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Invisiblepassenger
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Registered: 11/05/08
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so whats changed or is outdated these days?
    #21645329 - 05/06/15 06:25 PM (9 years, 14 days ago)

i have stepped back in for a bit but have not had a ton of luck as of late as ive lost 3 out of 4 of my last tubs.  so i was just wondering if there are some flaws in my methods that you guys think i should change or leave out all together?

i use 5 qrts of spawn to:

1 brick of coir
1.5 qrts of horse manure
1 qrt of verm
1 cup of gypsum
1 qrt of spent coffeee grounds

how i pasteurize

i bring 4.5 qrts of water to 170 degrees and add the ingredients.  after its all mixed up well i put the lid on the pot & let it sit for 5 mins with the heat on med/high.  after the five mins i remove from heat & let sit over night  (i believe this is large dose's method)

spawning

the next day i break up the 5 qrts of spawn and dump that & the pot of the substrate into a clean, large container & mix it all together well.  i then scoop that into a trash bagged lined mono tub and level it all out.  cover the holes with tape and let it sit undisturbed for 10 days.  after ten days i remove the tub from the closet and open up the holes slightly and soak up all the water that has collected on top with a clean paper towel and set next to a window for light.  i rarely open the lid to check on it as ive always used the "set it & forget it" way of thinking in the past. 

but recently, days later ive looked at them & noticed alot of them over taken by mold.  the room they are kept in is a round 70


any thought or suggestions would be greatly appreciated

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InvisibleMunchauzen
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Re: so whats changed or is outdated these days? [Re: passenger]
    #21645354 - 05/06/15 06:31 PM (9 years, 14 days ago)

my guess is too much coffee. makes the substrate "hot" pH -wise. I only use a tablespoon or so for a mono.

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Invisiblefunkyfish77
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Re: so whats changed or is outdated these days? [Re: Munchauzen]
    #21645390 - 05/06/15 06:40 PM (9 years, 14 days ago)

I use a 1 cup of coffee in 3 quarts of bulk .
Does the pot you use to pasteurize in seal air tite ?

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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Registered: 03/31/14
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Re: so whats changed or is outdated these days? [Re: passenger]
    #21645393 - 05/06/15 06:41 PM (9 years, 14 days ago)

I'm by no means an expert but I think your pasteurization tek isn't up to par.  Here's a more up to date one.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17246844

Also I've heard that if it contaminates before your first flush it's almost always your spawn but this may only be for coir based substrates and not poo.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley

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Invisiblepassenger
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Posts: 337
Re: so whats changed or is outdated these days? [Re: funkyfish77]
    #21645422 - 05/06/15 06:46 PM (9 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

funkyfish77 said:
I use a 1 cup of coffee in 3 quarts of bulk .
Does the pot you use to pasteurize in seal air tite ?




no. its an old pressure cooker so it vents out the top hole

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Invisiblepassenger
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Re: so whats changed or is outdated these days? [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #21645468 - 05/06/15 06:55 PM (9 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
I'm by no means an expert but I think your pasteurization tek isn't up to par.  Here's a more up to date one.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17246844

Also I've heard that if it contaminates before your first flush it's almost always your spawn but this may only be for coir based substrates and not poo.




pasteurizing in bags or jars is for the birds man.  i used to do that years ago & it was a mess.  ive collected data doing it the way i descibed and it held a steady temp above 160 for a few hours.

i also don't think my spawn is bad.  i do grain to grain transfer and all of the jars i use are as white as the driven snow. when i break them i always smell them and they always smell like mushrooms

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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: so whats changed or is outdated these days? [Re: passenger]
    #21645496 - 05/06/15 07:02 PM (9 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

i bring 4.5 qrts of water to 170 degrees and add the ingredients.  after its all mixed up well i put the lid on the pot & let it sit for 5 mins with the heat on med/high.  after the five mins i remove from heat & let sit over night  (i believe this is large dose's method)




170 F is pretty hot, borderline partial sterilization. I would suggest to use jars in a water bath instead. Typically I aim for 145-160F for 60-70min. Most molds including the dreaded trich are killed at temps of 130F sustained for 30 min. So to do 170 for longer than 90 min is really pushing it in terms of partial sterilization.

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Invisiblepassenger
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Re: so whats changed or is outdated these days? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21645554 - 05/06/15 07:13 PM (9 years, 14 days ago)


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: so whats changed or is outdated these days? [Re: passenger]
    #21645601 - 05/06/15 07:22 PM (9 years, 14 days ago)

Its not so much that its outdated/useless but I do things different myself. If we could verify that your spawn was not the problem (and often it is) I would suspect your coffee is the issue as it requires very careful attention to detail. Given a high enough spawn ratio I am sure it could work consistently but IME coffee can be a tricky beast. You are using 5 quarts of spawn to that recipe which is a pretty low spawn ratio given the presence of coffee.

I suggest that you do two things. First use more spawn. Second, omit the coffee. Coir is not necessarily foolproof, but provided its quality is fairly consistent and is not full of grains or leaves or other trich magnets (which it can be, I have a thread on that somewhere) its fairly forgiving from a temps standpoint (plain coir can actually be sterilized in a PC). If you continue to have mold issues then its time to start checking other vectors like filters, inoculate and expansion methods.

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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: so whats changed or is outdated these days? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21646112 - 05/06/15 08:51 PM (9 years, 14 days ago)

What Pasty said!!

How do you know it isnt your spawn? The mold could very well be hiding in your spawn, do you clean your cultures on agar first? Is your sterile tek up to par?

Ive been through (still get) mold problems. I always review my innoculant and G2G process because for me, thats when its most likeky to get in


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Invisiblepassenger
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Re: so whats changed or is outdated these days? [Re: mushpunx]
    #21647767 - 05/07/15 05:57 AM (9 years, 14 days ago)

all transfers are done in front of a flow hood.  no i do not clean them first on agar.  as i mentioned above, the spawn all has a wonderful smell to it before i use it.

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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Re: so whats changed or is outdated these days? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21648009 - 05/07/15 07:40 AM (9 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Its not so much that its outdated/useless but I do things different myself. If we could verify that your spawn was not the problem (and often it is) I would suspect your coffee is the issue as it requires very careful attention to detail. Given a high enough spawn ratio I am sure it could work consistently but IME coffee can be a tricky beast. You are using 5 quarts of spawn to that recipe which is a pretty low spawn ratio given the presence of coffee.

I suggest that you do two things. First use more spawn. Second, omit the coffee. Coir is not necessarily foolproof, but provided its quality is fairly consistent and is not full of grains or leaves or other trich magnets (which it can be, I have a thread on that somewhere) its fairly forgiving from a temps standpoint (plain coir can actually be sterilized in a PC). If you continue to have mold issues then its time to start checking other vectors like filters, inoculate and expansion methods.




He's using poo too.  I bucket tek coir but it's my understanding poo needs proper pasturization.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley

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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: so whats changed or is outdated these days? [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #21648039 - 05/07/15 07:50 AM (9 years, 13 days ago)

Coirverm is the only thing safe to bucket. Poo also needs proper attention to detail but is not quite the trich magnet coffee is. But yes I think he needs to up his spawn ratios to something like 1:2 if he is gonna use a sub like that. Right now he is probablysitting around 1:3.

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Invisiblepassenger
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Re: so whats changed or is outdated these days? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21648815 - 05/07/15 11:31 AM (9 years, 13 days ago)

isnt a brick of coir around 10 qrts?

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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: so whats changed or is outdated these days? [Re: passenger]
    #21648905 - 05/07/15 11:56 AM (9 years, 13 days ago)

Yes. Add the quart of verm the 1.5 quarts of hpoo a cup of gypsum and a quart of coffee grounds and you have a ball park of 14 quarts of sub. Thats just a touch above 1:3. Higher spawn ratios are far safer with subs containing poo and coffee as you want the spawn run to go as fast as possible.  I would prefer to use 7-8 quarts spawn to a mix like that and have the spawn run done in 5-6 days.

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Invisiblepassenger
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Re: so whats changed or is outdated these days? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21651999 - 05/08/15 05:39 AM (9 years, 13 days ago)

ok.  ill try 1 brick of coir, 1 qrt of verm, 1 cp of gypsum and a little bit of coffee & see how that turns out leaving the manure out.

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Invisiblepassenger
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Re: so whats changed or is outdated these days? [Re: passenger]
    #21701252 - 05/20/15 06:05 AM (9 years, 1 day ago)

I mixed up a new batch of sub on the 14th or exactly what I stated above and made my pasteurization temp lower as well.  checked on it this morning & it all looks pretty well colonized, id say 100%.  that's at 6 days,  should I leave it in there longer and take it out & introduce it to trigger mechanisms now???  I used to wait with my last recipe until around 10 days.

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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: so whats changed or is outdated these days? [Re: passenger]
    #21701328 - 05/20/15 06:46 AM (9 years, 23 hours ago)

There is no set amount of time, if its fully colonized its ready to introduce fruiting coditions.

Sometimes if it wasnt mixed very thouroughly, the top will colonize faster than the bottom and leave patches, so if I didnt use a clear tub/clear liner I might give it an extra day or two but thats just the way I do it.

6 days isnt uncommon for colonization its just fast!


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