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 Ilift
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/13
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 How does one have enlightened experiences while meditating? 
#21656030 - 05/09/15 04:48 AM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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I frequently hear from those who claim to have had enlightening and profound experiences from meditating and i have started doing it, i find it clears my mind and even though i was physically tired my mind was well rested. I have had a few moments when i become "present" the feeling is almost as if i wake up briefly as there is a profound shift in my mind from a few seconds previous this is an incredible experience. My main question is how you can have profound thoughts while the whole purpose of meditation is to calm your thoughts?
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head
Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 8,781
Loc: straya 
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: How does one have enlightened experiences while meditating? [Re: Ilift]
#21656034 - 05/09/15 04:52 AM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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Badger badger badger badger badger badger badger
MUSHROOM MUSHROOM
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My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...
TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE
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 PocketLady
Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,773
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Re: How does one have enlightened experiences while meditating? [Re: Ilift] 1
#21656135 - 05/09/15 06:39 AM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think meditation is less about having profound thoughts, and more about totally penetrating the present moment. Having a profound experience doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with thoughts, just an experience. Thoughts are just things the mind makes up, often about an experience, but they are not the experience itself. When you are completely present, you are not thinking, you are just aware. So the point is to be in awareness instead of being wrapped up in the unconscious workings of the mind. This process begins by being able to independently observe ones thoughts, instead of becoming involved in them.
There are three different stages to meditation.
1. Concentration (dharana) - Putting your attention on the object of your meditation. During this stage, your attention will drift, you will be taken away by your thoughts and you have to keep bringing yourself back to the object of meditation.
2. Meditation (dhyana) - After some time, concentration will lead to meditation which is where you begin to effortlessly focus on the object. This is a sustained awareness of the object without interruption. Here, you really begin to deepen into the present moment more and more.
3. Absorbtion (samadhi) - Eventually meditation will lead to a very deep state of absorption where the observer (the person meditating) merges with the object being observed and the acting of observing itself. This can lead to even deeper states where time ceases to exist, merging with God/universe etc, similar to "ego death" with psychedelics.
The more you are able to stay present, the deeper you are able to go. The trouble is that our minds throw up lots of subconscious nonsense when you sit down to meditate, so it takes a lot of consistency in practice and combining different styles of meditation and clearing out subconscious imprints to be able to reach Samadhi states.
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Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.
~ Rumi
The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
Edited by PocketLady (05/09/15 06:45 AM)
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: How does one have enlightened experiences while meditating? [Re: Ilift]
#21656563 - 05/09/15 09:37 AM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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First define enlightenment before we can talk about anything else.
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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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liquidlounge
Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: How does one have enlightened experiences while meditating? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#21657224 - 05/09/15 12:38 PM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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My current view on enlightenment:
Perceiving the world as a board of chess. Fully grasping who the peseants are, and the higher people of rank. Wherever in society.
There's where the word originated.
This current view of mine can change, just like the board of chess.
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As far as I assume to know...
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: How does one have enlightened experiences while meditating? [Re: liquidlounge]
#21657232 - 05/09/15 12:40 PM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm aware of the class structure of peasantry and the financial elite and in-between. I don't feel enlightened
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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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liquidlounge
Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: How does one have enlightened experiences while meditating? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#21657257 - 05/09/15 12:45 PM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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Note that I wrote: Wherever in society.
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As far as I assume to know...
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: How does one have enlightened experiences while meditating? [Re: liquidlounge]
#21657261 - 05/09/15 12:47 PM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think everyone is aware of where they fit into the scheme of society
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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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liquidlounge
Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: How does one have enlightened experiences while meditating? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#21657286 - 05/09/15 12:54 PM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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The whole picture, from your previous conversation.
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As far as I assume to know...
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Ilift
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/13
Posts: 843
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: How does one have enlightened experiences while meditating? [Re: PocketLady]
#21658985 - 05/09/15 08:56 PM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
PocketLady said:
I think meditation is less about having profound thoughts, and more about totally penetrating the present moment. Having a profound experience doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with thoughts, just an experience. Thoughts are just things the mind makes up, often about an experience, but they are not the experience itself. When you are completely present, you are not thinking, you are just aware. So the point is to be in awareness instead of being wrapped up in the unconscious workings of the mind. This process begins by being able to independently observe ones thoughts, instead of becoming involved in them.
There are three different stages to meditation.
1. Concentration (dharana) - Putting your attention on the object of your meditation. During this stage, your attention will drift, you will be taken away by your thoughts and you have to keep bringing yourself back to the object of meditation.
2. Meditation (dhyana) - After some time, concentration will lead to meditation which is where you begin to effortlessly focus on the object. This is a sustained awareness of the object without interruption. Here, you really begin to deepen into the present moment more and more.
3. Absorbtion (samadhi) - Eventually meditation will lead to a very deep state of absorption where the observer (the person meditating) merges with the object being observed and the acting of observing itself. This can lead to even deeper states where time ceases to exist, merging with God/universe etc, similar to "ego death" with psychedelics.
The more you are able to stay present, the deeper you are able to go. The trouble is that our minds throw up lots of subconscious nonsense when you sit down to meditate, so it takes a lot of consistency in practice and combining different styles of meditation and clearing out subconscious imprints to be able to reach Samadhi states.
Very nice thanks allot  , could you perhaps redirect me to some more eastern thought orientated books along this topic?
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stanski
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Re: How does one have enlightened experiences while meditating? [Re: Ilift] 1
#21660204 - 05/10/15 06:44 AM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well there are a lot of bhuddist scholars out there who might help you understand what you might see when enlightened (I. E. The three marks of existence, impermanence, non-self, and enlightenment), and you can know this and believe this on the psychological level if you choose to do so. However you can only truly know these truths if you experience them for yourself; to truly know on a physical level, those I have listened to say you must experience it. The Buddha laid out his own path for experiencing this, and a technique for doing this (following the noble 8 fold path), but at the end of the day from what I understand he said your reality and your truth is whatever you yourself experience. You can use his teachings as a guide to show you the way.
I struggle with this thought and this doubt about enlightenment, but then now while thinking of it I realize it's not staying in the present or being mindful to think this way since I am not close to enlightenment. I just see the benefits for myself of practicing the 8 fold path and meditation in my personal life so I continue to do it whether it leads to something or not, I can't be sure of anything I don't experience myself. I hope this helps and that you find a community, teacher, friend, or partner to help you on this journey, as it is so vital to have I believe.
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R0B0G3N3S1S
Quantum Mechanic
Registered: 04/08/15
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Re: How does one have enlightened experiences while meditating? [Re: stanski]
#21660265 - 05/10/15 07:22 AM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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Meditate. Realize that meditating won't solve the problems. Then pretend like your doing nothing. While solving the problem with thought. Then do it. the burden of the problem being lifted, You are now enlightened of the load.
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One should of, but shouldn't of had to.
Because One Shouldn't of, but had to.
Pm me If you are trying to discuss that one thing that everybody knows but is so hard to put into words.
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SeaShrooms
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Re: How does one have enlightened experiences while meditating? [Re: R0B0G3N3S1S]
#21664425 - 05/11/15 08:25 AM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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Answering the OP.
I have found the longer I've practiced meditation the less "profound" experiences I've had, leading me to believe they are nothing more than hallucinations.
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The life of a condemned soul is hatred.
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R0B0G3N3S1S
Quantum Mechanic
Registered: 04/08/15
Posts: 330
Loc: Noosphere
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Re: How does one have enlightened experiences while meditating? [Re: SeaShrooms]
#21666968 - 05/11/15 07:37 PM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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as the blue water flowing from my third eye, penetrating the black lead and pools into the stone I hold into my hand, it starts to wobble in my hand, and then jumps up an inch, comes down a half, levitating for a moment. Then with a tactile touch lands back on my hand. Either this shit is real, or meditation gives you super suggestive powers to build an experience for other meditators.... Intentional hallucinations?
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One should of, but shouldn't of had to.
Because One Shouldn't of, but had to.
Pm me If you are trying to discuss that one thing that everybody knows but is so hard to put into words.
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R0B0G3N3S1S
Quantum Mechanic
Registered: 04/08/15
Posts: 330
Loc: Noosphere
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: How does one have enlightened experiences while meditating? [Re: R0B0G3N3S1S]
#21666975 - 05/11/15 07:39 PM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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The energy felt so good, the experience was similar to chi and dark lead in chinese texts, after searching it on the internet.
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One should of, but shouldn't of had to.
Because One Shouldn't of, but had to.
Pm me If you are trying to discuss that one thing that everybody knows but is so hard to put into words.
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Titus_Pullo
Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 461
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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Re: How does one have enlightened experiences while meditating? [Re: R0B0G3N3S1S]
#21670099 - 05/12/15 01:54 PM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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Meditation is a farce.
You're much better off sitting down and reading good literature than sitting down and doing nothing.
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Hobozen
Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 10,634
Loc: 
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Re: How does one have enlightened experiences while meditating? [Re: Titus_Pullo] 1
#21670608 - 05/12/15 03:52 PM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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There are studies that prove otherwise.
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falcon
Registered: 04/01/02
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Re: How does one have enlightened experiences while meditating? [Re: Titus_Pullo] 1
#21670646 - 05/12/15 03:59 PM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Titus_Pullo said:
Meditation is a farce.
You're much better off sitting down and reading good literature than sitting down and doing nothing.
I disagree, the act of taking an inventory of what is in the forefront of your thoughts by letting them arise as they will can be useful. This kind of meditation creates anchors for other information, something you can associate new ideas, facts, experiences with.
Why do you feel that all meditation is a farce?
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Sun King
Registered: 02/15/14
Posts: 4,069
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Re: How does one have enlightened experiences while meditating? [Re: Titus_Pullo]
#21671222 - 05/12/15 06:20 PM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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If you would rather sit on the toilet and read comic books that is your prerogative. That doesn't make meditation a farce.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: How does one have enlightened experiences while meditating? [Re: Sun King]
#21671421 - 05/12/15 06:55 PM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sun King said:
If you would rather sit on the toilet and read comic books that is your prerogative. That doesn't make meditation a farce.
I've had some enlightening experiences while on the toilet.
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Anxiety is what you make it.
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