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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: rxb]
    #21629958 - 05/03/15 12:33 PM (9 years, 17 days ago)

I'm really not being mean.  I value freedom of speech very highly.  Far more than I would value campaign finance reform.  If, however, there were a way to get both, I'd be on board all the way.

Unfortunatly, I've yet to hear a plan that would accomplish the goals of campaign finance reform without completely gutting the First Amendment such that all of us can be punished for speech.  That's not acceptable to me, and that's not a country I want to live in.

I hate corruption, and I have proposed several things that would reduce the effect of money in elections and its corruptive effect, but I don't support the simplistic and idealistic notion that we can somehow just pass a law and end corruption.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: rxb]
    #21629989 - 05/03/15 12:40 PM (9 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
and still doesnt stop the fact that you should stop being mean.

i mean you admit that fal wants to find a solution.

and you admit that you want him to give up because its pointless.

all thats left is to admit you are being mean about it.

and he is on the moral upside.




Even when I have seen him get mean, he is usually responding to the dumb and the clueless. 

I mean, give him a break, he's a fucking lawyer for chris' sake. LOL.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
    #21630196 - 05/03/15 01:42 PM (9 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I hate corruption, and I have proposed several things that would reduce the effect of money in elections and its corruptive effect, but I don't support the simplistic and idealistic notion that we can somehow just pass a law and end corruption.




I'm curious, what kind of things do you propose we can do?

And if limiting money is limiting speech (which I can see to be the case), then isn't limiting campaign donations a limit on speech? But we already do that, don't we?


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OfflinerxbS
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21630234 - 05/03/15 01:52 PM (9 years, 17 days ago)

what you said was

Quote:

Enlil said:
The First Amendment doesn't give you a right to express your desires.  Donating money to feed someone isn't speech, and the first amendment isn't implicated.  Your argument completely invalid and you should give it up and find something with a better footing.




and it does. actions not involving speech... are symbolic speech and have been rules as such. in 1971, in 1973... and at other times by the supreme court.

spending money on snowden supporting him, in in SO many ways free speech. and it can be speech in MANY different ways.

and maybe you have some pedantic meandering around that fact, and its even plausible (because there are cases) that you can say that symbolic speech is handled differently... and in the case of this discussion (campaign contributions)...it probably SHOULD Be...but its a pretty tricky situation.

and im surprised that any lawyer (that didnt have a case riding on it) would say any differently..


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[quote]Enlil said:
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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: rxb]
    #21630252 - 05/03/15 01:56 PM (9 years, 17 days ago)

Donating money to Snowden is going to feed and house him.  It's not speech in any way.  It isn't symbolic either.  You should stick to what you know...whatever that is.


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OfflinerxbS
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
    #21630262 - 05/03/15 01:58 PM (9 years, 17 days ago)

you cant prove what the donation would go to.

thats absurd. i dont actually agree that feeding someone isnt an expression of you wanting that person to stay healthy and happy tho.


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[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]

Edited by rxb (05/03/15 02:00 PM)

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21630311 - 05/03/15 02:08 PM (9 years, 17 days ago)

I have suggested laws that would make the politicians more reactive to the public and make their process more transparent. 

First, I would create a requirement for all senators and representatives to inform their constituencies about every bill presented to them for vote and their reasoning for why they voted a particular way on that bill.  Most people won't read this, but the opposition surely will, and with a free-flowing media in place, anything untoward would become well known.

Second, I would make full disclosure of all business relationships and/or conflicts of interest, past and present, required by all candidates and incumbents.  This would be an ongoing requirement.  Again, the opposition will be reading and will be able to expose issues,

Both of the above would be required to be searchable on a user-friendly web-database, so that any voter in the country can do his/her research.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: rxb]
    #21630319 - 05/03/15 02:09 PM (9 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
you cant prove what the donation would go to.

thats absurd. i dont actually agree that feeding someone isnt an expression of you wanting that person to stay healthy and happy tho.



That isn't covered by the first.  Never has been.  You seem to think that everything is expression.  That's fine and all, but that's not how the First has ever been interpreted.


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OfflinerxbS
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
    #21630338 - 05/03/15 02:13 PM (9 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

First, I would create a requirement for all senators and representatives to inform their constituencies about every bill presented to them for vote and their reasoning for why they voted a particular way on that bill.  Most people won't read this, but the opposition surely will, and with a free-flowing media in place, anything untoward would become well known.




people in government lie regularly. its kind of a character development point. what makes you think they would be honest.

Quote:

Second, I would make full disclosure of all business relationships and/or conflicts of interest, past and present, required by all candidates and incumbents.  This would be an ongoing requirement.  Again, the opposition will be reading and will be able to expose issues,




in fact the cdc has this policy today, as many as 80% simply never fill out the forms. what makes you think that politicians will do better than doctors as being honest and upfront?


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[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]

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OfflinerxbS
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
    #21630344 - 05/03/15 02:14 PM (9 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

rxb said:
you cant prove what the donation would go to.

thats absurd. i dont actually agree that feeding someone isnt an expression of you wanting that person to stay healthy and happy tho.



That isn't covered by the first.  Never has been.  You seem to think that everything is expression.  That's fine and all, but that's not how the First has ever been interpreted.




yeah... if he isnt political... then gifts arent restricted.

if he is political... the gifts are speech.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: rxb]
    #21630350 - 05/03/15 02:16 PM (9 years, 17 days ago)

People can't be political or not political.  What are you even talking about?  And why are you derailing this thread with a discussion from another thread?  Bump the other one if you want to discuss it more.


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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: rxb]
    #21630354 - 05/03/15 02:17 PM (9 years, 17 days ago)

for example i'd happily give you a gift of $9,999 to never post on the shroomery again, on this or any other account...

you could see it as a gift... an exchange... or as an expression.


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[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: rxb]
    #21630357 - 05/03/15 02:18 PM (9 years, 17 days ago)

I'm flattered to have you that annoyed.  Let me know when it goes above $50k.


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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
    #21630364 - 05/03/15 02:19 PM (9 years, 17 days ago)

thats like 1/5 of a year ... im not sure i believe you'd abide by the agreement that much...i trust you a trip to vegas worth.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: rxb]
    #21630370 - 05/03/15 02:21 PM (9 years, 17 days ago)

actually nah... id rather go to vegas.

you arent that bad just a mean fucker, who should be nicer.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]

Edited by rxb (05/03/15 02:22 PM)

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: rxb]
    #21630377 - 05/03/15 02:23 PM (9 years, 17 days ago)

Now that another lie of yours has been exposed, can we get back on topic and leave the snowden discussion to the snowden threads?


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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
    #21630384 - 05/03/15 02:24 PM (9 years, 17 days ago)

awe... did you get your feeling hurt?


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: rxb]
    #21630390 - 05/03/15 02:25 PM (9 years, 17 days ago)

its kind of lie what you are doing when you call me a liar.... you are being more misrepresentation than i am.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]

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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
    #21630531 - 05/03/15 02:58 PM (9 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I have suggested laws that would make the politicians more reactive to the public and make their process more transparent. 

First, I would create a requirement for all senators and representatives to inform their constituencies about every bill presented to them for vote and their reasoning for why they voted a particular way on that bill.  Most people won't read this, but the opposition surely will, and with a free-flowing media in place, anything untoward would become well known.

Second, I would make full disclosure of all business relationships and/or conflicts of interest, past and present, required by all candidates and incumbents.  This would be an ongoing requirement.  Again, the opposition will be reading and will be able to expose issues,

Both of the above would be required to be searchable on a user-friendly web-database, so that any voter in the country can do his/her research.




I would certainly be in favor of both of those. More transparency tends to be a good thing in my opinion.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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OfflinerxbS
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21630546 - 05/03/15 03:01 PM (9 years, 17 days ago)

i would love to see both those things actually happen.

i think obama said he was going to do both those things when he campaigned.

but i've not see him acomplish it.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]

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