "greater good" of the society they prefer and often PR it as "protecting the children."
Real freedom for the masses scares the shit out of the people in power.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: is is possible to have a free society and a drug free society at the same time? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#21665981 - 05/11/15 04:07 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Drug crimialization has been used all through out history to oppress, jail and harrass otherwise harmless cultures, it makes non-violent, non-criminal people into prisoners. the drug war is being manipulated by the very people claiming to stop it....
The government has no right to tell you what plants you can own, grow, and eat, these are all personal freedoms that every citizen should have the choice to express.
I use marijuana, LSD, psilocybin/psilocin, ayahuasca, DMT, peyote, and sen Pedro for religious purposes, they are genuine religious purposes, the first amendment States that the government has no right to interfere with your religious practices, so prosecuting me just for owning or cunsuming these plants is unconstitutional, these plants are not hurting anybody, and I'm not hurting anybody with them, so weather you dislike it or not its a "victimless crime" and I should have the religious freedom to my entheogenic plant eucharists, which have been in use for religious and medicinal purposes by cultures all across the globe for thousands of years, so its not like I'm the only person on earth using these things likes this, they have all been established in legitimate faiths, so why is my right to practice these legitamate faiths being denied?
If you ask a prohibitionist can you have a free society and a drug free society at the same time they would probably say "yes" but then again when questioned these people wont even admit that methamphetamine is more dangerous than marijuana, seriously watch the film "culture high" this was at some political function and the head of an anti-drug government agency was being questioned and would not answer this question....so there's no way they could honestly answer the question that is the topic of this post....which shows how delusional the people who truley believe in drug prohibition are, they refuse to admit that some illegal drugs are more dangerous than others when the evidence is right in front of them. No matter how logical or Proven by science, or reasonable our case is they refuse to listen, and refuse to accept the truth.
-E. Borodin
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KauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: is is possible to have a free society and a drug free society at the same time? [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
#21666644 - 05/11/15 06:25 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said: Drug crimialization has been used all through out history to oppress, jail and harrass otherwise harmless cultures, it makes non-violent, non-criminal people into prisoners. the drug war is being manipulated by the very people claiming to stop it....
The government has no right to tell you what plants you can own, grow, and eat, these are all personal freedoms that every citizen should have the choice to express.
I use marijuana, LSD, psilocybin/psilocin, ayahuasca, DMT, peyote, and sen Pedro for religious purposes, they are genuine religious purposes, the first amendment States that the government has no right to interfere with your religious practices, so prosecuting me just for owning or cunsuming these plants is unconstitutional, these plants are not hurting anybody, and I'm not hurting anybody with them, so weather you dislike it or not its a "victimless crime" and I should have the religious freedom to my entheogenic plant eucharists, which have been in use for religious and medicinal purposes by cultures all across the globe for thousands of years, so its not like I'm the only person on earth using these things likes this, they have all been established in legitimate faiths, so why is my right to practice these legitamate faiths being denied?
If you ask a prohibitionist can you have a free society and a drug free society at the same time they would probably say "yes" but then again when questioned these people wont even admit that methamphetamine is more dangerous than marijuana, seriously watch the film "culture high" this was at some political function and the head of an anti-drug government agency was being questioned and would not answer this question....so there's no way they could honestly answer the question that is the topic of this post....which shows how delusional the people who truley believe in drug prohibition are, they refuse to admit that some illegal drugs are more dangerous than others when the evidence is right in front of them. No matter how logical or Proven by science, or reasonable our case is they refuse to listen, and refuse to accept the truth.
-E. Borodin
Illegal drugs like Heroin, Cocaine and Marijuana have funded more black ops and secret budget projects while giving the government access to a powerful mercenary type army that is completely off the books. No one wants to hear how our government PROFITS from the illegal drug war but that's what you have to look at if you truly want to understand why certain plants are illegal to use.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
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Re: is is possible to have a free society and a drug free society at the same time? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#21668609 - 05/12/15 05:37 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Here is one of my posts from another thread:
Our government has interest in these things being contraband, during viet-nam the CIA used its "air-america" to sell herion on a global scale.....why? You ask, it was because general pao and his anti-commnist army who were fighting side by side along American troops were Americas key ally, and general pao and his army were funding themselves by selling herion, and the United States could not give tax dollars to this army (if your wondering why look at Iran contra),so to fund this anti-communist army the CIA began running herion world-wide...... Any time our government needs large ammounts of untraceable cash, they sell drugs. so the CIA, DEA, and other parts of government have interest in KEEPING these compounds illegal... so there is no "drug" problem, its an addiction problem, and the addiction is our government being addicted to large sums of untraceable cash
Law inforcement has interest in drugs being illegal as well, through "asset forfiture" they will allow a drug to dealer to operate, they will let him make large sums of money and property, then they will arrest him, now, all of that drug money gets deposited directly into the department, then all the property is auctioned off, and the money goes to the department.....so law inforcement has interest in drugs being contraband.....
Then there's the private prison system, these people receive tax money for every prisoner detained, they have interest in keeping those cells full, now, most people don't commit prison worthy crimes, but if you make drugs illegal, folks who are otherwise law abiding citizens become jailable....(these private prisons will also pay judges to convict and send folks who do not belong in prison their way, keeping cells full.
....I think that just about covers it, in the post you were refering to I was searching for more of a philosophical reason for psychedelic prohibition beyond all the political reasons I listed above....
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_involvement_in_Contra_cocaine_trafficking
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_drug_trafficking
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra -eleusis borodin
......
thank you for bringing it up though as many people neglect this aspect of the drug war when it should be the most obvious.
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
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Re: is is possible to have a free society and a drug free society at the same time? [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
#21668615 - 05/12/15 05:44 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Here Mr. Terence mckenna eloborates:
For example, I'm a great afficianado of hashish, and hashish became very hard to get in the United States in the late 70's. But as soon as the Russians invaded Afghanistan, suddenly there was massive amounts of excellent Afghani hashish, at prices that nobody had seen for fifteen years. Well, the reason was, the CIA knows that hashish is not really a problem. But what they wanted is, they wanted an income for the mujahadin. And they had to pay for all these weapons. So they just started bringing it in wholesale. And it wasn't even a smuggling operation. I mean, I received reports from people who said, you know, 'Smuggling? They're not smuggling. They're unloading it on pier 39, union local 1030 is taking off, you know, five hundred pound blocks of hashish by the tens of thousands.' And the day the Afghan war ended? They staged an enormous series of interlocking busts on their own infrastructure, and they closed it down, and they pulled it to pieces.
When Khomeni kicked out the Shah, the Iranian heroin business then fell under the control of the mulahs, and at that point, suddenly cocaine emerges as a major problem in the United States, because we just switched our supply lines. We could no longer depend on Iranian heroin, because we couldn't depend on these screwy Islamic fundamentalists, so we just turned toward all of these company assets in Honduras and Ecuador and Columbia. Very, very cynical.
You know, it's only been a hundred and twenty years since the so called opium wars. Very few people know what the opium wars, what was the issue in the opium wars. Well, it turns out the British government wanted to deal opium in China, and the Chinese Emperor told them to get lost. And they flipped. And they sent naval units, and they laid siege to several Chinese cities, and they forced the Chinese imperial court to agree that they could deal as much opium as they wanted on the wharves of Shanghai...
The Japanese, when they invaded Manchuria in the Second World War, they immediately began producing heroin and opium in vast amounts, not then as an economic strategy, but as a strategy to break the will of the Chinese population by encouraging addiction, and there was vast amounts of opium addiction. If any of you saw 'The Last Emperor,' you recall that his mistress was severely addicted to opium, and it depicted it in a number of scenes.
So governments have very cynically manipulated drugs, so that the drugs which make it possible for capitalism to function are cheap and freely available, and the drugs which erode dominator values, or cause people to question their situation, are savagely supressed.
You see, the hidden issue, and it need not be hidden among us...the government always tries to paint itself as the mother hen, concerned about her errant chicks. And so, to keep you from crashing into other people on the freeway, to keep you from leaping out of buildings or committing society, we have to control these drugs. As a matter of fact, you know, this is absurd. More people die because of alcohol than all illegal drugs combined in a given year. The government is not your friend on this issue. The government is very concerned to control the mass mind. And marijuana --my God, since the British Commission on Hemp, which was in 1889, I believe -- the British East India Company commissioned a study of hemp -- they have spent millions and millions and millions of dollars to find something, anything, you name it, wrong with cannabis. There is nothing wrong with cannabis. It is the most thoroughly tested, pawed over, and examined drug in human history. And they just come up with the lamest stuff. I mean, they tell you, you know, you're gonna have tits. Give me a break. They say, 'You won't be motivated in your job.' Like your job is supposed to be the (pinnacle) against which all things are to be measured.
And I think people on our side of this question have been tremendously naive, because people just think, 'We just have to convince them that it's harmless.' *It ain't harmless.* It is a knife poised at the heart of dominator values. It would make the modern industrial assembly line, political loyalites, the macho image projection -- all of these little tricks that they're running are severely eroded by cannabis. And they will stop at nothing to eradicate it. Look at the budget of the DEA --what are they doing? They're giving, 65% is dedicated to cannabis eradication. Heroin gets 20%, coke gets all the rest. It's demonstrably absurd the way the money is spent,unless you have a secret agenda of some sort. And if your agenda is to supress the evolution of unwanted social attitudes in the American public, then you have to keep your eye on cannabis very very closely. The new guy who heads the War on Drugs, Martinez? This guy, I heard him on NPR this week,and his most passionate moment in the half hour interview was, he said, 'We have pushed the price of an ounce of cannabis past the price of an ounce of gold, and we're going to keep it that way.' Nothing about eradication, talk about keeping the price high. The fact that they refuse to tax it when they're starving for revenue shows that there must be a secret agenda. It doesn't make any kind of sense.
When I wrote this book, I did a lot of research on an area I didn't know that much about, which is, let's say from 1500 to the present, drugs of addiction. And what I discovered is drug smuggling is like assassination. If the government isn't involved, it never seems to really happen. And governments have been using drugs for centuries as forms of secret revenue. This whole sugar thing that I laid out to you, those were decisions made by the crown heads of Europe in collusion with the Pope. It wasn't common people who set those policies in place.
During the 1960's, when the black ghettos began to come apart, suddenly number three China white heroin was cheaper and more available than it had ever been in any time in this history of the heroin problem in the United States. Why? Because the CIA saw, you know, all these black guys are getting up, a bunch of uppity niggers as the government calls them, you just smother it in heroin. Get everybody either hooked or making money...
And they don't care really about the effects of drugs, and one group, one faction will work against another. For example, I'm a great afficianado of hashish, and hashish became very hard to get in the United States in the late 70's. But as soon as the Russians invaded Afghanistan, suddenly there was massive amounts of excellent Afghani hashish, at prices that nobody had seen for fifteen years. Well, the reason was, the CIA knows that hashish is not really a problem. But what they wanted is, they wanted an income for the mujahadin. And they had to pay for all these weapons. So they just started bringing it in wholesale. And it wasn't even a smuggling operation. I mean, I received reports from people who said, you know, 'Smuggling? They're not smuggling. They're unloading it on pier 39, union local 1030 is taking off, you know, five hundred pound blocks of hashish by the tens of thousands.' And the day the Afghan war ended? They staged an enormous series of interlocking busts on their own infrastructure, and they closed it down, and they pulled it to pieces.
When Khomeni kicked out the Shah, the Iranian heroin business then fell under the control of the mulahs, and at that point, suddenly cocaine emerges as a major problem in the United States, because we just switched our supply lines. We could no longer depend on Iranian heroin, because we couldn't depend on these screwy Islamic fundamentalists, so we just turned toward all of these company assets in Honduras and Ecuador and Columbia. Very, very cynical.
You know, it's only been a hundred and twenty years since the so called opium wars. Very few people know what the opium wars, what was the issue in the opium wars. Well, it turns out the British government wanted to deal opium in China, and the Chinese Emperor told them to get lost. And they flipped. And they sent naval units, and they laid siege to several Chinese cities, and they forced the Chinese imperial court to agree that they could deal as much opium as they wanted on the wharves of Shanghai...
The Japanese, when they invaded Manchuria in the Second World War, they immediately began producing heroin and opium in vast amounts, not then as an economic strategy, but as a strategy to break the will of the Chinese population by encouraging addiction, and there was vast amounts of opium addiction. If any of you saw 'The Last Emperor,' you recall that his mistress was severely addicted to opium, and it depicted it in a number of scenes.
So governments have very cynically manipulated drugs, so that the drugs which make it possible for capitalism to function are cheap and freely available, and the drugs which erode dominator values, or cause people to question their situation, are savagely supressed.
Psilocybin actually erodes the ego. This is what is put against a lot of psychedelics. They say, 'These stoners, they don't punch the time clock, and when you threaten to fire them, it seems to have no effect on them. I don't know how to reach these people.' Well, the way you reach them is you appeal to something other than the ego.
Modern industrial civilization has very skillfully promoted certain drugs and supressed others. A perfect example is caffeine. Caffeine -- I hate to tell you this -- caffeine is a fairly dangerous drug. It isn't dangerous in that a cup of coffee will kill you, but a lifestyle built around caffeine is going to --you're not going to live to be a hundred years old, or even seventy, unless you are statistically in the improbably group. Why is caffeine not only tolerated but exalted? Because, boy, you can spin those widgets onto their winkles just endlessly without a thought on your mind. It is *the* perfect drug for modern industrial manufacturing. Why do you think caffeine, a dangerous, health destroying, destructive drug, that has to be brought from the ends of the earth, is enshrined in every labor contract in the Western world as a right? The coffee break -- if somebody tried to take away the coffee break, you know, the masses would rise in righteous fury and pull them down. We don't have a beer break. We don't have a pot break. I mean, if you suggested, 'Well, we don't want a coffee break. We want to be a ble to smoke a joint at eleven,' they would say, 'Well, you're just some kind of -- you're a social degenerate, a troublemaker, a mad dog, a criminal.' And yet, the cost health benefit of those two drugs, there's no comparison. Obviously, pot would be the better choice. The problem is, then you're going to be standing there dreaming,rather than spinning the widgets onto the nuts. (laughter)
Coca leaves would be very good. I suspect in the near future we may see the legalization of coca as a sop to the mentality that wishes to see cocaine... Andy Weil, who's a good friend of mine -- we don't agree on everything, but -- a few years ago he had great enthusiasm for a coca chewing gum. And I never got on the bandwagon because I didn't see that we needed another high focus industrial stimulant on the market. But coca would be great, and certainly in the Amazon, if you're a petrone, you encourage your workers to chew coca. I mean, they're worthless without coca. Give them coca and put a machete in their hands and they will just flail for hours at the bush.
Another example that's interesting, that shows how blinded and unaware we are of how drugs have shaped our society...We all know that slavery ended in the United States in the Civil War. And most people, if you question them, think that slavery existed before the Civil War in many places back into ancient times. This is not true at all. Slavery died in Western civilization with the collapse of the Roman empire. During the Dark Ages and the medieval period, if you owned a slave, you owned *one* slave. It was the equivalent of owning a Ferrari or a Lamborghini. It was an index of immense wealth, and social status, and that slave would be a houseboy, or a cook or something like that, someone close in to you, taking care of you. It was inconceivable to use slave labor in the production of an agricultural product, until Europe acquired an insatiable desire for sugar.
Now, let's think about sugar for a moment. Nobody needs sugar. You can go from birth to the grave without ever having a teaspoon full of white sugar. You will never miss it. Throughout the Dark Ages and the Middle Ages, sugar was a drug, a medicine. It was used to pack wounds, to keep wounds septic. And it was very expensive and there was very little of it. Nobody even knew where it came from. It was called cane honey, because they knew it came from some kind of jointed grass, but nobody had a clear picture of what sugar was.
Well, when you extract sugar from sugar cane, it requires, in pre-modern technology, a temperature of about 130 degrees. You cannot -- free men will not work sugar. It's too unpleasant. You faint, you die from heat prostration. You have to take prisoners and you have to chain them to the sugar vats. And so, before the discovery of America, in the fifty years before the discovery of America, they began growing sugar cane in the east Atlantic islands, Medeira and the Canary Islands. And they brought Africans, and sold them into slavery specifically for sugar production.
Now when we get American history, they tell you that slaves were used to produce cotton and tobacco. In fact, this is not quite the truth. They had to find things for slaves to do, because they brought so many slaves to the New World to work sugar, and they had so many children, that then they just expanded and said, 'Well, we've used slaves to work sugar, we might as well use them in cotton and tobacco production.' In 1800, every ounce of sugar entering England was being produced by slave labor of the most brutal and demeaning sort. And there was very little protest over this. It was just accepted. To this day, sugar cultivation in the third world is a kind of institutionalized slavery. Christian, you know, the Popes, the kinds of Europe, all of Christian civilization acquiesced in the bringing back of a practice that had been discredited during the fall of Rome, in order to supply the insatiable need for sugar. It was an addiction. It had no cultural defense whatsoever.
http://stopthedrugwar.org/taxono my/term/183 the site above has massive ammounts of valuable drug war information.
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
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Re: is is possible to have a free society and a drug free society at the same time? [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
#21668624 - 05/12/15 05:47 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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http://stopthedrugwar.org/
The link above the poll was suposed to be as above
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
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Re: is is possible to have a free society and a drug free society at the same time? [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
#21668635 - 05/12/15 05:53 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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The funny thing is LSD, DMT, psilocin/psilocybin, and mescaline, the classic entheogens, have never been money makers, they are not as exploitable as the pop-drugs, so if not to oppress and harass innocent cultures, than why? Why will they not ease up their stranglehold when it comes to psychedelics?
-E. Borodin
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KauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
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Re: is is possible to have a free society and a drug free society at the same time? [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
#21673247 - 05/13/15 03:35 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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We are "given" three "recreational" drugs by the government … all three highly addictive … but just 3 that we're "trusted" to use legally without restriction:
Caffeine, Alcohol, Sugar …
And we, as a free society vote to support these utterly ridiculous restrictions. So many of us are so completely bought into the myth of "protecting the children" that we give away real freedom in return for a set of boundaries, like bumpers on a bowling lane, to keep this society of dangerous humans from stepping out of line.
There are much, much better recreational alternatives than caffeine, alcohol and sugar, that's for sure.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: is is possible to have a free society and a drug free society at the same time? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#21673448 - 05/13/15 05:52 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said: We are "given" three "recreational" drugs by the government … all three highly addictive … but just 3 that we're "trusted" to use legally without restriction:
Caffeine, Alcohol, Sugar …
And we, as a free society vote to support these utterly ridiculous restrictions. So many of us are so completely bought into the myth of "protecting the children" that we give away real freedom in return for a set of boundaries, like bumpers on a bowling lane, to keep this society of dangerous humans from stepping out of line.
There are much, much better recreational alternatives than caffeine, alcohol and sugar, that's for sure.
Yes but caffine, tobbacco, and sugar, promote work place behavior, they get you just pumped up enough to get your job done without giving you much in return as far as a psychological experiance, they are tools of those who feel that the meaning of life is product production, and anything outside of or interfering with product production must be elemeniated....mckenna dives into this in the same speach as I posted above, though knowing nobody would have the patience to read through the whole thing I simply posted a clip of the lecture....
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
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Re: is is possible to have a free society and a drug free society at the same time? [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
#21673461 - 05/13/15 05:57 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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You see, the hidden issue, and it need not be hidden among us...the government always tries to paint itself as the mother hen, concerned about her errant chicks. And so, to keep you from crashing into other people on the freeway, to keep you from leaping out of buildings or committing society, we have to control these drugs. As a matter of fact, you know, this is absurd. More people die because of alcohol than all illegal drugs combined in a given year. The government is not your friend on this issue. The government is very concerned to control the mass mind. And marijuana -- my God, since the British Commission on Hemp, which was in 1889, I believe -- the British East India Company commissioned a study of hemp -- they have spent millions and millions and millions of dollars to find something, anything, you name it, wrong with cannabis. There is nothing wrong with cannabis. It is the most thoroughly tested, pawed over, and examined drug in human history. And they just come up with the lamest stuff. I mean, they tell you, you know, you're gonna have tits. Give me a break. They say, 'You won't be motivated in your job.' Like your job is supposed to be the (pinnacle) against which all things are to be measured.
Modern industrial civilization has very skillfully promoted certain drugs and supressed others. A perfect example is caffeine. Caffeine -- I hate to tell you this -- caffeine is a fairly dangerous drug. It isn't dangerous in that a cup of coffee will kill you, but a lifestyle built around caffeine is going to --you're not going to live to be a hundred years old, or even seventy, unless you are statistically in the improbably group. Why is caffeine not only tolerated but exalted? Because, boy, you can spin those widgets onto their winkles just endlessly without a thought on your mind. It is *the* perfect drug for modern industrial manufacturing. Why do you think caffeine, a dangerous, health destroying, destructive drug, that has to be brought from the ends of the earth, is enshrined in every labor contract in the Western world as a right? The coffee break -- if somebody tried to take away the coffee break, you know, the masses would rise in righteous fury and pull them down. We don't have a beer break. We don't have a pot break. I mean, if you suggested, 'Well, we don't want a coffee break. We want to be a ble to smoke a joint at eleven,' they would say, 'Well, you're just some kind of -- you're a social degenerate, a troublemaker, a mad dog, a criminal.' And yet, the cost health benefit of those two drugs, there's no comparison. Obviously, pot would be the better choice. The problem is, then you're going to be standing there dreaming,rather than spinning the widgets onto the nuts. ---Terence mckenna
I thought these clips really applied to what you were saying....
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
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Re: is is possible to have a free society and a drug free society at the same time? [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
#21673465 - 05/13/15 05:59 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Who ever transcribbed that mckenna lecture left quite a few typos in it....
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
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Re: is is possible to have a free society and a drug free society at the same time? [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
#21673899 - 05/13/15 09:10 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Is there any way I can "edit" and move the poll to the top of the page where I intended it to go? I know you guys probably only know as much as I do, but I thought it couldn't hurt to ask.
-E. Borodin
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: is is possible to have a free society and a drug free society at the same time? [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
#21676512 - 05/13/15 08:58 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Yes but caffine, tobbacco, and sugar, promote work place behavior, they get you just pumped up enough to get your job done without giving you much in return as far as a psychological experiance, they are tools of those who feel that the meaning of life is product production, and anything outside of or interfering with product production must be elemeniated....mckenna dives into this in the same speach as I posted above, though knowing nobody would have the patience to read through the whole thing I simply posted a clip of the lecture....
-E. Borodin
McKenna is a very interesting guy that says a lot of interesting things, many of which are very insightful and even profound. I think he was completely wrong with his whole zero wave predictions, but he did have some great insights and I am thankful for that.
We, the voters, have the power to radically change our country and unfortunately, we, as a group, are locked into a mentality of supporting those that essentially lead AGAINST our best interests. I find that quite amazing and think the machinery at work to get us to do that year after year is quite mysterious.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: is is possible to have a free society and a drug free society at the same time? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#21678097 - 05/14/15 08:29 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Its best not to look at mckenna in terms of right or wrong. Its the ideas that were important.
As for the time wave, there are ups and downs of novelty through time. (There was a group conducting "random coin flip" studies, they compared the head to tails ratio over time and found that yes, at some times heads occor more than tails, before the 911 attacks all the coins were only flipping heads....so had you thrown the I-ching it would have picked up on this) so these ups and downs are on a graph, which is made of a line (which mckenna generated with the I-ching via the ken-wen sequence), this line needs a start and an end, all 2012 was, was the end of the line....
everything else he said about 2012 was speculating on what COULD happen, NEVER in his career did he EVER say a single thing WOULD happen....he was a master of speculation and philosophy, so asking "does it have basis in the real world" is beside the point, he was trying to lift you out of your "cognitive Kansas" with novel thought patterning....so looking at it as right or wrong is an error.
I think too many people listen to what is said about mckenna while ignoring what mckenna actually said. Listen to the "history ends green" mckenna tape series, only about 15% of the whole of every lecture that makes that series contains these highly novel, seemingly crazy, ideas that mckennas critics seem to believe was the center of his philosophy....
Mckenna was a skeptic, an intellectual, and an extremley reality based scientific thinker, and if these statements do not appear accurate, its proof positive that there was crucial misinterpretation of mckenna.
E. Borodin
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When you speak of the voters, this is an illusion, all you votes are sent to the electoral college, where they are used more as "suggestions"....plus it is entirley possible for the majority to be wrong, so majority rule does not mean whats best for everyone...which is another fatal flaw in the democratic method...
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