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InvisibleTheDude
is waiting forthe peak

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 2,876
Creation through Thought
    #2167706 - 12/08/03 12:59 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

If everything in our life is a manifestation of the mind (total solipsism), then who is to say that ?hallucinations? do not actually exist?  They do exist in one form or another, and that form is in your thoughts/visions themselves.  So if you were to say that things exist based simply on the fact that you imagine them, it sounds a little strange but it does make sense because the definition of 'existence' is essentially a construct of our minds as well.

However, if you argue that it makes no sense, then you are basically stating that thoughts or visions don't exist; therefore our ability to define existence doesn't exist itself either!

any thoughts or am i completely insane? :spliff: :lol:


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Offlinemanna_man
High onlife.....andcrack

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Vancouver
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Creation through Thought [Re: TheDude]
    #2167936 - 12/08/03 03:06 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

"who is to say that ?hallucinations? do not actually exist?"

Depends on what you mean by "exist".
There is a big difference between existing in the mind and actually existing in reality.Suppose I see, very far in the distance, a dead cat on the road, however, upon further examination it turns out to be merely a pile of clothes. What you think and what is actually true do not always fit together.
Your belief of a hallucination is only considered true if it corresponds to the objective fact.


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This post is protected under copyrite law.All above content is strictly the property of ?manna_man.Any infringement of copyright property is strictly prohibited.Any violators will be stretched, shot, and then vaporized into a state of anti-matter, where they will cease to exist.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Creation through Thought [Re: manna_man]
    #2167945 - 12/08/03 03:11 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Holy shit, dude!
You've just given solid evidence for the INexistence of solipsism.

If solipsism were true, we would be able to "snap out" of a strong hallucination regardless of the dosage. I've never heard of this happening, therefore... duh.

Of course, a solipsist could then argue that the rules governing your mind mandate this impossibility... but then, who wrote the rules?


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinemanna_man
High onlife.....andcrack

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Vancouver
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Creation through Thought [Re: manna_man]
    #2167946 - 12/08/03 03:11 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

What I mean is that hallucinations exist just as much as our regular thoughts do, just not in an objective sense. It is much easier for the THOUGHT of a 20 foot tall man to exist than it is for it's actual existence in reality.
Does that make any sense?


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This post is protected under copyrite law.All above content is strictly the property of ?manna_man.Any infringement of copyright property is strictly prohibited.Any violators will be stretched, shot, and then vaporized into a state of anti-matter, where they will cease to exist.


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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: Creation through Thought [Re: Sclorch]
    #2167947 - 12/08/03 03:12 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

solopsism is dumb


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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InvisibleTheDude
is waiting forthe peak

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 2,876
Re: Creation through Thought [Re: Sclorch]
    #2167994 - 12/08/03 03:36 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Sclorch said:
If solipsism were true, we would be able to "snap out" of a strong hallucination regardless of the dosage. I've never heard of this happening, therefore... duh.





You can't snap out of those type of hallucinations because they are a direct result of taking a drug; you cannot think "ok drug, go away" and have the molecules physically leave your brain. Im talking about visions you use your mind to consciously manifest.


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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: Creation through Thought [Re: TheDude]
    #2168001 - 12/08/03 03:40 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

I know a few people who can will themselves out of the effects of hallucinigens


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Creation through Thought [Re: TheDude]
    #2168004 - 12/08/03 03:41 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

If everything in our life is a manifestation of the mind




It isn't a manifestation of the mind.  Objective reality exists. 

:sun:


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man = monkey + mushroom


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InvisibleTheDude
is waiting forthe peak

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 2,876
Re: Creation through Thought [Re: pattern]
    #2168015 - 12/08/03 03:47 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

then why can't we track the exact location of electrons, the most basic building block of the "objective reality" we know?


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"this lebowski he called himself 'the dude'. now, 'dude', that's a name no one would self-apply where i come from but there was a lot about the dude that didn't make sense to me...."--the Stranger


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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Creation through Thought [Re: TheDude]
    #2168028 - 12/08/03 03:53 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

I'd wager that is because we don't yet know how to.

Although, a wise man once said: "Location is everything."  :stoned:


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man = monkey + mushroom


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Creation through Thought [Re: Positronius]
    #2168031 - 12/08/03 03:55 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Positronius said:
I know a few people who can will themselves out of the effects of hallucinigens



Do tell...


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleTheDude
is waiting forthe peak

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 2,876
Re: Creation through Thought [Re: pattern]
    #2168040 - 12/08/03 03:59 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

pattern said:
I'd wager that is because we don't yet know how to.





Touche, the sky is the limit....


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"this lebowski he called himself 'the dude'. now, 'dude', that's a name no one would self-apply where i come from but there was a lot about the dude that didn't make sense to me...."--the Stranger


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Invisiblemr crisper
.

Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 928
Re: Creation through Thought [Re: TheDude]
    #2168048 - 12/08/03 04:04 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

If everything in our life is a manifestation of the mind



do you mean one's own mind or the mind?


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Invisiblemr crisper
.

Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 928
Re: Creation through Thought [Re: pattern]
    #2168050 - 12/08/03 04:05 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

a wise man once said: "Location is everything"



my real estate agent always says that.


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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: Creation through Thought [Re: mr crisper]
    #2168086 - 12/08/03 04:32 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

"Do tell..."

a good friend of mine has the ability to will himself out of the effects of a decent dose of mushrooms.

hes a chemistry/comp sci double major though....so he probably has concentration abilities that exceed that of the average mental waif.

Ive never tried this, but I try to excercise my concentration skills through self-imposed sleep deprivation, its difficult at first, but with hard work and practice, progression will take place.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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InvisibleXibalba
Stranger
Registered: 05/14/00
Posts: 2,114
Re: Creation through Thought [Re: Positronius]
    #2168151 - 12/08/03 05:07 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)



Edited by Xibalba (09/30/05 01:08 AM)


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OfflineAlan Stone
Corpus

Registered: 11/23/02
Posts: 986
Loc: Ten feet up
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Creation through Thought [Re: manna_man]
    #2168419 - 12/08/03 09:18 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

manna_man said:
What I mean is that hallucinations exist just as much as our regular thoughts do, just not in an objective sense. It is much easier for the THOUGHT of a 20 foot tall man to exist than it is for it's actual existence in reality.
Does that make any sense?




If there is no way to tell if the colour green looks the same to you as it looks to me (regardless of the agreement to call it green), how can you speak of objective reality like it certainly exists?


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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