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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Mushrooms and Devolution
#2164226 - 12/06/03 12:45 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Due to the enormous number of posts filled with egregious factual errors, weak or non-existent logic, and just plain tripe; I am forced to draw one of the following conclusions: People drawn to mushrooms are (in general): 1. intellectually inferior. 2. lazy, sloppy and undisciplined. 3. representative of a general downward slope. 4. were OK once, but are now fucked up by drug abuse. 5. escape artists and dreamers with no real life. Note: this post does not refer to you, but the other guy.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Droz
Love of Life


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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2164254 - 12/06/03 12:58 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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1. Swami always holding his intellect much higher then others. 2. Lazy, sloppy and undisciplined. 3. Reminds me of Tool. 4. Possibility. 5. Choices.
-------------------- Evolution of Time.
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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...


Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2164268 - 12/06/03 01:08 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Option # 6. I AM SIR TOKES ALOT!
No, seriously *I* am Spartacus.
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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My guess is that some do too much mushrooms and barely any work sober, working on the road to higher consciousness.... if I get lazy, I usually don't post, as my point will not be made clear enough.
Mushrooms and marijuana are tools, momentarily turbo boosts... after you run out of energy in the race, you can't just keep hitting the turbo button and expect for you to win or even move... Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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sirreal
devoid
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2164332 - 12/06/03 01:41 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
2. lazy, sloppy and undisciplined.
3. representative of a general downward slope.
4. were OK once, but are now fucked up by drug abuse.
5. escape artists and dreamers with no real life.
You just described a whole lot of people in the general populace.
I think people that are drawn to shrooms are basically like everyone else.
-------------------- I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest ----------- I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: sirreal]
#2164345 - 12/06/03 01:50 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think people that are drawn to shrooms are basically like everyone else.
Probably, yet the claim is that new ways of thinking and being are shown to the entheogenic traveller. I see NO outward manifestation of such change, evolutionary or otherwise.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Snooganator
SNOOTCH TO THENOOTCH!
Registered: 12/06/03
Posts: 7
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: sirreal]
#2164348 - 12/06/03 01:52 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I agree with Sirreal.
Edited by Snooganator (12/06/03 01:53 PM)
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2164352 - 12/06/03 01:55 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said: Probably, yet the claim is that new ways of thinking and being are shown to the entheogenic traveller. I see NO outward manifestation of such change, evolutionary or otherwise.
Well, there are some, no doubt. The choice few. I think this comes down to like the lazy thing you mentioned, or once the drug wears off, they find themselves letting themselves sink right back into their normal mindset... change isn't easy, and this makes people give up.
Fight for the right!  Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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sirreal
devoid
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2164360 - 12/06/03 02:00 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
yet the claim is that new ways of thinking and being are shown to the entheogenic traveller. I see NO outward manifestation of such change, evolutionary or otherwise.
Right idea in the wrong minds, maybe?
When you take ignorant people and give them mind-altering substances you do not get intelligence. You get wierdness, and altered ignorance.
Ignorant people on shrooms= mind altered ignorance.
***I am not calling anyone ignorant***
-------------------- I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest ----------- I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!
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Anonymous
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I belive that people drawn to mushrooms or at least growing mushrooms are 1. do it them selfers. (so not lazy) 2. scientists that dont fit into the going to school thing. 3. methodical 4. obsesive compolsive (washing hands 20 times a day) 5. Hey at least mushrooms isnt crack or dope. 6. I see a downward slope being the people using chemicals not just drugs but chems in general
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Anonymous
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: ]
#2164393 - 12/06/03 02:12 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Take a person that is normaly maybe not a intelectual person and give them mushrooms you get a person having a good time. Take a person that thinks of things other than whats in there ordinary world and give the mushrooms I think you get an expanded perception into a lot of things. I cant spell nor do I have a good comand of the english languge. So You could classify me as you will.
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: ]
#2164509 - 12/06/03 03:12 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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some people have a harder time than others understanding the change in perspective that entheogens (can) cause. some people ignore it. some explore it. exploration of conciousness will lead to some sort of discovery, some sort of growth. and when this begins to gather momentum and affect a mass scale, we'll have moved up to a new reality.
-------------------- "...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Viaggio]
#2164746 - 12/06/03 04:49 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I guess millions of trippers in the 60s was not a "mass scale".
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2164802 - 12/06/03 05:06 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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"I guess millions of trippers in the 60s was not a 'mass scale'."
that was only 4 decades ago. the 60s may have been some sort of spike in our developement, but to bring us to a new reality? that's not the mass scale i had in mind...more like billions. so if the momentum continues, then it's mostly a matter of time.
-------------------- "...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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Jellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2164835 - 12/06/03 05:19 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I guess millions of trippers in the 60s was not a "mass scale". Yeah, there sure wasn't much change in the sixties.
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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mr crisper
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Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 928
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2164954 - 12/06/03 06:35 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
People drawn to mushrooms are (in general):
1. intellectually inferior.
2. lazy, sloppy and undisciplined.
3. representative of a general downward slope.
4. were OK once, but are now fucked up by drug abuse.
5. escape artists and dreamers with no real life.
which category are you in, swami?
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trendal
Jâ™


Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2164956 - 12/06/03 06:36 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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*winces*
What's with the sweeping generalization, Swami?
Aldous Huxley? Tim Leary?
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: mr crisper]
#2164957 - 12/06/03 06:37 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I am in 2, 4 & 5.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Jellric]
#2164964 - 12/06/03 06:41 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah, there sure wasn't much change in the sixties.
A temporary change, but where did it lead on an evolutionary / societal level?
Here we are again in Iraq losing American lives as well as Iraqi citizens, pouring in billions of dollars better spent on constructive endeavors, with no end in sight. Looks like Vietnam all over again to me.
What about the drug war? Worse than ever. Corporate fraud? An all time high. On and on.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: trendal]
#2164978 - 12/06/03 06:52 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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What's with the sweeping generalization, Swami?
I could give hundreds of examples, but don't have the time.
My nonsensemeter has been pegged off the scale here lately. I am not talking humor, but beliefs in fantastical things with no foundation.
People making posts without even reading them over once to see if they are coherent, nor even doing basic research on the subject matter.
Increased awareness is NOT congruent with sloppy thinking and presentation. Meditation is not a part time thing, but an integral part of the traveller's life.
--------------------
The proof is in the pudding.
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angryjslice
now with 20%more anger



Registered: 10/29/03
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2164982 - 12/06/03 06:54 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said: Yeah, there sure wasn't much change in the sixties.
A temporary change, but where did it lead on an evolutionary / societal level?
Here we are again in Iraq losing American lives as well as Iraqi citizens, pouring in billions of dollars better spent on constructive endeavors, with no end in sight. Looks like Vietnam all over again to me.
What about the drug war? Worse than ever. Corporate fraud? An all time high. On and on.
60's was a revolution in the way people thought, really the turning point in our exponential growth in the acceptance of things, and questioning old belief systems. definetly was the sexual revolution. turn on your television, garuntee you'll see a very sexual situation within a few minutes. this kind of mass blasting of stuff once unheard of all has roots in the movement of the 60's, of accepting what we sexually, and not being ashamed of it as so many religions would love us to be.
thats just one example. i think a major step in our evolution occured because people realised that the moral structure they used to live in was really holding them back. you cant evolve if you refuse to change.
id like to see some studies on the primates that they teach to read and write. give them doses of hallucinogens, see what the write. i imagine itd just be fear though, unfortanatly its going to take quite a bit to evolve beyond fear. especially at this rate with the government keeping us in a fearfull state constantly. how many locks are on your door?
we'll see another movement in our lifetime. i just gotta think of something good. hehe.
listen to me babble, keystone really makes me talky...damn
~JSlice~
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Frog
Warrior


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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2165109 - 12/06/03 07:51 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said: Due to the enormous number of posts filled with egregious factual errors, weak or non-existent logic, and just plain tripe; I am forced to draw one of the following conclusions:
People drawn to mushrooms are (in general):
1. intellectually inferior.
2. lazy, sloppy and undisciplined.
3. representative of a general downward slope.
4. were OK once, but are now fucked up by drug abuse.
5. escape artists and dreamers with no real life.
Note: this post does not refer to you, but the other guy.
Well, I know you weren't talking about me because I don't do mushrooms. Whew!
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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ergot
MydriasicVisionary
Registered: 09/25/03
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Frog]
#2165213 - 12/06/03 08:28 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah, compare the 50s to the 60s and the American view on practically everything, and you'll see extremely drastic differences and more open-mindedness.
-------------------- "Remain a learner, never become a knower." - Osho
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HagbardCeline
Student-Teacher-Student-Teacher


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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2165234 - 12/06/03 08:38 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
nor even doing basic research on the subject matter.
Does this mean you now accept my definition of research? I will find the thread if you don't remember. To the subject matter at hand though. I agree that it seems many on here blindly follow some non-sensical ideas, while they lambaste others. But as was said before, this is sentiment shared by many who never try mind altering substances. I think that it may be misguided to believe that mushrooms instill any kind of enlightment, or progessive change in thinking. When I had my ego loss experience, I fealt as if the whole world had been revealed to me, and it all made sense. I thought that my life would take on a new exuberance. But when I woke the next day, all the ideas seemed to escape me, and I was back to the same old habits. So either these ideas are only known while under the influence, or the drugs trick our perception to believing that we have discovered a revolutionary way of thinking. As for the logical fallicies, it think this has much to do with what the person wants. If someone believes something, it is hard for them to accept the unsoundness of their ideas. Edit - It wasn't actually my defintion though.
-------------------- I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine
Edited by HagbardCeline (12/06/03 08:41 PM)
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Jellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2165253 - 12/06/03 08:48 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
A temporary change, but where did it lead on an evolutionary / societal l evel?
Here we are again in Iraq losing American lives as well as Iraqi citizens, pouring in billions of dollars better spent on constructive endeavors, with no end in sight. Looks like Vietnam all over again to me.
What about the drug war? Worse than ever. Corporate fraud? An all time high. On and on
True, but you can't blame that on the sixties generation. They tried; the fact is they were outnumbered by millions of knuckle-dragging citizens dealing a death blow to many of their societal changes. Yet many societal changes survived. We have a more tolerant, open society than before. I credit much of that change to the mind expansion of the sixties.
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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trendal
Jâ™


Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2165321 - 12/06/03 09:12 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Increased awareness is NOT congruent with sloppy thinking and presentation.
I entirely agree with you here
--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Jellric]
#2165342 - 12/06/03 09:21 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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True, but you can't blame that on the sixties generation. I did not blame that generation; only pointed out that massive psychedelic usage did not lead to any long-term change.
We have a more tolerant, open society than before. Record numbers of people in prison per capita is not indicative of greater tolerance.
The civil rights movement was well underway before Tim Leary and company made their presence known. MLK, JFK and other powerful transformers were not known to be into mind-expanding drugs.
--------------------
The proof is in the pudding.
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2165356 - 12/06/03 09:30 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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"Record numbers of people in prison per capita is not indicative of greater tolerance." c'mon...that is not a decent response. greater tolerance in new ideas is what was obviously meant.
-------------------- "...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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Frog
Warrior


Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
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Quote:
When I had my ego loss experience, I fealt as if the whole world had been revealed to me, and it all made sense. I thought that my life would take on a new exuberance.
But when I woke the next day, all the ideas seemed to escape me, and I was back to the same old habits.
So either these ideas are only known while under the influence, or the drugs trick our perception to believing that we have discovered a revolutionary way of thinking.
I have had this happen, too. Why not write the ideas down while having them, and then at least the next day, you still have them, on paper, so that you don't forget them?
Also, is it laziness that we don't put our ideas into effect? Or is it really just drugs or whatever?
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Viaggio]
#2165406 - 12/06/03 10:01 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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greater tolerance in new ideas is what was obviously meant.
Can you be a little more vague?
There was massive war protest in the 60s. In the last few years there was very little public protest of the war. It became practically un-American to even voice your opinion. I have an advantage over many of the younger ones here in having seen the decades-long downward spiral toward increased facism first-hand. (BTW - I served my country honorably in the Vietnam Era.)
--------------------
The proof is in the pudding.
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!


Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2165408 - 12/06/03 10:02 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
MLK, JFK and other powerful transformers were not known to be into mind-expanding drugs.
Actually, I've heard some speculation that says otherwise regarding JFK.
--------------------
  "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer

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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: silversoul7]
#2165417 - 12/06/03 10:07 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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"Can you be a little more vague?"
culture is much more diverse and continues to be. remember when diversity was less tolerated? most of our toleration has grown into acceptance. and this growth is just a piece of society's evolution.
-------------------- "...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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Jellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2165433 - 12/06/03 10:12 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I did not blame that generation; only pointed out that massive psychedelic usage did not lead to any long-term change. Try making drug testing mandatory for employees in Silicon valley. Innovation in the computer industry will come to a grinding halt. Does innovation in computer technology in our lives represent "long-term change"? The civil rights movement was well underway before Tim Leary and company made their presence known. It only exploded when many people began taking mind-exanding drugs. MLK, JFK and other powerful transformers were not known to be into mind-expanding drugs. No, but their supporters sure were! You can't make changes from above without support from below.
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Viaggio]
#2165440 - 12/06/03 10:16 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Remember when diversity was less tolerated?
Homosexuality is now more tolerated, but that is due to strong political unity sparked by AIDs and hate crimes. It had NOTHING to do with LSD, et al.
While opportunities for blacks and hispanics has increased, once again due mostly to political clout, I have personally noticed an upsurge in the racial divide in some arenas.
There is no social marker that shows that increased promiscuity and visual sexaul display has been beneficial to society (frat boys on spring break notwithstanding ) Teen pregnancy, abortion, and STDs are at near record-high levels.
--------------------
The proof is in the pudding.
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Zero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2165443 - 12/06/03 10:17 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Riddlez?
is swami trying to counter act the devolution that he preposes is caused by people who seem to take mushrooms and claim evolution? If he is not, would that swami, still be a swami of the mushroom community?
-------------------- What?
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trendal
Jâ™


Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2165445 - 12/06/03 10:20 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I did not blame that generation; only pointed out that massive psychedelic usage did not lead to any long-term change.
How can you say or think that such a large-scale and long-term (in human scale) event hasn't had an effect? Or continues to have an effect?
The "psychedelic revolution" had a lasting effect, like everything else in history. A butterfly flaps its wings in Africa...and a hurrican hits the East Coast. Even the smallest parts have a lasting effect.
--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: trendal]
#2165491 - 12/06/03 10:48 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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"Homosexuality is now more tolerated, but that is due to strong political unity sparked by AIDs and hate crimes. It had NOTHING to do with LSD, et al..." what does strong political unity mean? firstly, homosexuality is near acceptance due to open and opened minds. secondly, racial issues in society is in continual repair...like evolution, it is something that occurs gradually (but by diversity, i was actually weffering to ideas and perspectives). true, there is no direct correlation of LSD and acceptance of gays, but the psychadelic revolution is very much responsible for new perspectives. we can alter our conciousness for a reason...a change of perspective. and i am a firm believer that this is part of our next step in evolution.
-------------------- "...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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DJHenyo
HankBus2004
Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 4
Loc: NY
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2165499 - 12/06/03 10:54 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I totally agree with Swami in that there seems to be a very large percentage of incoherent babblers on this forum. This percentage does appear to be larger than the general populace of developed countries (canada notwithstanding).
I have done shrooms once and tried other drugs on limited occasions. I think the reason for most of the posting here being rather hard to follow and generally shallow is not the use of shrooms but rather other drugs. After trying marijuana the few times I have my memory has never been the same. I could tell a slight difference after the very first time. The same goes for alcohol, albeit to a far lesser extent. I am also under the impression that the majority of memebers on this forum were possesing a very low comprehension of proper english to begin with. The drugs may add to the problem, but they are not the cause.
The real problem that has lead to Swami obviously being annoyed with the ridiculous number of inane posters here is that generally the people getting into this stuff are affected by drug use in general, not that of shrooms.
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2165513 - 12/06/03 10:59 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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"...there seems to be a very large percentage of incoherent babblers on this forum...the majority of memebers on this forum were possesing a very low comprehension of proper english to begin with..."
uh, won't argue with ya  but like i said before...some people have a harder time than others understanding the change in perspective that entheogens (can) cause. some people ignore it. some explore it. exploration of conciousness will lead to some sort of discovery, some sort of growth.
-------------------- "...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Jellric]
#2165662 - 12/07/03 12:40 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Does innovation in computer technology in our lives represent "long-term change"?
Naturally it does, but where are your references? I lived and worked in Silicon Valley for 18 years and was totally drug free during that era while making significant contributions.
There were no serious drugs at Bell Labs when the transistor was developed nor television nor radio nor the car nor airplane. Yet suddenly drugs ARE NECESSARY for advanced thinking and creating? Please show your data to back up your hypothesis.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: trendal]
#2165669 - 12/07/03 12:44 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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The "psychedelic revolution" had a lasting effect, like everything else in history. So what? Yes everything has an effect. Point to the relevant advances in society instead of making wide-sweeping and useless statements.
A butterfly flaps its wings in Africa...and a hurrican hits the East Coast. Even the smallest parts have a lasting effect. *Yawn* This was an allegory (and NOT A FACT!) for chaos theory. A million butterflies can flap their wings in Africa, but without proper moisture content and a high and low pressure system colliding there are no hurricanes. Kill all the cute little flutterbyes and hurricanes would still occur.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Viaggio]
#2165676 - 12/07/03 12:49 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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homosexuality is near acceptance due to open and opened minds
Study a little history. Funding for AIDS far outweighs that for breast cancer, yet breast cancer kills way more Americans than AIDS, but middle-aged women are disparate entities and do not have a unified voice on that issue. However Gays united in the 1980s to have a major political voice and politicians changed laws due to enormous fiscal and voting pressure, not because they took entheogens and opened their hearts.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Viaggio]
#2165682 - 12/07/03 12:52 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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exploration of conciousness will lead to some sort of discovery, some sort of growth.
This sort of statement is always problematical for me as it says nothing. Please point to some specific issues, rather than making some vague sweeping speculation, to back up your point.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Anonymous
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2165698 - 12/07/03 12:59 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Looks like Vietnam all over again to me.
Then the mass media has done a job on you. For shame, I thought you could out-think them.
I could give hundreds of examples, but don't have the time.
My nonsensemeter has been pegged off the scale here lately. I am not talking humor, but beliefs in fantastical things with no foundation.
People making posts without even reading them over once to see if they are coherent, nor even doing basic research on the subject matter.
Increased awareness is NOT congruent with sloppy thinking and presentation. Meditation is not a part time thing, but an integral part of the traveller's life.
I noticed the same thing. Many of the members that used to post here are no longer with us. We lost our bonafide PhD plus many others with whom it was a delight to discuss things.
I am not maligning anyone that currently posts here but this forum, in general, rarely holds my attention anymore. I post far more often in OTD. There is a reason for that.
The Shroomery, also in general, has changed since I came here. Little by little not only has my attention waned but so has that of many intelligent thinkers unless they are mycology addicts. Hell, even Anno rarely posts these days.
I suppose if the trend continues many other thinkers will leave, myself among them.
I wonder when I just won't be up to it anymore.
I am very serious about this.
Cheers,
MM
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Jellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2165699 - 12/07/03 12:59 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I lived and worked in Silicon Valley for 18 years and was totally drug free during that era while making significant contributions.
The fact that you were drug-free during your time there says nothing about the others.
Yet suddenly drugs ARE NECESSARY for advanced thinking and creating?
Notice I never said drugs are necessary for creative thinking. Those are *your* words. They sure don't hurt though and can be very helpful. I've spoken to numerous people who gained insight through mind-expanding drugs and utilized the insights they gained in their fields. It can and does happen.
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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orizon
shroomin bliss

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 876
Last seen: 18 years, 10 months
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Jellric]
#2165714 - 12/07/03 01:07 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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#1 (intellectually inferior) is the only one that I totally disagree with. I dont think anybody here is inferior intellectually...maybe they seek more knowledge then they already possess but not at all "inferior"
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Jellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: ]
#2165722 - 12/07/03 01:11 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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You find what you seek. Seek battles and negativity and you will find it. My advice is hang in there, don't take things so seriously, and cheer up!! You seem to be bouncing off the rails as of late. S&P needs Mr Mushrooms!
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Jellric]
#2165768 - 12/07/03 01:31 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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The fact that you were drug-free during your time there says nothing about the others. No, but the fact is that most all (if not all!) technological advances were created without the usage of drugs. These advances will continue without psychedelic stimulation; therefore how can you point to this or that invention and say, "Aha, this came from visiting another dimension or mindstate!"?
Yet suddenly drugs ARE NECESSARY for advanced thinking and creating?
Notice I never said drugs are necessary for creative thinking. Those are *your* words. This was an opening to clarify your position, not to put words in your mouth. Apparently the concept of a question is a new one for you.
They sure don't hurt though Puh-lease. Read some of the disatrous trip reports on Erowid.
I've spoken to numerous people who gained insight through mind-expanding drugs and utilized the insights they gained in their fields. Is this a secret or are you going to share these insights?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 11 days
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2165900 - 12/07/03 04:53 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ya'll like, need to, just chiilll out, man. Get a load of Captain Bringdown! Man, so far out..... 
Seriously, though. You take these seeds, and you cast them everywhere. Fucking throw them in the fertile soil, throw them on the well traveled roads, throw them in the thorns that block out the light.
The thing about mushrooms is, ja, it can be used as a catalyst for higher consciousness. The difference with something like this is that it is going to have some impact, regardless of what kind of person you are. This is different from like meditation and, well, sober philsophy, consciously expanding your mind and climbing that ladder because all you have to do is eat them. They are going to work, regardless.
With the other things I listed, you only find the answers, so to speak, because you take a conscious decision to change and you have a strong determination to continue down the path. You aren't going to get anywhere if you don't get off of your ass with these things.
Mushrooms, and other psychadelics, they take you aside and work their magic. If you aren't anywhere close to being able to consciously take what it shows you and integrate it into your normal, sober state of mind, than you are going to have an experience and the next day things will go back to normal.
I don't have too much experience with the '60's. I don't know too much, but the way I see it, these "normal" minds were shown an alternative and it was different than the '50's state of mind, so they jumped right in and pushed things in that direction. The whole suburban, "conformist" state of mind was pushing far to the right, and the '60's pushed hard to the left. *shrugs*
Maybe things are balancing out now. I don't know. The only way that things will change if people make them change. It is easy to think about things and see what could be possible while tripping. It is a lot harder to make these changes within yourself, because you have to do the work yourself. No chemicals are doing the hard work.
You have to integrate. You have to develop a taste for changing yourself and evolving, and you have to actually start doing what is needed to change. Rome wasn't built in a day, I didn't learn how to play bass guitar like I do without a lot of hard work that happened to be a lot of fun ( ), and we didn't just go straight from caveman to whoever the hell we are now.
If we are going to ever evolve as a species consciously, we have to become conscious first. Mushrooms can show you how to get your foot on the next step of the ladder, you have to lift your fucking foot yourself. Because you know Shawn Michaels and Razor Ramoan are waiting for a chance to tip that fucking ladder over on you. Falling off a fucking ladder isn't fun.
Sorry if my thoughts aren't really organized at the moment, but I was playing bass while reading these threads on here, and I want to get back to slowly expanding, consciously evolving on a personal level. We all know the fucking Path, sometime you are going to have to get off of the fucking couch and walk it.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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mr crisper
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Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 928
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: ]
#2165982 - 12/07/03 06:44 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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have you changed, mr m.?
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: mr crisper]
#2166085 - 12/07/03 08:14 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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exploration of conciousness will lead to some sort of discovery, some sort of growth.
"This sort of statement is always problematical for me as it says nothing. Please point to some specific issues, rather than making some vague sweeping speculation, to back up your point."
there are some things the language has a difficult time explaining. have you never experienced the feeling of an insight, personal understanding of a part of life, or part of the nature of reality? my statement is vague, i am aware, and it mostly reflects on my own experience--however, i am far from the only one who suspects this idea. and afterall, that's what it is...an idea.
-------------------- "...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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kaiowas
lest we baguette


Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Viaggio]
#2166139 - 12/07/03 09:10 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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magic mushrooms?
so wait a minute you are seeing people come and go, and that makes you disinterested? people come and go here. some stop totally, and then new people come in. a lot of the times asking the same questions. this is good too see for me. it's almost an assurance on the direction of thinking I have went.
And then if you take a step back and really realize how circular the path gets, it's then all good when you see the same things pop up. you comment, and maybe have a more profound meaning of the concept. you can only go deeper.
-------------------- Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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Anonymous
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Jellric]
#2166151 - 12/07/03 09:15 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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First off I don't think you find what you seek if you are looking in the wrong place. I could look all day for MarkostheGnostic and wouldn't find him in here.
And I don't mind battles. In a sense a good intellectual argument is a battle of sorts.
I am as chirper as a bird but I have always been a serious person with a good sense of humor.
And I fully realize that some of the missing thinkers could have been brought about by my departure, and Swami's for that matter. As a long time reader and watcher of this forum I noticed a long time ago the draw that Swami, and to a lesser extent myself, have had on this forum. When he is here the activity goes up and so does participation from certain people. He has a lot of fans.
-------------------------------
And yes, MrCrisper I have changed in the sense that we all change to some degree. But there is no doubt that the forum has changed dramatically.
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SpecialEd
+ one

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 6,220
Loc: : Gringo
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: ]
#2166157 - 12/07/03 09:21 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
And I fully realize that some of the missing thinkers could have been brought about by my departure, and Swami's for that matter. As a long time reader and watcher of this forum I noticed a long time ago the draw that Swami, and to a lesser extent myself, have had on this forum. When he is here the activity goes up and so does participation from certain people. He has a lot of fans.
it does get tiring to read
poster 1. I realized that aliens don't exist today poster 2. yes they do... ad infinitum
-------------------- "Plus one upvote +1..." --- // -- /l_l\/ --\-/----
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Anonymous
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: SpecialEd]
#2166162 - 12/07/03 09:25 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Indeed
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Positronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 5 months
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: ]
#2166165 - 12/07/03 09:27 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I disagree
-------------------- and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
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kaiowas
lest we baguette


Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: ]
#2166166 - 12/07/03 09:27 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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yeah you might have been here long, and swami might have fans, but look, that says nothing of whatever "trend" that this place is going. it just sounds so negative. and like the what if questions. what if someone else was here, did i bring about such and such happening? sounds like dwelling on stuff to me. why would you jsut outright look FOR a certain someone to post. why not just click on most of them and read them? I'm surey ou can learn from many different people. and learning a lot of things from the same person.
see you talk about a trend that this place is going towards, and you are seeing the same thing I saw at the System of a down board I used to be at. I left and went other places. that's the thing people move on. so it's not some downward trend that is going to help you go away
only you help yourself go away.
-------------------- Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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Anonymous
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: kaiowas]
#2166187 - 12/07/03 09:40 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well that's one way of looking at it.
One could also say that traffic patterns don't change after the high school lets out.
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel


Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 3 months, 5 days
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: ]
#2166197 - 12/07/03 09:52 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think a hell of a lot of change came from the sixties, but overall, psychedelic drugs aren't really responsible for much of it, and a lot of the ideas and changes didn't stick the way they were supposed to.
A lot of social causes because mainstream, think of the progress blacks experienced in that decade. Feminism grew and became widely accepted. The sexual revolution exploded and has certainly had a huge impact on today's society. Without it there would be no gay rights, no sex advice columns, no legal porn industry.
The hippies all grew up and became businessmen. They also became politicians, and even though they became a lot more conservative, as more and more baby boomers start passing laws, the more liberal society gets.
I could ramble on a bit more, but I've got to go...
-------------------- "I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson http://phluck.is-after.us
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Jellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2166231 - 12/07/03 10:25 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Apparently the concept of a question is a new one for you. No, and sadly your putting words in peoples mouths is not new either. Don't be surprised when I call you on it. No, but the fact is that most all (if not all!) technological advances were created without the usage of drugs I never said they were; I'm talking specifically about the mind effects help in the computer industry. Puh-lease. Read some of the disatrous trip reports on Erowid There you go again. I was referring to usage of mind-expanding drugs on a large scale which is what I thought this topic was all about. Try reading my posts more carefully in the future, Swamster.
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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Jellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: ]
#2166240 - 12/07/03 10:33 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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First off I don't think you find what you seek if you are looking in the wrong place. Amen to that. BTW, I've been here at least as long as you have, and find this place to be not all that different from years ago. People come and go- same as it ever was. Sure, if you're pining for a certain individual you may be dissapointed. One thing that has changed, and this is more reflective of culture at large, is that people don't take care in their posts in terms of spelling, punctuation, etc. I can think of several users in particular who shall go nameless. When I see their names pop up I sort of sigh and prepare to enter decode mode. Particularly when they use no caps at the beginning of sentences, and no paragraphs- just one big blob. I mean if you feel your ideas have merit why not make the effort to ensure they are well presented?? *rant mode off*
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Jellric]
#2166277 - 12/07/03 11:03 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm talking specifically about the mind effects help in the computer industry You have not yet said one specific thing. I personally worked with many of the BIGGIES in Silicon Valley including Steve Wozniak (Apple co-founder) and other incredibly brilliant minds. None of ever spoke of any correlation between drugs and inventing / creating nor did I witness anything of the sort. Mozart claimed wine helped him to compose, yet he was a musical prodigy at age 5 long before he drank. It is very difficult to draw ANY direct correlation. As many creative geniuses are drug free, do we claim that eating corn flakes was the "key" to their imagination? Must there be some external chemical stimuli?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin


Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2166284 - 12/07/03 11:06 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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A Bill Hicks quote seems appropriate here. "I think drugs have done some good things for us, I really do. And if you don't think so, do me a favor. Go home tonight and take all your albums, all your CDs and burn them, because you know what? All the musicians that made all that great music? RRRRReal fucking high on drugs. The Beatles were so fucking high they let Ringo sing a few songs."
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Shroomism]
#2166289 - 12/07/03 11:09 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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blah...who cares anymore?
-------------------- "...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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Shroomism
Space Travellin


Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Viaggio]
#2166295 - 12/07/03 11:12 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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not you. About what?
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Shroomism]
#2166300 - 12/07/03 11:15 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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A quote, while quaint shows little, but how about one DIRECTLY from an aforementioned Beatle?
From "Breaking Open The Head"
John Lennon was one of Leary's casualties. Lenbnon tripped on LSD over a thousand times in the late 1960s, leading to a long period of inactivity. "I got a message on acid that you should destroy your ego," he admitted later. "I was reading that stupid book of Leary's and all that shit. We were going through a whole game that everyone went through and I destroyed myself."
DIRECT FORM THE SOURCE! Wiggle away on that one.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin


Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2166310 - 12/07/03 11:23 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Heh... he says, "you should destroy your ego" and then.. "I destroyed myself"... isn't that one in the same? If he literally destroyed himself, he wouldn't be saying that. Sounds like he just damaged his ego. Wiggle away on that one. Nah. I don't even listen to the Beatles. I was just using good ol' Hicks' quote as it's a good one. It still applies to all my favorite bands and artists... the ones that inspired me to become a musician, and helped me to evolve. Hell, based on my personal (subjective) experience with entheogens, I experienced more learning and growth through mushrooms and dmt, then the sixties put together
--------------------
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Jellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Shroomism]
#2166312 - 12/07/03 11:27 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm going to have to get some Hicks from Kazaa to-day.
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Shroomism]
#2166318 - 12/07/03 11:32 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Wiggle away on that one.
Nah. I don't even listen to the Beatles.
That is a wiggle right there. You use Hicks to claim that the Beatles music was inspried by drugs and yet a major creative force behind the Beatles claims drugs shut down his creativity.
It still applies to all my favorite bands and artists...
Yet another wiggle.
Hendrix, Morrison, Joplin, Garcia, Cobain, etc. would be a lot more creative if they were alive instead of dead.
--------------------
The proof is in the pudding.
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Jellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2166326 - 12/07/03 11:37 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hendrix, Morrison, Joplin, Garcia, Cobain, etc. would be a lot more creative if they were alive instead of dead.
All of the above died from alcohol and heroin and pills. Not mind-expanding drugs
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin


Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2166335 - 12/07/03 11:42 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey man don't read so deep into it. It was just a quote. The majority of the quote which you seem to be ignoring was that many if not most current musicians have been on drugs. Hendrix, Morrison, Joplin, Garcia, Cobain, etc. would be a lot more creative if they were alive instead of dead. A lot more creative in the physical plane, perhaps. I bet they're living it up on the other side. How about: Opeth Blind Guardian Iced Earth Nevermore Symphony X Dream Theater Steve Vai Joe Satriani Death In Flames Tool Dimmu Borgir Therion And any other of the hundred or so bands I listen to that are still alive and on all kinds of drugs, like mushrooms. Nevermore said it best: There's no control in the world today, and there's still no order to this game we all play Maybe none of us know what's real There's no constraint when the walls cave in, the neuron turn on, the game begins to fade away Maybe none of us know, maybe none of us want to hear, never push against the flow aimlessly Feel the flow and let all thought fade, we shall be one For this sacrament has begun Lucy in the sky with diamond eyes, long since dark, I wear her disguise of light Maybe none of us know, maybe none of us want to hear, never push against the flow aimlessly Feel the flow and let all thought fade, we shall be one For this sacrament has begun This sacrament is a state of mind There's no control in the world today, and there's still no order to this game we all play called life Maybe none of us know, maybe none of us want to hear, never push against the flow aimlessly Feel the flow and let all thought fade, we shall be one Through this sacrament Feel the flow and let all thought fade, we shall be one For this sacrament has begun, this sacrament has begun To become one with the flow is to realize purpose To realize purpose is to become one with the flow Become one with the flow, become one with the flow This sacrament has begun The seven tongues of god are in my mind, they speak to me in ancient DNA design I have never seen god, you have never seen god And when they speak to me and the seven tongues align programmed to desecrate the pretensions in your mind To further complicate I will now state that your convictions lack definition and form Yeah.. mushrooms induced ramblings that don't really go anywhere.. gotta love it.
--------------------
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Shroomism
Space Travellin


Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Shroomism]
#2166365 - 12/07/03 11:53 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quick!!! Post more lyrics.. before he has a chance to respond!! Opeth - The Apostle in Triumph In solitude I wander.... Through the vast enchanted forest The surrounding skies are one Torn apart by the phenomenon of lightning Rain is pouring down my (now) shivering shoulders In the rain my tears are forever lost The darkened oaks are my only shelter Red leaves are blown by the wind An ebony raven now catches my eyes Sitting in calmness Before spreading its black wings Reaching for the skies In this forest Where wolves cry their agony unto the moon My spirit is hidden In the form of wisdom Carved on a black stone The only way to follow Open your soul Redeem, I am immortal Blinded by a light My soul is held up high in glory I engulf the skies The apostel in triumph Through the eternal flame I travel As the rain keeps falling....
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Jellric]
#2166378 - 12/07/03 11:56 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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All of the above died from alcohol and heroin and pills. Not mind-expanding drugs
Uh-huh. Their minds could not have been too expanded then to see the danger of what they were doing, could they?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Shroomism]
#2166393 - 12/07/03 12:01 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I would just like to say that I am on drugs. Well, not at the moment. But I have one bowl left that I am saving. 
Can I play bass guitar when I am not on drugs? Sure. I make it a point to feel creative and to be able to perform well when not on drugs. However, psychadelics certainly make me more creatitve. I consider it an aid.
See, I don't even know what it is that I am trying to say now. I just like totally zoned out on my bed, just breathing, and now I am just sitting in front of the computer, listening to some music and reading. *shrugs*
Maybe I just feel to reply when someone lists bands like Opeth, Nevermore, and Symphony X. Add IN FLAMES, TOOL, Dimmu Borgir, Dark Tranquillity, Iron Maiden,Therion, and Borknagar to that list and hell, that's me. hehe
I dunno, I guess I just can't really say what drugs do to other people. I only know myself and my thoughts, what I feel, and what I do because of those thoughts. I mean, I consider myself a nice person, I don't act negatively to people and I try to keep an open mind as much as possible. I have an interest that I wish to spend my life pursuing, and I mean, I pursue it. I am sober a lot of the time, but the drugs are definitely nice, and they help the creativity.
I seriously don't think any drugs are causing a devolution. Like I said earlier, it all depends on who is using them and how they are using them. Life is too short..  Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Shroomism
Space Travellin


Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Add IN FLAMES, TOOL, Dimmu Borgir, Dark Tranquillity, Iron Maiden,Therion, and Borknagar to that list and hell done and done
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Jellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2166407 - 12/07/03 12:07 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Their minds could not have been too expanded then to see the danger of what they were doing, could they? They were fine until they got away from psychedelics into other drugs. Mind-expanding drugs are no panacea. As with usage of any substance, balanced usage is key. When Morrison got away from acid and turned towards alcohol his creativity tanked and then he commited suicide with heroin. All of the others you mentioned were heavily into alcohol and/or heroin.
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin


Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Jellric]
#2166411 - 12/07/03 12:09 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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alcohol and heroin are bad mmmmk?
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Jellric]
#2166415 - 12/07/03 12:11 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ah, the old good drugs/bad drugs scenario. Sounds like government propaganda. 
Still waiting for your SPECIFIC computer invention examples. Are you from Dodge City?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Jellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2166421 - 12/07/03 12:15 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I never made any such claim. Speaking of claims, when are you going to prove the premise of your thread, oh Dodge Master?
Time for a beer..
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2166439 - 12/07/03 12:22 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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*decides to scream to be heard* IT IS ALL IN THE MIND, DAMN IT! 
*calms down*
Seriously, though. The drugs aren't causing any sort of devolution, or whatever negative effects that we are talking about here. When you tend your garden, and you put too much fertilizer in an effort to grow super pot, and you kill off the plants, was it the fertilizer that killed them? I don't think so.
The name of the game here is who you are. Your thoughts. Your intentions. How you act. How you feeeeeel. How you cope. How you react to input, to different situations. A drug is a catalyst, a new experience. How you walk into it and what you bring with is going to determine how you walk out.
*shrugs* Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
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Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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fireworks god is cool
-------------------- "...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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Positronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
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Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 5 months
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psychotropics optimize my profits
-------------------- and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
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Jellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Viaggio]
#2166496 - 12/07/03 12:52 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ever played Half Life, Swami? Someone get this man a copy. God, it'd be kick ass to have you and Shroomism on my server to play with/against!! It'd be so cool to see what style of combat each of you would employ.
*Off topic mode off*
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Jellric]
#2166504 - 12/07/03 12:55 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Time for a beer..
And a fix?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin


Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Jellric]
#2166509 - 12/07/03 12:57 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Damn.. you got some psychic abilities..I've been trying to get a pirated version of half life to work all morning.. to no avail. Guess I'll have to go buy it But DOD (Day of Defeat.. half life mod) is my thing. I've only played counterstrike like twice.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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and you put too much fertilizer in an effort to grow super pot, and you kill off the plants, was it the fertilizer that killed them?
Clearly, yes.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Jellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2166515 - 12/07/03 01:00 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Time for a beer.. And a fix? No, I'm fixin' to have a beer.
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Shroomism]
#2166531 - 12/07/03 01:06 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've been trying to get a pirated version...
So all that talk of ethics and service-to-others is total bullshit, eh? I discontinued developing games due to piracy.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Jellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Shroomism]
#2166538 - 12/07/03 01:09 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well my server is vanilla valve Half Life. I like it cause it's just like the single-player game. I tweaked it so you can also fight monsters from the SP game like zombies, gargantua, grunts etc. I would like to try some mods sometime as well. This is going to make you laugh, but I had a dream with you in it the other night. We were both vampires battling each other on rooftops. Somehow you ended up in a church and died in a pew. When you died your body changed into that of Darryl Hall from Hall and Oates. (I couldn't make this up). Don't ask me why. But then I realized we were only playing a video game and you had more lives. Sorry for going off topic. I have something on-topic for you, Swami just as soon as my beloved Saints put away Tampa Bay. *crosses fingers*
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin


Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2166548 - 12/07/03 01:12 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah yeah yeah... the money machine keeps on rolling Considering there's like 6 versions of it, and I've already payed for two of them, and they got destroyed in a flood, I figured why not try and download it. Service to others would allow people who already payed for it with hard earned money to upgrade for free. But it's all about money, and that's spiritual right?
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Jangempo
Stranger

Registered: 01/08/03
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Loc: Canada
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2166584 - 12/07/03 01:25 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Swami said: "My nonsensemeter has been pegged off the scale here lately. I am not talking humor, but beliefs in fantastical things with no foundation."
I have to say that I've noticed the same thing lately, I've been seeing posts that I can not agree with at all because they are based on knowledge derived from assumptions that cannot be verified scientifically, and from illogical conclusions that are often misled by fantasy.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Shroomism]
#2166596 - 12/07/03 01:33 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Service to others would allow people who already payed for it with hard earned money to upgrade for free. But it's all about money, and that's spiritual right?
I love the spiritual circumventing of ethics using convoluted rationalization. Theft is taking something not directly offered to you by the owner / creator.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2166607 - 12/07/03 01:36 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
and you put too much fertilizer in an effort to grow super pot, and you kill off the plants, was it the fertilizer that killed them?
Clearly, yes.
Okay, then. But I think it is pretty clear that the fertilizer killed them because there was too much fertilizer, and who was the one who administered the fertilizer?
Okay, now my analogy just sounds dumb.
Raise your hand if you didn't understand what I was implying. 
No hard feelings, man. I'm crazy, you're crazy, we're all crazy. Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Jellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2166624 - 12/07/03 01:47 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not copyright laws again!!!
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Jellric]
#2166631 - 12/07/03 01:49 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not copyright laws again!!!
This is a law of nature. You let a thread run long enough, and it all comes back to copyright laws. They are the Alpha and the Omega. Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
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-------------------- "...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Positronius]
#2166637 - 12/07/03 01:53 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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psychotropics optimize my profits
And how do they optimize your profits?
--------------------
The proof is in the pudding.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2166649 - 12/07/03 01:58 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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After five pages of replies, I want to know what people now think on the subject, truthfully, now that we have had some back and forth. Let's reach some sort of understanding. Myself, I know that under the wrong circumstances, drugs can certainly not help. But I think they have potential of really helping some of us along....... and that if others were brought to change some, that it would also help them out. Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
Edited by fireworks_god (12/07/03 01:59 PM)
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Frog
Warrior


Registered: 10/22/03
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I don't use the types of drugs that others, here, use, because they make me feel funny.
I use Adderall and I drink wine at night. I use Adderall to think more clearly, because my brain feels foggy. I don't feel, however, that Adderall helps me to think of things I wouldn't have thought of if I hadn't been taking Adderall.
I drink wine at night to shut my brain off, not to make it work better.
Now, I also look at people who use various types of drugs, who say those drugs help them to think better. Who am I to say that they're wrong?
I have to give an example, to help me make my point: My friend smokes a hell of a lot of pot. One hit would put me to bed. She claims that the pot makes her think better. Makes her brain more clear. She sure doesn't act stoned. She has a good job working as an accountant.
Just because the types of drugs my friend uses, are the type that make me feel funny, doesn't mean that they don't work for her.
See, because of being ADHD, I have done a lot of research and my general "thinking" about how the brain works, based on all that reading, is that everyone's brains work differently. MOst people can probably do just fine without any drugs whatsoever. Some people's brains are not wired correctly for various reasons and even though they can function without the drugs, certain drugs help certain brains.
Not everyone will benefit from taking Adderall. But I certainly don't benefit from smoking pot or taking psychedelics. I don't see how anyone else does, since they don't help me, but just because they don't help me doesn't mean they don't help someone else.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Facts:
1. People burn-out, have bad trips, do stupid things, exacerbate mental illness, become detached from consensus reality and occasionally die on psychedelics(even mushrooms).
2. Most people on these boards have tried some psychedelics.
3. Much of the logic on these boards is weak, faulty or non-existent.
Speculation:
1. Psychedelics inspire creation. Evidence?
2. Psychedelics create new ways of thinking. Evidence?
3. Psychedelics increase intelligence. Evidence?
--------------------
The proof is in the pudding.
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Positronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 5 months
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2166682 - 12/07/03 02:15 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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1. Psychedelics inspire creation. Evidence?
thousands of first-hand testimonials
2. Psychedelics create new ways of thinking. Evidence?
doesnt the use of psychedelic create more neural pathways?
-------------------- and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
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Anonymous
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Personally, for me, mind expanding drugs opened my mind to question things that were taught to me as if they were the gospel truth.
Did I question things like that before the drugs?
Yes.
Did I question them with the clarity and precision that I did after the drugs?
Not on your life.
And these questions were and are the cornerstone of who I am today.
They helped me to find truth and realize what constitutes a good life from a bad life.
And yes, there is a qualitative difference.
In any event we shouldn't blame the drugs but the people who misuse them. John Lennon misused drugs and his life went to shit. I hope that isn't a revelation for anyone. Fireworks point was right on target.
Don't blame the fertilizer. Blame the asshole who overfertilized the plant.
Anything can be misused.
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Jellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
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Having been partly responsible for the devolution of this thread, let me try to steer a course back towards what Swami was getting at.
Thomas Edison was the most prolific inventor of the twentieth century. He holds 1,093 patents including things you may have heard of: the lightbulb and phonograph (read "turntable" for the kids out there).
LSD had yet to be discovered (even by Edison) in his day, but altered states could be had by other means. "Edison used to work very hard in his research ..Then when he would reach a 'sticking point' he would take one of his famous 'cat naps'. He would doze off in his favorite chair, holding steel balls in the palms of his hands. As he would fall asleep - drifting into alpha - his arms would relax and lower, letting the balls fall into pans on the floor. The noise would wake Edison and very often he would awaken with an idea to continue with his project." -Bernd
There you have it. Perhaps the most famous inventor in history using altered states to create inventions. Deal with THAT, Swami.
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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Positronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Jellric]
#2166697 - 12/07/03 02:18 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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what about da vinci, his drug of choice was sleep deprivation, yes?
Coppola dropped acid while making Apocalypse Now
-------------------- and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Positronius]
#2166706 - 12/07/03 02:21 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Coppola dropped acid while making Apocalypse Now
He also picked his nose while making that movie. To make any kind of point you must show correlation. You know: cause and effect.
--------------------
The proof is in the pudding.
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Anonymous
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Positronius]
#2166711 - 12/07/03 02:22 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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And Bach was a caffeine freak along with Buckminster Fuller.
There are dozens of examples.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2166715 - 12/07/03 02:23 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Facts:
1. People burn-out, have bad trips, do stupid things, exacerbate mental illness, become detached from consensus reality and occasionally die on psychedelics(even mushrooms).
2. Most people on these boards have tried some psychedelics.
3. Much of the logic on these boards is weak, faulty or non-existent.
I am not disagreeing with any of this. Except for number two, I would like to think it doesn't apply to me (unless I am too far detached from consensus reality... the consensus? )
Quote:
Speculation:
1. Psychedelics inspire creation. Evidence?
2. Psychedelics create new ways of thinking. Evidence?
3. Psychedelics increase intelligence. Evidence?
I don't believe that psychadelics increase intelligence. Creating new ways of thinking? Well, they might open a door to a way of thinking long ago abandoned.... probably to survive as a species.
We developed the ability to focus so that we could survive. Well, that is definitely a good thing. But it is nice once and awhile to let ourselves go in a controlled environment and just experience... it puts a fresh perspective on the time where we have to focus and also teaches us the lesson of learning how to change what we focus on... well, if you learn it.
As far as psychadelics inspiring Creation, I have personal evidence on that one. I will try to show this, but you don't have to accept it if you don't want to.
Myself, I find that when altered (marijuana, of course... cocaine occasionally, but there is an entirely different reason on why that works. hehe) I am able to "feel" what it is that I am playing. Definitely hard to explain.
I guess I find that psycadelics allow my mind to get a grasp on the entire experience. My mind can put the pieces together a lot easier because I am not thinking about other things.
Anyways, I understand that this is all entirely capable sober, and is actually something I am really striving for. But it doesn't hurt to drink some wine and write some symphonies occasionally.  Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Jellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: ]
#2166718 - 12/07/03 02:24 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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John Lennon misused drugs and his life went to shit. If only all of our lives went to shit like Lennon's the world would be a wonderful place. Seriously, I take your point. You can't blame the drugs, but you can blame the person. Being a fan of Lennon and The Beatles, I just wanted to clarify that Lennon only briefly got off track with his use of drugs. Even if he had stopped there, his life would have been totally worthwhile. Years later he had hits again..Instant Karma, Double Fantasty, etc. Then his career was cut short by a nutcase.
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Positronius]
#2166725 - 12/07/03 02:27 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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thousands of first-hand testimonials Anecdotes mean little. In tests, art done while tripping was worse than that done sober.
doesnt the use of psychedelic create more neural pathways? Not to my knowledge. Reference please.
--------------------
The proof is in the pudding.
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Positronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Jellric]
#2166726 - 12/07/03 02:27 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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swami:He also picked his nose while making that movie. To make any kind of point you must show correlation. You know: cause and effect
Coppola wanted to make a great surrealist film, so he took psychedelic drugs during productions.
effect = surrealist masterpeice
cause = genius + LSD
-------------------- and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
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Positronius
playboy

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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Positronius]
#2166731 - 12/07/03 02:28 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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swami: Anecdotes mean little. In tests, art done while tripping was worse than that done sober. I guess youve never heard of the impressionists, thats a pity. empiricism is not merely anecdotal. Were you feeling creative before you took the drug? no were you feeling creative while on the drug? yes bam! there you go, go test this out on someone and see if works out.
-------------------- and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
Edited by Positronius (12/07/03 02:32 PM)
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Jellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2166738 - 12/07/03 02:32 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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In tests, art done while tripping was worse than that done sober. What kind of art would a person come up with in a lab surrounded by scientists in white lab coats?! Test Tube Boy strikes (out) again! Swami, do you know anything about the creative process??
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2166746 - 12/07/03 02:35 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
thousands of first-hand testimonials Anecdotes mean little. In tests, art done while tripping was worse than that done sober.
I could believe this, because it is often times extremely hard to function normally while peaking, at least for myself.
Then again, who knows. A lot of musicians have went on stage on acid. Myself, I don't see how I could do it. Marijuana, maybe. Cocaine, definitely, but sticking your head into a lion's mouth usually isn't a good thing unless you are extremely capable of doing it right... and there is always that time that you get bit anyways...
But back to what I was saying. I could definitely see how one couldn't create if the dose was too powerful. However, the insight and the perspective gained from the experience I think could definitely produce some very quality art later on. True, it is one step down the road, but it is still an effect of the experience.  Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Jellric]
#2166755 - 12/07/03 02:39 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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...in a lab surrounded by scientists in white lab coats?!
Huh? Hallucinating again?
--------------------
The proof is in the pudding.
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Jellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2166756 - 12/07/03 02:40 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah, I thought I saw a reply to my destruction of your hypothesis .
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Jellric]
#2166761 - 12/07/03 02:44 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Yeah, I thought I saw a reply to my destruction of your hypothesis .
I think what he is saying is that a lot of times the tests are done in an environment more suitable for what is being tested.  Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Positronius]
#2166768 - 12/07/03 02:48 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Coppola wanted to make a great surrealist film, so he took psychedelic drugs during productions.
Stanley Kubrick made a great psychedelic sci-fi (2001) without drugs.
Genius + drugs = great work of art
Genius without drugs = great work of art
Let's get the common denominator which would be "genius".
Seems like your garden-variety null hypothesis.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Jellric
altered statesman

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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2166782 - 12/07/03 02:56 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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*bump*
Thomas Edison was the most prolific inventor of the twentieth century. He holds 1,093 patents including things you may have heard of: the lightbulb and phonograph (read "turntable" for the kids out there).
LSD had yet to be discovered (even by Edison) in his day, but altered states could be had by other means. "Edison used to work very hard in his research ..Then when he would reach a 'sticking point' he would take one of his famous 'cat naps'. He would doze off in his favorite chair, holding steel balls in the palms of his hands. As he would fall asleep - drifting into alpha - his arms would relax and lower, letting the balls fall into pans on the floor. The noise would wake Edison and very often he would awaken with an idea to continue with his project." -Bernd
There you have it. Perhaps the most famous inventor in history using altered states to create inventions. Deal with THAT, Swami.
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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Jellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
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Yeah, I thought I saw a reply to my destruction of your hypothesis .
I think what he is saying is that a lot of times the tests are done in an environment more suitable for what is being tested
And this relates to my demolition of Swami's argument how?
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer

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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2166793 - 12/07/03 03:04 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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hmm...maybe shrooms (and the like) are capapble of both positive and negative influence on our species?
-------------------- "...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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Positronius
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Viaggio]
#2166807 - 12/07/03 03:10 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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2001 wasnt a surrealist film, why not make a proper analogy?> and actually, it is a well known fact (within the film literate elite) that drugs ran rampant on kubrick sets. Check the Shining, think "cocaine" do your homework
-------------------- and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
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Ped
Interested In Your Brain



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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2166874 - 12/07/03 03:45 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why do we waste our energy on threads like these? Are we that insecure?
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Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Jellric]
#2166882 - 12/07/03 03:49 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Dozing = psychedelic drug usage? Why jell, that is a stretch even for you!
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The proof is in the pudding.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Ped]
#2166894 - 12/07/03 03:53 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Why do we waste our energy on threads like these? Are we that insecure?
Hey man, that 20 minute piano song you played, was that on your comedown?
I really loved that, by the way. hehe Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Jellric
altered statesman

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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2166939 - 12/07/03 04:10 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't think they had LSD back then. It was an altered state of consciousness no matter how hard you try to escape it. Case closed.
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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Positronius
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Jellric]
#2167784 - 12/07/03 11:54 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why do we waste our energy on threads like these? Are we that insecure?
= nice try, insecurity has nothing to do with it, try insomnia driven boredom.
-------------------- and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
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Mixomatosis
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Positronius]
#2167790 - 12/07/03 11:57 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I know I've portrayed myself falsely just to piss you guys off and use you as agents of my own entertainment. I don't know.. is that wrong? I can rationalize my actions if I have to.
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sirreal
devoid
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Quote:
fireworks_god said: *decides to scream to be heard* IT IS ALL IN THE MIND, DAMN IT! 
*calms down*
Seriously, though. The drugs aren't causing any sort of devolution, or whatever negative effects that we are talking about here. When you tend your garden, and you put too much fertilizer in an effort to grow super pot, and you kill off the plants, was it the fertilizer that killed them? I don't think so.
The name of the game here is who you are. Your thoughts. Your intentions. How you act. How you feeeeeel. How you cope. How you react to input, to different situations. A drug is a catalyst, a new experience. How you walk into it and what you bring with is going to determine how you walk out.
*shrugs* Peace.
Exactly!
-------------------- I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest ----------- I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!
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sirreal
devoid
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: ]
#2167956 - 12/08/03 01:19 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
I suppose if the trend continues many other thinkers will leave, myself among them.
MM
Maybe the problem is not that the "thinkers" are being replaced by "non-thinkers", But that the so-called thinkers are just arrogant windbags that think just because they've memorized a bunch of textbook phrases in "logic", that they are somehow superior.
Alot of the so-called bullshit I read on here really seems to be mis-represented truth. Even uneducated people can have insight into the nature of things. They just cannot explain it in terms that you "thinkers" can understand.
If you were such a thinker you would be a little more thoughtful about this whole thing.
-------------------- I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest ----------- I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: sirreal]
#2167963 - 12/08/03 01:24 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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They just cannot explain it in terms that you "thinkers" can understand.
How insightful and helpful that is! Poor communication is now a indicator of wisdom!
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The proof is in the pudding.
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sirreal
devoid
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2167989 - 12/08/03 01:36 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said: They just cannot explain it in terms that you "thinkers" can understand.
How insightful and helpful that is! Poor communication is now a indicator of wisdom!
I am glad you thought that was insightful.
But it is not poor communication that is the problem, atleast not on the part of the communicator. It is lack of understanding by the listener.
I don't believe in the concept of aliens or ghosts as expressed by the many members on this board, but to say that thier ideas are bunk and without any merit whatsoever is just being narrow minded.
I have a friend who's mother is very superstitious. The other day I was talking to her and, as I always do, was only paying partial attention to her. Then, all of the sudden it hit me. She believes in alot of the same concepts in which I believe. She just relates them differently.
Communication is a process which involve more than one person.
Unless you are schizo!
-------------------- I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest ----------- I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: sirreal]
#2168000 - 12/08/03 01:39 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not believing in falsehoods is narrow-minded? So you accept everything that everyone tells you?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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sirreal
devoid
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2168012 - 12/08/03 01:44 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said: Not believing in falsehoods is narrow-minded? So you accept everything that everyone tells you?
WOW! you really need to re-read my post swami. That is not at all what I said. And I thought you had excellent comprehension. I know you asked a question, and the answer is no.
-------------------- I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest ----------- I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!
Edited by sirreal (12/08/03 01:45 AM)
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Positronius]
#2168016 - 12/08/03 01:48 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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2001 wasnt a surrealist film, why not make a proper analogy?
Once again you are "right"!
sur?re?al?ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (s-r-lzm) n. A 20th-century literary and artistic movement that attempts to express the workings of the subconscious and is characterized by fantastic imagery and incongruous juxtaposition of subject matter.
There was no fanastic imagery as Dave rebirthed in another dimension and the juxtaposition of a black rectangular door at the dawn of evolution/civilization has been "done-to-death".
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Positronius
playboy

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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2168052 - 12/08/03 02:05 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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yes, obviously it was a surrealist film swami. Do you think the surrealism, especially the light show sequence wasnt in any way inspired by LSD>?
-------------------- and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Positronius]
#2168055 - 12/08/03 02:08 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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2001 wasnt a surrealist film
yes, obviously it was a surrealist film swami.
I need to know which sub-personality that I am addressing before I can answer.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Positronius
playboy

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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2168071 - 12/08/03 02:17 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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well, heres a quote from the man himself, hopefull this will clear a few things up for you.
I believe that drugs are basically of more use to the audience than to the artist. I think that the illusion of oneness with the universe, and absorption with the significance of every object in your environment, and the pervasive aura of peace and contentment is not the ideal state for an artist. It tranquilizes the creative personality, which thrives on conflict and on the clash and ferment of ideas. The artist's transcendence must be within his own work; he should not impose any artificial barriers between himself and the mainspring of his subconscious. One of the things that's turned me against LSD is that all the people I know who use it have a peculiar inability to distinguish between things that are really interesting and stimulating and things that appear to be so in the state of universal bliss that the drug induces on a "good" trip. They seem to completely lose their critical faculties and disengage themselves from some of the most stimulating areas of life. Perhaps when everything is beautiful, nothing is beautiful
-------------------- and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
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