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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: trendal]
    #2165669 - 12/07/03 12:44 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

The "psychedelic revolution" had a lasting effect, like everything else in history.
So what? Yes everything has an effect. Point to the relevant advances in society instead of making wide-sweeping and useless statements.

A butterfly flaps its wings in Africa...and a hurrican hits the East Coast. Even the smallest parts have a lasting effect.
*Yawn* This was an allegory (and NOT A FACT!) for chaos theory. A million butterflies can flap their wings in Africa, but without proper moisture content and a high and low pressure system colliding there are no hurricanes. Kill all the cute little flutterbyes and hurricanes would still occur.



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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Viaggio]
    #2165676 - 12/07/03 12:49 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

homosexuality is near acceptance due to open and opened minds

Study a little history. Funding for AIDS far outweighs that for breast cancer, yet breast cancer kills way more Americans than AIDS, but middle-aged women are disparate entities and do not have a unified voice on that issue. However Gays united in the 1980s to have a major political voice and politicians changed laws due to enormous fiscal and voting pressure, not because they took entheogens and opened their hearts.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Viaggio]
    #2165682 - 12/07/03 12:52 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

exploration of conciousness will lead to some sort of discovery, some sort of growth.

This sort of statement is always problematical for me as it says nothing. Please point to some specific issues, rather than making some vague sweeping speculation, to back up your point.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Anonymous

Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
    #2165698 - 12/07/03 12:59 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Looks like Vietnam all over again to me.

Then the mass media has done a job on you. For shame, I thought you could out-think them.

I could give hundreds of examples, but don't have the time.

My nonsensemeter has been pegged off the scale here lately. I am not talking humor, but beliefs in fantastical things with no foundation.

People making posts without even reading them over once to see if they are coherent, nor even doing basic research on the subject matter.

Increased awareness is NOT congruent with sloppy thinking and presentation. Meditation is not a part time thing, but an integral part of the traveller's life.


I noticed the same thing. Many of the members that used to post here are no longer with us. We lost our bonafide PhD plus many others with whom it was a delight to discuss things.

I am not maligning anyone that currently posts here but this forum, in general, rarely holds my attention anymore. I post far more often in OTD. There is a reason for that.

The Shroomery, also in general, has changed since I came here. Little by little not only has my attention waned but so has that of many intelligent thinkers unless they are mycology addicts. Hell, even Anno rarely posts these days.

I suppose if the trend continues many other thinkers will leave, myself among them.

I wonder when I just won't be up to it anymore.

I am very serious about this.

Cheers,

MM

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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
    #2165699 - 12/07/03 12:59 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

I lived and worked in Silicon Valley for 18 years and was totally drug free during that era while making significant contributions.

The fact that you were drug-free during your time there says nothing about the others.

Yet suddenly drugs ARE NECESSARY for advanced thinking and creating?

Notice I never said drugs are necessary for creative thinking. Those are *your* words. They sure don't hurt though and can be very helpful. I've spoken to numerous people who gained insight through mind-expanding drugs and utilized the insights they gained in their fields. It can and does happen.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.

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Offlineorizon
shroomin bliss

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 876
Last seen: 19 years, 24 days
Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Jellric]
    #2165714 - 12/07/03 01:07 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

#1 (intellectually inferior) is the only one that I totally disagree with. I dont think anybody here is inferior intellectually...maybe they seek more knowledge then they already possess but not at all "inferior"

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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: ]
    #2165722 - 12/07/03 01:11 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

You find what you seek. Seek battles and negativity and you will find it.

My advice is hang in there, don't take things so seriously, and cheer up!! You seem to be bouncing off the rails as of late.
S&P needs Mr Mushrooms!


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Jellric]
    #2165768 - 12/07/03 01:31 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

The fact that you were drug-free during your time there says nothing about the others.
No, but the fact is that most all (if not all!) technological advances were created without the usage of drugs. These advances will continue without psychedelic stimulation; therefore how can you point to this or that invention and say, "Aha, this came from visiting another dimension or mindstate!"?

Yet suddenly drugs ARE NECESSARY for advanced thinking and creating?

Notice I never said drugs are necessary for creative thinking. Those are *your* words.
This was an opening to clarify your position, not to put words in your mouth. Apparently the concept of a question is a new one for you.

They sure don't hurt though
Puh-lease. Read some of the disatrous trip reports on Erowid.

I've spoken to numerous people who gained insight through mind-expanding drugs and utilized the insights they gained in their fields.
Is this a secret or are you going to share these insights?



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The proof is in the pudding.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
    #2165900 - 12/07/03 04:53 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Ya'll like, need to, just chiilll out, man. Get a load of Captain Bringdown! Man, so far out..... :grin:

Seriously, though. You take these seeds, and you cast them everywhere. Fucking throw them in the fertile soil, throw them on the well traveled roads, throw them in the thorns that block out the light.

The thing about mushrooms is, ja, it can be used as a catalyst for higher consciousness. The difference with something like this is that it is going to have some impact, regardless of what kind of person you are. This is different from like meditation and, well, sober philsophy, consciously expanding your mind and climbing that ladder because all you have to do is eat them. They are going to work, regardless.

With the other things I listed, you only find the answers, so to speak, because you take a conscious decision to change and you have a strong determination to continue down the path. You aren't going to get anywhere if you don't get off of your ass with these things.

Mushrooms, and other psychadelics, they take you aside and work their magic. If you aren't anywhere close to being able to consciously take what it shows you and integrate it into your normal, sober state of mind, than you are going to have an experience and the next day things will go back to normal.

I don't have too much experience with the '60's. I don't know too much, but the way I see it, these "normal" minds were shown an alternative and it was different than the '50's state of mind, so they jumped right in and pushed things in that direction. The whole suburban, "conformist" state of mind was pushing far to the right, and the '60's pushed hard to the left. *shrugs*

Maybe things are balancing out now. I don't know. The only way that things will change if people make them change. It is easy to think about things and see what could be possible while tripping. It is a lot harder to make these changes within yourself, because you have to do the work yourself. No chemicals are doing the hard work.

You have to integrate. You have to develop a taste for changing yourself and evolving, and you have to actually start doing what is needed to change. Rome wasn't built in a day, I didn't learn how to play bass guitar like I do without a lot of hard work that happened to be a lot of fun ( :grin: ), and we didn't just go straight from caveman to whoever the hell we are now.

If we are going to ever evolve as a species consciously, we have to become conscious first. Mushrooms can show you how to get your foot on the next step of the ladder, you have to lift your fucking foot yourself. Because you know Shawn Michaels and Razor Ramoan are waiting for a chance to tip that fucking ladder over on you. Falling off a fucking ladder isn't fun.

Sorry if my thoughts aren't really organized at the moment, but I was playing bass while reading these threads on here, and I want to get back to slowly expanding, consciously evolving on a personal level. We all know the fucking Path, sometime you are going to have to get off of the fucking couch and walk it.

:grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Invisiblemr crisper
.

Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 928
Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: ]
    #2165982 - 12/07/03 06:44 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

have you changed, mr m.?

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OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 18 years, 7 days
Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: mr crisper]
    #2166085 - 12/07/03 08:14 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

exploration of conciousness will lead to some sort of discovery, some sort of growth.

"This sort of statement is always problematical for me as it says nothing. Please point to some specific issues, rather than making some vague sweeping speculation, to back up your point."

there are some things the language has a difficult time explaining. have you never experienced the feeling of an insight, personal understanding of a part of life, or part of the nature of reality?
my statement is vague, i am aware, and it mostly reflects on my own experience--however, i am far from the only one who suspects this idea. and afterall, that's what it is...an idea.


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."

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Invisiblekaiowas
lest we baguette
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Viaggio]
    #2166139 - 12/07/03 09:10 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

magic mushrooms?

so wait a minute you are seeing people come and go, and that makes you disinterested? people come and go here. some stop totally, and then new people come in. a lot of the times asking the same questions. this is good too see for me. it's almost an assurance on the direction of thinking I have went.

And then if you take a step back and really realize how circular the path gets, it's then all good when you see the same things pop up. you comment, and maybe have a more profound meaning of the concept. you can only go deeper.


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Anonymous

Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Jellric]
    #2166151 - 12/07/03 09:15 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

First off I don't think you find what you seek if you are looking in the wrong place. I could look all day for MarkostheGnostic and wouldn't find him in here.

And I don't mind battles. In a sense a good intellectual argument is a battle of sorts.

I am as chirper as a bird but I have always been a serious person with a good sense of humor.

And I fully realize that some of the missing thinkers could have been brought about by my departure, and Swami's for that matter. As a long time reader and watcher of this forum I noticed a long time ago the draw that Swami, and to a lesser extent myself, have had on this forum. When he is here the activity goes up and so does participation from certain people. He has a lot of fans.

-------------------------------

And yes, MrCrisper I have changed in the sense that we all change to some degree. But there is no doubt that the forum has changed dramatically.

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OfflineSpecialEd
+ one

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 6,220
Loc: : Gringo
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: ]
    #2166157 - 12/07/03 09:21 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

And I fully realize that some of the missing thinkers could have been brought about by my departure, and Swami's for that matter. As a long time reader and watcher of this forum I noticed a long time ago the draw that Swami, and to a lesser extent myself, have had on this forum. When he is here the activity goes up and so does participation from certain people. He has a lot of fans.




it does get tiring to read

poster 1. I realized that aliens don't exist today
poster 2. yes they do...
ad infinitum


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"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----

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Anonymous

Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2166162 - 12/07/03 09:25 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Indeed

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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: ]
    #2166165 - 12/07/03 09:27 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

I disagree


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Invisiblekaiowas
lest we baguette
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: ]
    #2166166 - 12/07/03 09:27 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

yeah you might have been here long, and swami might have fans, but look, that says nothing of whatever "trend" that this place is going. it just sounds so negative. and like the what if questions. what if someone else was here, did i bring about such and such happening? sounds like dwelling on stuff to me. why would you jsut outright look FOR a certain someone to post. why not just click on most of them and read them? I'm surey ou can learn from many different people. and learning a lot of things from the same person.

see you talk about a trend that this place is going towards, and you are seeing the same thing I saw at the System of a down board I used to be at. I left and went other places. that's the thing people move on. so it's not some downward trend that is going to help you go away

only you help yourself go away.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Anonymous

Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: kaiowas]
    #2166187 - 12/07/03 09:40 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Well that's one way of looking at it.

One could also say that traffic patterns don't change after the high school lets out.

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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 months, 4 days
Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: ]
    #2166197 - 12/07/03 09:52 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

I think a hell of a lot of change came from the sixties, but overall, psychedelic drugs aren't really responsible for much of it, and a lot of the ideas and changes didn't stick the way they were supposed to.

A lot of social causes because mainstream, think of the progress blacks experienced in that decade. Feminism grew and became widely accepted. The sexual revolution exploded and has certainly had a huge impact on today's society. Without it there would be no gay rights, no sex advice columns, no legal porn industry.

The hippies all grew up and became businessmen. They also became politicians, and even though they became a lot more conservative, as more and more baby boomers start passing laws, the more liberal society gets.

I could ramble on a bit more, but I've got to go...


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
    #2166231 - 12/07/03 10:25 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Apparently the concept of a question is a new one for you.

No, and sadly your putting words in peoples mouths is not new either. Don't be surprised when I call you on it.

No, but the fact is that most all (if not all!) technological advances were created without the usage of drugs

I never said they were; I'm talking specifically about the mind effects help in the computer industry.

Puh-lease. Read some of the disatrous trip reports on Erowid

There you go again. I was referring to usage of mind-expanding drugs on a large scale which is what I thought this topic was all about. Try reading my posts more carefully in the future, Swamster.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.

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