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InvisiblePsychonautica
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #21646865 - 05/06/15 11:21 PM (9 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Mr. Alien said:
That's what i'm saying what we couldn't just release tons of that bacteria into the ocean instead of planting trees and have to wait them to grow (as a bigger tree produce more oxygen than a small one). Instead of that we cultivate cyanobacteria that grows faster and it could be cultivated in large scale.

After all 1/3 of the oxygen today was produced by that cyanobacterias.




That's a pretty great idea. We should be growing hemp too, not just for oxygen but because of how much raw materials they give out.

We have no business even cutting trees down, to be honest. Everything wood is used for can be replaced with hemp.

Lol we're a long, long ways away from a religion discussion, but we're also the only two left here, so I think this is just a Psychonautica and Alien Discussion thread now. hahahaha


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The chances of you even being born, Were forty million to one. There's two parts of the statistic And I want you to live through one
3/8/95 - 7/10/15 Rest In Paradise, Brother.
Sheekle said:
yeah, i said i was afraid of psychonautica

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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: Psychonautica]
    #21647007 - 05/06/15 11:56 PM (9 years, 14 days ago)


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InvisiblePsychonautica
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #21647024 - 05/07/15 12:00 AM (9 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Mr. Alien said:
Cyano bacteria producing liquid fuel.

http://www.environmentteam.com/2010/01/08/modified-cyanobacteria-converts-co2-in-to-liquid-fuel/

Back to topic.






You just posted the exact reason I can't stand Dawkins.


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The chances of you even being born, Were forty million to one. There's two parts of the statistic And I want you to live through one
3/8/95 - 7/10/15 Rest In Paradise, Brother.
Sheekle said:
yeah, i said i was afraid of psychonautica

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OfflineAchillita
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: Psychonautica]
    #21648048 - 05/07/15 07:54 AM (9 years, 13 days ago)

Duuuuuude, what if we are like thinking that we are thinking.. *epic bong rip*
BUt I actually like Neil's answer that it could be something we haven't even discovered yet.

But I think we should put a new question out(so we don't lose this thread). So I have a question for you guys, Do you think religion was important in the development of mankind and why?


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InvisiblePsychonautica
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: Achillita]
    #21648056 - 05/07/15 07:56 AM (9 years, 13 days ago)

Define important.

The fact that we'd be like 3000 years more advanced, and never would have gone through the dark ages with out it, means it played a pretty damn important part.

A shitty, fucked up, sad part, but an important part none the less.


--------------------
The chances of you even being born, Were forty million to one. There's two parts of the statistic And I want you to live through one
3/8/95 - 7/10/15 Rest In Paradise, Brother.
Sheekle said:
yeah, i said i was afraid of psychonautica

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OfflineAchillita
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: Psychonautica]
    #21648075 - 05/07/15 08:01 AM (9 years, 13 days ago)

Like do you think humans would be as advanced as they are today without religion? It's always been there but what if it wasn't? Would we still be who we are today?


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InvisiblePsychonautica
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: Achillita]
    #21648083 - 05/07/15 08:06 AM (9 years, 13 days ago)

If religion didn't exist, the dark ages wouldn't either.

We would be thousands of years more advanced, because technological advances are exponentially growing, not at a set rate. Just look at how much technology has been invented in the past ten years. Probably more advancements than have happened in 100 years previous.

No holy crusades, no religious genocides, Hitler wouldn't have happened, he'd have no reason to kill the Jews if there were no Jews. There would be extremely less persecution, there would have been no religious persecution of any kind. Etc. Etc.

It's not hard to realize how much more of a beautiful place the world would be without religion.


--------------------
The chances of you even being born, Were forty million to one. There's two parts of the statistic And I want you to live through one
3/8/95 - 7/10/15 Rest In Paradise, Brother.
Sheekle said:
yeah, i said i was afraid of psychonautica

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OfflineAchillita
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: Psychonautica]
    #21648130 - 05/07/15 08:22 AM (9 years, 13 days ago)

But there's also the chance without religion that the world wouldn't have made it that far. Religion was one of the reasons that empires could be formed. Religion was also the leading force in many conquests, and traveling to many places.

I mean religion has contributed as a whole, as it taught forms of morals that could be completely different than what we would value if there was no such thing. We could, however, value honor and pride above compassion in this world without religion. Values like that lead to fights much more often than letting it go.

Not to mention the shamans that lead most, if not all, healing in the past would have had a much slower start. Technology and ideas would be exchanged a lot less IMO. Not to mention the possibility of it taking education longer to take hold in a world without religion. Most religious buildings far in the past were the places of scholars. The muslims contributed much to math, as did many christian monks contribute to early science and medicine. As did buddhist temples. All these places were similiar to libraries for scholars.

Given the evidence, would humanity even have formed together in such strong bonds without religion?


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InvisiblePsychonautica
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: Achillita]
    #21648147 - 05/07/15 08:25 AM (9 years, 13 days ago)

Religion caused way more damage than it ever did good. For sure. They would have just developed straight to modern medicine and modern scientific ideas instead of being stifled by religious ideas.

People weren't brought together by religion, they were torn apart by it. In fact, religion is toxic to humans being together. Look at the USA. Religion is so toxic we had to make a law separating church and state.

About morals too, I don't see atheists running around like immoral scum now a days, so why would it be any different back then?


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The chances of you even being born, Were forty million to one. There's two parts of the statistic And I want you to live through one
3/8/95 - 7/10/15 Rest In Paradise, Brother.
Sheekle said:
yeah, i said i was afraid of psychonautica

Edited by Psychonautica (05/07/15 08:26 AM)

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OfflineAchillita
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: Psychonautica]
    #21648204 - 05/07/15 08:41 AM (9 years, 13 days ago)

Because a lot of religion was the basis of morals. The romans layed that foundation in the west, that you must not kill and follow these certai rules. But if you look at other cultures the code of morals is COMEPLETELY different. In many native american tribes, getting revenge was very common. If a man murdered another, the victims family could kill the murderer themselves. If they stole, get it back and take something, ect ect.

I mean in hawaiian cultures, the whole manly persona focussed on war and killing another man. As in aztec and mayan, it was to go to war to get spplies and capture sacrifices. Without this "meaning" to war or killing, the foundation of morals could possibly be completely different. The morals are pretty similar all across the world thanks to christianities spreading.

I mean religion is one of the things that pushed many people to colonize the "New world" and spread it. It's one of the things that caused many conquests and many wars. And thats not a bad thing. It's the thing that spread ideologies and technology so far on this globe. Do you really think that without religion, much of europe's soldiers would have gone to the middle east and collected so much information on math and science? It's one of the things that brought europe out of the dark age.

Religion drove us to where we are morally today. Without religion we could have been a much harsher society, or maybe even more loving. It really came down to which culture was more "loved". Maybe the japanese warrior culture would be more common through out the world and you could be killed because you looked at a samurai the wrong way.


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InvisiblePsychonautica
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: Achillita]
    #21648214 - 05/07/15 08:44 AM (9 years, 13 days ago)

Not even close. The were looking for spices in India, and landed on the new world. It had nothing to do with religion. They brought religion with them, to use as a method of controlling people that's all.

Are you playing Devils advocate here, or are these actually your beliefs?

Because religion was also responsible for the entire genocide of nations. The murder of scientists, and the covering up of scientific advances.

Giving us morals, which we would have had our own forms of anyways, doesn't out weigh it.

The Bible also says you can own slaves. Not ever moral of today is from religion. In fact, the morals of not owning another man directly conflict with the morals of the Bible.

Edited by Psychonautica (05/07/15 08:47 AM)

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OfflineAchillita
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: Psychonautica]
    #21648222 - 05/07/15 08:47 AM (9 years, 13 days ago)

The reason they discovered it yes, was by accident. But the reason they colonized was not so much. For many people it wouldn't have been such a lucrative deal.


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InvisiblePsychonautica
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: Achillita]
    #21648228 - 05/07/15 08:49 AM (9 years, 13 days ago)

They probably would have been friends with the Indians, and let them keep their land without their religion telling them that they owned the right to the land and needed to kill off the dirty pagan Indians and steal it from them.

What's your point? I think we'd be better off if we didn't colonize the Americas. The only real difference is we wouldn't be white.


--------------------
The chances of you even being born, Were forty million to one. There's two parts of the statistic And I want you to live through one
3/8/95 - 7/10/15 Rest In Paradise, Brother.
Sheekle said:
yeah, i said i was afraid of psychonautica

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OfflineAchillita
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: Psychonautica]
    #21648275 - 05/07/15 09:04 AM (9 years, 13 days ago)

Not to mention, culture land wars and techniques. 90% of natve americans were wiped out with disease. And taking out religion doesn't turn monsters into men. They just can't hide behind that they are doing this for god.

The thing is without religion, the morals of the world could be completely different than they are today. We got where we were through the transition of religious beliefs. The pagan europeans for example had a different set of morals than the roman church.

My point is every belief on what is right and wrong has been laid down from someone before you. And that was layed down by whatever religion your culture adhered to. In certain parts of africa it was uncommon for certain tribes to slaughter whole freaking villages for the pillage. And in native america the attitude for killing women and children were non existant. The US calvary would sometimes rape native women that survived attacks, because they thought they were lesser.

I think racism wouldn't have disappeared if religion never existed. Monsters would still exist among men.


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InvisiblePsychonautica
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Posts: 10,854
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: Achillita]
    #21648283 - 05/07/15 09:07 AM (9 years, 13 days ago)

I can see your reasoning, but I still disagree.

Maybe we would have found scientific reasoning for morals, but I feel like the world would still be a better place.

But you're right religion keeps some batshit people sane and keeps them from killing loads of people. But it also causes people to kill each other, because they drew a picture of your prophet.


--------------------
The chances of you even being born, Were forty million to one. There's two parts of the statistic And I want you to live through one
3/8/95 - 7/10/15 Rest In Paradise, Brother.
Sheekle said:
yeah, i said i was afraid of psychonautica

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OfflineAchillita
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: Psychonautica]
    #21648328 - 05/07/15 09:17 AM (9 years, 13 days ago)

Well yes but I think you're thinking too much in modern times. Imagine a world that wasn't that caring of these grotesque acts. And where if someone was different than you in many places, you could outright kill someone.

But my original question was would we be where we are today. Without the religion, knowledge would not have spread as fast. At least not at first. The only places where knowledge could be accessed publicly 1000 years ago (before the dark age) was in monasteries held by christian monks. Or in many mosques would contain knowledgeable books about math and science. or in the Buddhist monasteries, where there would be the countless knowledge of the lands and of travelers.

Most monasteries far back in time, where places full of scholars. Many monks were very smart and dedicated much time to learning, other than the time they were helping the homeless or the poor. Without religion, what would have pushed small tribes or villages into creating these mass towns where people may have nothing in common but conflict. Many times religion had held these cities together.


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InvisiblePsychonautica
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Posts: 10,854
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: Achillita]
    #21648341 - 05/07/15 09:22 AM (9 years, 13 days ago)

So the monasteries would still exist, they just wouldn't be tied to religion.

It's hard to imagine what would have came instead of religion, to hold together morals and what not, but I don't think that just because religion didn't exist, that everyone would be running around killing  and raping  and murdering people, though.


--------------------
The chances of you even being born, Were forty million to one. There's two parts of the statistic And I want you to live through one
3/8/95 - 7/10/15 Rest In Paradise, Brother.
Sheekle said:
yeah, i said i was afraid of psychonautica

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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: Psychonautica]
    #21648353 - 05/07/15 09:28 AM (9 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Psychonautica said:
Quote:

Mr. Alien said:
Cyano bacteria producing liquid fuel.

http://www.environmentteam.com/2010/01/08/modified-cyanobacteria-converts-co2-in-to-liquid-fuel/

Back to topic.






You just posted the exact reason I can't stand Dawkins.




They are talking about the difficult concept consciousness is. Not that atoms have consciousness whatever we understand as consciousness today. I'm pretty sure if you ask Neil and Lawrence Krauss about atoms having consciousness they won't believe that.

Now let me read what you guys said above.

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InvisiblePsychonautica
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #21648364 - 05/07/15 09:31 AM (9 years, 13 days ago)

I know that. I just don't like the way Richard Dawkins laughs off things that are improbable. Improbable isn't impossible.

We had a subject change when you were gone, and this one is really really hard to imagine. Well I did I didn't think it was hard to imagine but Achillita made some very good points.

It's fun to think about though.


--------------------
The chances of you even being born, Were forty million to one. There's two parts of the statistic And I want you to live through one
3/8/95 - 7/10/15 Rest In Paradise, Brother.
Sheekle said:
yeah, i said i was afraid of psychonautica

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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #21648426 - 05/07/15 09:47 AM (9 years, 13 days ago)

Creationism is not synonymous with young earth creationism biblical  literalism .

You can be a creationist and still believe in an ancient earth, evolution and the Big Bang.


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Everything I post is fiction.

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