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angryjslice
now with 20%more anger



Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 916
Last seen: 4 years, 22 days
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2164982 - 12/06/03 06:54 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said: Yeah, there sure wasn't much change in the sixties.
A temporary change, but where did it lead on an evolutionary / societal level?
Here we are again in Iraq losing American lives as well as Iraqi citizens, pouring in billions of dollars better spent on constructive endeavors, with no end in sight. Looks like Vietnam all over again to me.
What about the drug war? Worse than ever. Corporate fraud? An all time high. On and on.
60's was a revolution in the way people thought, really the turning point in our exponential growth in the acceptance of things, and questioning old belief systems. definetly was the sexual revolution. turn on your television, garuntee you'll see a very sexual situation within a few minutes. this kind of mass blasting of stuff once unheard of all has roots in the movement of the 60's, of accepting what we sexually, and not being ashamed of it as so many religions would love us to be.
thats just one example. i think a major step in our evolution occured because people realised that the moral structure they used to live in was really holding them back. you cant evolve if you refuse to change.
id like to see some studies on the primates that they teach to read and write. give them doses of hallucinogens, see what the write. i imagine itd just be fear though, unfortanatly its going to take quite a bit to evolve beyond fear. especially at this rate with the government keeping us in a fearfull state constantly. how many locks are on your door?
we'll see another movement in our lifetime. i just gotta think of something good. hehe.
listen to me babble, keystone really makes me talky...damn
~JSlice~
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Frog
Warrior


Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 11 years, 12 days
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2165109 - 12/06/03 07:51 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said: Due to the enormous number of posts filled with egregious factual errors, weak or non-existent logic, and just plain tripe; I am forced to draw one of the following conclusions:
People drawn to mushrooms are (in general):
1. intellectually inferior.
2. lazy, sloppy and undisciplined.
3. representative of a general downward slope.
4. were OK once, but are now fucked up by drug abuse.
5. escape artists and dreamers with no real life.
Note: this post does not refer to you, but the other guy.
Well, I know you weren't talking about me because I don't do mushrooms. Whew!
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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ergot
MydriasicVisionary
Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 685
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Frog]
#2165213 - 12/06/03 08:28 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah, compare the 50s to the 60s and the American view on practically everything, and you'll see extremely drastic differences and more open-mindedness.
-------------------- "Remain a learner, never become a knower." - Osho
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HagbardCeline
Student-Teacher-Student-Teacher


Registered: 05/10/03
Posts: 10,026
Loc: Overjoyed, at the bottom ...
Last seen: 18 days, 2 hours
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2165234 - 12/06/03 08:38 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
nor even doing basic research on the subject matter.
Does this mean you now accept my definition of research? I will find the thread if you don't remember. To the subject matter at hand though. I agree that it seems many on here blindly follow some non-sensical ideas, while they lambaste others. But as was said before, this is sentiment shared by many who never try mind altering substances. I think that it may be misguided to believe that mushrooms instill any kind of enlightment, or progessive change in thinking. When I had my ego loss experience, I fealt as if the whole world had been revealed to me, and it all made sense. I thought that my life would take on a new exuberance. But when I woke the next day, all the ideas seemed to escape me, and I was back to the same old habits. So either these ideas are only known while under the influence, or the drugs trick our perception to believing that we have discovered a revolutionary way of thinking. As for the logical fallicies, it think this has much to do with what the person wants. If someone believes something, it is hard for them to accept the unsoundness of their ideas. Edit - It wasn't actually my defintion though.
-------------------- I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine
Edited by HagbardCeline (12/06/03 08:41 PM)
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Jellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2165253 - 12/06/03 08:48 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
A temporary change, but where did it lead on an evolutionary / societal l evel?
Here we are again in Iraq losing American lives as well as Iraqi citizens, pouring in billions of dollars better spent on constructive endeavors, with no end in sight. Looks like Vietnam all over again to me.
What about the drug war? Worse than ever. Corporate fraud? An all time high. On and on
True, but you can't blame that on the sixties generation. They tried; the fact is they were outnumbered by millions of knuckle-dragging citizens dealing a death blow to many of their societal changes. Yet many societal changes survived. We have a more tolerant, open society than before. I credit much of that change to the mind expansion of the sixties.
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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trendal
J♠


Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2165321 - 12/06/03 09:12 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Increased awareness is NOT congruent with sloppy thinking and presentation.
I entirely agree with you here
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Jellric]
#2165342 - 12/06/03 09:21 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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True, but you can't blame that on the sixties generation. I did not blame that generation; only pointed out that massive psychedelic usage did not lead to any long-term change.
We have a more tolerant, open society than before. Record numbers of people in prison per capita is not indicative of greater tolerance.
The civil rights movement was well underway before Tim Leary and company made their presence known. MLK, JFK and other powerful transformers were not known to be into mind-expanding drugs.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2165356 - 12/06/03 09:30 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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"Record numbers of people in prison per capita is not indicative of greater tolerance." c'mon...that is not a decent response. greater tolerance in new ideas is what was obviously meant.
-------------------- "...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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Frog
Warrior


Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 11 years, 12 days
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Quote:
When I had my ego loss experience, I fealt as if the whole world had been revealed to me, and it all made sense. I thought that my life would take on a new exuberance.
But when I woke the next day, all the ideas seemed to escape me, and I was back to the same old habits.
So either these ideas are only known while under the influence, or the drugs trick our perception to believing that we have discovered a revolutionary way of thinking.
I have had this happen, too. Why not write the ideas down while having them, and then at least the next day, you still have them, on paper, so that you don't forget them?
Also, is it laziness that we don't put our ideas into effect? Or is it really just drugs or whatever?
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Viaggio]
#2165406 - 12/06/03 10:01 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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greater tolerance in new ideas is what was obviously meant.
Can you be a little more vague?
There was massive war protest in the 60s. In the last few years there was very little public protest of the war. It became practically un-American to even voice your opinion. I have an advantage over many of the younger ones here in having seen the decades-long downward spiral toward increased facism first-hand. (BTW - I served my country honorably in the Vietnam Era.)
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The proof is in the pudding.
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!


Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2165408 - 12/06/03 10:02 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
MLK, JFK and other powerful transformers were not known to be into mind-expanding drugs.
Actually, I've heard some speculation that says otherwise regarding JFK.
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  "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: silversoul7]
#2165417 - 12/06/03 10:07 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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"Can you be a little more vague?"
culture is much more diverse and continues to be. remember when diversity was less tolerated? most of our toleration has grown into acceptance. and this growth is just a piece of society's evolution.
-------------------- "...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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Jellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2165433 - 12/06/03 10:12 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I did not blame that generation; only pointed out that massive psychedelic usage did not lead to any long-term change. Try making drug testing mandatory for employees in Silicon valley. Innovation in the computer industry will come to a grinding halt. Does innovation in computer technology in our lives represent "long-term change"? The civil rights movement was well underway before Tim Leary and company made their presence known. It only exploded when many people began taking mind-exanding drugs. MLK, JFK and other powerful transformers were not known to be into mind-expanding drugs. No, but their supporters sure were! You can't make changes from above without support from below.
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Viaggio]
#2165440 - 12/06/03 10:16 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Remember when diversity was less tolerated?
Homosexuality is now more tolerated, but that is due to strong political unity sparked by AIDs and hate crimes. It had NOTHING to do with LSD, et al.
While opportunities for blacks and hispanics has increased, once again due mostly to political clout, I have personally noticed an upsurge in the racial divide in some arenas.
There is no social marker that shows that increased promiscuity and visual sexaul display has been beneficial to society (frat boys on spring break notwithstanding ) Teen pregnancy, abortion, and STDs are at near record-high levels.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Zero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2165443 - 12/06/03 10:17 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Riddlez?
is swami trying to counter act the devolution that he preposes is caused by people who seem to take mushrooms and claim evolution? If he is not, would that swami, still be a swami of the mushroom community?
-------------------- What?
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trendal
J♠


Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2165445 - 12/06/03 10:20 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I did not blame that generation; only pointed out that massive psychedelic usage did not lead to any long-term change.
How can you say or think that such a large-scale and long-term (in human scale) event hasn't had an effect? Or continues to have an effect?
The "psychedelic revolution" had a lasting effect, like everything else in history. A butterfly flaps its wings in Africa...and a hurrican hits the East Coast. Even the smallest parts have a lasting effect.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: trendal]
#2165491 - 12/06/03 10:48 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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"Homosexuality is now more tolerated, but that is due to strong political unity sparked by AIDs and hate crimes. It had NOTHING to do with LSD, et al..." what does strong political unity mean? firstly, homosexuality is near acceptance due to open and opened minds. secondly, racial issues in society is in continual repair...like evolution, it is something that occurs gradually (but by diversity, i was actually weffering to ideas and perspectives). true, there is no direct correlation of LSD and acceptance of gays, but the psychadelic revolution is very much responsible for new perspectives. we can alter our conciousness for a reason...a change of perspective. and i am a firm believer that this is part of our next step in evolution.
-------------------- "...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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DJHenyo
HankBus2004
Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 4
Loc: NY
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2165499 - 12/06/03 10:54 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I totally agree with Swami in that there seems to be a very large percentage of incoherent babblers on this forum. This percentage does appear to be larger than the general populace of developed countries (canada notwithstanding).
I have done shrooms once and tried other drugs on limited occasions. I think the reason for most of the posting here being rather hard to follow and generally shallow is not the use of shrooms but rather other drugs. After trying marijuana the few times I have my memory has never been the same. I could tell a slight difference after the very first time. The same goes for alcohol, albeit to a far lesser extent. I am also under the impression that the majority of memebers on this forum were possesing a very low comprehension of proper english to begin with. The drugs may add to the problem, but they are not the cause.
The real problem that has lead to Swami obviously being annoyed with the ridiculous number of inane posters here is that generally the people getting into this stuff are affected by drug use in general, not that of shrooms.
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Swami]
#2165513 - 12/06/03 10:59 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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"...there seems to be a very large percentage of incoherent babblers on this forum...the majority of memebers on this forum were possesing a very low comprehension of proper english to begin with..."
uh, won't argue with ya  but like i said before...some people have a harder time than others understanding the change in perspective that entheogens (can) cause. some people ignore it. some explore it. exploration of conciousness will lead to some sort of discovery, some sort of growth.
-------------------- "...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Mushrooms and Devolution [Re: Jellric]
#2165662 - 12/07/03 12:40 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Does innovation in computer technology in our lives represent "long-term change"?
Naturally it does, but where are your references? I lived and worked in Silicon Valley for 18 years and was totally drug free during that era while making significant contributions.
There were no serious drugs at Bell Labs when the transistor was developed nor television nor radio nor the car nor airplane. Yet suddenly drugs ARE NECESSARY for advanced thinking and creating? Please show your data to back up your hypothesis.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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