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Idkleine
Stranger


Registered: 02/23/14
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Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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Grain spawn question
#21641998 - 05/05/15 10:37 PM (9 years, 15 days ago) |
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I was wondering how long is a reasonable time to let my jars of grain spawn sit around between pressure cooking and inoculation? I am using standard mouth quart jars with synthetic filter disks on top. organic rye berries and sterilizing in a A.A. 910 pressure cooker. inoculating from agar petri dishes. Growing pearl and phoenix oyster. using laminar flow hood and basic sterile procedures.
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Juiceh
Dabbing All Day



Registered: 09/25/12
Posts: 3,208
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Re: Grain spawn question [Re: Idkleine]
#21642330 - 05/05/15 11:53 PM (9 years, 15 days ago) |
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As long as your sterilization is complete, the jars should be fine for a long time if not indefinitely. The grains on top may dry out a bit. Even though it's not required, I cover my SFD'd lids with foil before pcing and it stays on until inoculation. This seems to help the jars retain the moisture better when they may sit for a while before inoculation. I've left blank jars uninoculated for months. They performed just fine when they were used.
Most people will recommend to use them as soon as they are cool enough after pcing. I don't think that's a bad idea either.
Edited by Juiceh (05/05/15 11:57 PM)
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Idkleine
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Re: Grain spawn question [Re: Juiceh]
#21642515 - 05/06/15 12:50 AM (9 years, 15 days ago) |
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Thx! If I could get away with a week I would be happy. I will cover them and keep them clean. I just needed someone else's opinion on it because I realized I am sterilizing 14 jars of grain, and that's a lot for me to use All at once right now. I have been doing 1 quart of grain spawn to one gallon of sterilized unsuplimented alder sawdust, and then transferring one of those to 30 pasteurized gallon bags of coffee grounds, alder sawdust, and gypsum. All in front of my flow hood. I have done this 3 times (90 bags) and haven't lost any yet.
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Humbled
Local Budtender




Registered: 01/19/08
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Re: Grain spawn question [Re: Idkleine]
#21642635 - 05/06/15 01:44 AM (9 years, 15 days ago) |
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Very nice ldkleine! Sounds like you have a good setup and routine going. I usually let the jars cool overnight and try to knock them up as soon as possible. On the other hand, as Juiceh was saying, if you properly PC'd your jars they shouldnt grow anything for quite a while.
I know what we call 'sterilized grain' isn't truly sterile. Just as canned foods will eventually go bad(and those are 'ultra sterilized'), I believe there is a good chance that some dormant endospore will eventually germinate. I could be wrong here ..... I've never really let jars sit for more than a week before inoculation.
-->To Juiceh, thanks for the info about month old jars. I'm going to give that a try with just a few jars and see how it works out.
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RogerSmith

Registered: 01/29/15
Posts: 365
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Re: Grain spawn question [Re: Humbled]
#21643176 - 05/06/15 07:25 AM (9 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Psilocelium said: On the other hand, as Juiceh was saying, if you properly PC'd your jars they shouldnt grow anything for quite a while.
I know what we call 'sterilized grain' isn't truly sterile. Just as canned foods will eventually go bad(and those are 'ultra sterilized'), I believe there is a good chance that some dormant endospore will eventually germinate.
Exactly what I wanted to point out. What we call sterilization isn't true sterilization. It will contaminate eventually.
I wouldn't hesitate using 3 months old jar. I probably wouldn't use jar older than 6 months.
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Idkleine
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Registered: 02/23/14
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Thats great news. Babysitting my pressure cooker takes up way too much time to be only filling it half way. I am running it almost every day, either with grain spawn jars, Agar media, or 2 sawdust filled unicorn bags, which is a huge pain in the ass, getting space between the sides and the bags with a bunch of jar lids. I need a better something something to create that gap, I just haven't figured out what yet. Anyhow its nice to know that I have a good chance of getting away with some time between sterilizing and inoculation. I will always use them as soon as I can of course just to eliminate any possible compromise:)
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knomadic_niki
A mile high



Registered: 06/30/14
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Re: Grain spawn question [Re: Idkleine]
#21648239 - 05/07/15 08:52 AM (9 years, 13 days ago) |
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i agree, up to a week is fine. done it myself plenty of times. if you live in a dry climate, leave foil over the lid or something so it doesn't dry out. otherwise, you're good. i wouldn't recommend going over a week.
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RogerSmith

Registered: 01/29/15
Posts: 365
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Have you ever had a problem using too old jar? Or have you seen old jar contaminate?
But this question depends on many things, type of grains, soaking before sterilization (to get spores to germinate so you can kill them without problem), lenght and temperature of sterilization, storage of sterile jars (fridge), etc.. I should run few test to see how this all works.
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knomadic_niki
A mile high



Registered: 06/30/14
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i have left "blank" grain spawn jars out for a month without getting contaminated. if you have contamination, you will see it/smell it within a week or so
-------------------- My trade list In search of sporeless oyster cultures
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Juiceh
Dabbing All Day



Registered: 09/25/12
Posts: 3,208
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Quote:
RogerSmith said: Have you ever had a problem using too old jar? Or have you seen old jar contaminate?
But this question depends on many things, type of grains, soaking before sterilization (to get spores to germinate so you can kill them without problem), lenght and temperature of sterilization, storage of sterile jars (fridge), etc.. I should run few test to see how this all works.
I use WBS, sometimes rye berries. Usually soak for 24hrs. Though I have slacked on a couple batches and let them soak up to 3 days. LoL! I try to only do 24hrs or less though. I think extended soaking makes the grains stink more when boiled and PCd, and even after PCing until consumed by mycelium. I pc my grains for a minimum of 90 minutes at 20psi nowadays, used to do 15psi for the same length of time. My last batch I let soak for 3 days. I should leave one of these jars on a shelf for a year to see what happens!
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MudaFuka
Poppin bottles



Registered: 12/14/13
Posts: 18,648
Loc: Canada
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Re: Grain spawn question [Re: Juiceh]
#21648804 - 05/07/15 11:28 AM (9 years, 13 days ago) |
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I never seem to have enough time to PC everything I need right when I need it. So whenever I find myself with a few spare hours. I will do a PC run. I quite frequently leave sterilised jars un-inoculated for weeks. It has never been a problem. I take the foil off right out of the PC.
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forrest



Registered: 11/16/12
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Loc: The Netherlands
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Re: Grain spawn question [Re: MudaFuka]
#21648870 - 05/07/15 11:49 AM (9 years, 13 days ago) |
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yeah, it feels great to have some sterile petri's or slants with agar in the fridge, ready to inoculate when you get a culture in your mailbox!
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MudaFuka
Poppin bottles



Registered: 12/14/13
Posts: 18,648
Loc: Canada
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Re: Grain spawn question [Re: forrest]
#21648969 - 05/07/15 12:17 PM (9 years, 13 days ago) |
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Yah. I try to keep 20 un-inoculated plates on hand at all times. Preparing them in advance also gives time for any condensation to clear up.
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OurNameIsLegion
Stranger

Registered: 11/28/14
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Re: Grain spawn question [Re: MudaFuka]
#21651691 - 05/08/15 01:27 AM (9 years, 13 days ago) |
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Good information. I've been keeping mine in the refrigerator until use. Sounds like that's not needed and could just be taking up space. Do you guys think that would have any benefit or disadvantage?
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MudaFuka
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Registered: 12/14/13
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They will dry out faster in the fridge. Fridges are also pretty dirty most of the time.
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OurNameIsLegion
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Re: Grain spawn question [Re: MudaFuka]
#21653414 - 05/08/15 01:50 PM (9 years, 12 days ago) |
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Gotcha. Should have clarified it's a mini fridge that's designated for the hobby. Still good to know that they dry out faster. Thanks
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PlantSeeker
Natures Grower


Registered: 05/02/15
Posts: 118
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Re: Grain spawn question [Re: forrest]
#21662091 - 05/10/15 05:22 PM (9 years, 10 days ago) |
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=) I need to make a habit out of that, by having media ready to go. I have blue oysters to get going, that I have been to busy to get around to working with.
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hamloaf
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Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 21,754
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Quote:
Idkleine said: Thats great news. Babysitting my pressure cooker takes up way too much time to be only filling it half way. I am running it almost every day, either with grain spawn jars, Agar media, or 2 sawdust filled unicorn bags, which is a huge pain in the ass, getting space between the sides and the bags with a bunch of jar lids. I need a better something something to create that gap, I just haven't figured out what yet. Anyhow its nice to know that I have a good chance of getting away with some time between sterilizing and inoculation. I will always use them as soon as I can of course just to eliminate any possible compromise:)
It's not necessary to place jar lid rings in between bags. Good practice, but not necessary. If you are going to skip the jar lid ring step though, and "cram" bags into the PC all you have to do is up your sterilization time about an hour. The solution to your being limited on how many unicorn bags you can sterilize at once is going to be to get more PC's. Bigger ones.
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Rosen_Rot
Learning



Registered: 12/06/14
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Loc: Goa
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Re: Grain spawn question [Re: hamloaf]
#21668736 - 05/12/15 06:57 AM (9 years, 8 days ago) |
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I would just like to point out that putting the jars in the PC is not sterilizing, in-fact it was RR that said the whole 90mins is actually an incomplete cycle of sterilization otherwise the grains would turn into mush.
The PC is used to lessen the amount of harmful bacteria leaving a window of opportunity for the mycelium to establish itself and take over
That being said I've left PCs cool down from a few hours (1-2) till about a day. I've read from other cultivators that you can leave jars in your PC up to a week or so without any repercussions.
For fridges I placed my jars in clean ziplock bags, put them in paper bags and store them in the fridge. I've had a couple of master jars in there for a week now, no contamination so far
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