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Invisibleafoaf
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
the great political issue of our times
    #2162328 - 12/05/03 06:42 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

The great political issue of our times is not liberalism versus
conservatism, or capitalism versus socialism, but Statism?the belief
that government is inherently superior to the citizenry, that progress
consists of extending the realm of compulsion, that vesting more
arbitrary power in government officials will make the people happy?
eventually.

-James Bovard


http://prfamerica.org/ViewThruDelusion.html

I love this guy.

his latest book is overwhelmingly informative and frightening.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: the great political issue of our times [Re: afoaf]
    #2162422 - 12/05/03 07:14 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

:thumbup: Thanks, I like what he has to say.

"Trusting governments nowadays means splitting humanity into two classes: those who can be trusted with power to run other people's lives, and those who cannot even be trusted to run their own lives."

"Because there can be no level playing field between the citizen and the State, every expansion of the State means increased subjugation of the citizen."

"We need to expect less from government and more from humanity. It is not cynical to have more faith in freedom than in subjugation. It is not cynical to have more faith in individuals vested with rights than in bureaucrats armed with power. It is not cynical to suspect that governments that have cheated so often in the past may not be dealing straight today."
 


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: the great political issue of our times [Re: Autonomous]
    #2162522 - 12/05/03 07:55 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

get Tyranny and Terror, his latest book.

really, anything by this guy is good.

shit make me clench my teeth when I
read it...makes my skin crawl with total
disgust.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: the great political issue of our times [Re: afoaf]
    #2165913 - 12/07/03 07:08 AM (13 years, 1 day ago)

first..we need to get the wordage straight: the authour uses the words "state" and "government" interchangeably to mean "those who can be trusted with power to run other ppl's lives" and "who are above the law"...those individuals..and the global corporations they represent..are the financial oligarchy..the government is for the most part their hit-squad (or..if you prefer..a private monopoly that sells mercenary services to the FO)..and the state is the FO and the government combined...

what the authour calls "statism" is actually biological determinism..the belief that some individuals..of whatever species..are biologically superior to others..and that the sole determinant of biological superiority is the ability to seize ("secure"..in the language of the FO) resources...scientific evidence or the lack thereof..is irrelevant...this dogma is prolly the most deeply embedded in American mass culture..going at least as far back as Herbert Spencer...

as a direct result..most Americans view the power of the financial oligarchy not as a threat to liberty..but rather as liberty itself...these individuals are viewed as icons of the opportnity America has to offer..despite them being common gangsters in reality...

for a variety of reasons..drug use is viewed as an infringement on this "inalienable right" (ie the property rights of the FO..i know that doesnt make much sense..but it is the way Americans think)..as such..the examples the authour uses regarding property seizures are merely being executed in the interests of other..larger..owners..which..by this twisted logic..translates directly into "defending freedom"...

and that..in a nutshell..is statism...what makes it different in America..is that it originates from the private sector..rather than government..but with the same results [The Nation]...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Preemptive Response from LDL [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2165916 - 12/07/03 07:14 AM (13 years, 1 day ago)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


..what a dork...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Preemptive Response from LDL [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2166096 - 12/07/03 10:35 AM (13 years, 21 hours ago)

if you can't laugh at yourself...then what can you?


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,720
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: the great political issue of our times [Re: afoaf]
    #2166628 - 12/07/03 03:48 PM (13 years, 15 hours ago)

The greatest political issue of our times is the picture of Bush holding the turkey, at least judging by the howls of outrage in this forum that were generated by that picture.

Good thing there's no real problems in the world.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: the great political issue of our times [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2166965 - 12/07/03 06:21 PM (13 years, 13 hours ago)

Quote:

Good thing there's no real problems in the world.



I seem to remember some sort of Patriot Act...and the Homeland Security Act...

Ah, nevermind.  It's not important, as long as lds gets his tax cuts. :rolleyes:


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: the great political issue of our times [Re: silversoul7]
    #2169065 - 12/08/03 03:06 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

best of a bad choice

BEST OF A BAD CHOICEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!111```


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: the great political issue of our times [Re: afoaf]
    #2169239 - 12/08/03 05:25 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

So, you'd vote for the worst of two bad choices then?

Interesting AND informative.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Registered: 04/17/03
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Re: the great political issue of our times [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2170906 - 12/10/03 09:18 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

what the authour calls "statism" is actually biological determinism..the belief that some individuals..of whatever species..are biologically superior to others




Its not a belief its a fact...


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The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: the great political issue of our times [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #2170912 - 12/10/03 09:33 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

st0nedphucker said:
Quote:

what the authour calls "statism" is actually biological determinism..the belief that some individuals..of whatever species..are biologically superior to others




Its not a belief its a fact...



Really? And how do you determine such "superiority"? Intelligence? Physical prowess?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: the great political issue of our times [Re: silversoul7]
    #2170920 - 12/10/03 09:53 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

It varies from species to species, you could even begin to take into account an individuals immune system. However perhaps the use of the word superior is questionable.

Survival of the fittest my friend

By denying it occurs, you are choosing to ignore nature...


--------------------
The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: the great political issue of our times [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #2170931 - 12/10/03 10:41 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I see.  I guess I was a little quick to jump on you for that.  I apologize.  I've been up all night working on an 8-page term paper on the causes of racism in America, and having read and written the word "superiority" so many times throughout the night, seeing it written here on the message board in that context set off an alarm inside my head.

You are right.  Some individuals probably do have genes which make them more fit for survival and reproduction.  However, Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection is not a proven scientific fact(tho evolution itself is).  Of course, it does have the most widespread acceptance among the scientific community, and seems fairly consistent with observable phenomenon.  On the other hand, if I am to believe in survival of the fittest, then I am forced to presume that stupidity makes us better equipped for survival, since there are so many of them, and they seem to be breeding rather rapidly. :smirk:


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: the great political issue of our times [Re: silversoul7]
    #2170934 - 12/10/03 10:51 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

LOL touch? :wink:


--------------------
The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Registered: 06/30/03
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Re: the great political issue of our times [Re: silversoul7]
    #2174529 - 12/13/03 12:37 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
  if I am to believe in survival of the fittest, then I am forced to presume that stupidity makes us better equipped for survival, since there are so many of them, and they seem to be breeding rather rapidly. :smirk:




That would be the effect of socio-cultural institutions on evolution...  or perhaps I should say devolution... :frown:

It seems that our society is counter-conducive to intelligence


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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