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Offlinelowbrow
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #21617486 - 04/30/15 12:59 PM (9 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Mr. Alien said:


There is a lot of scientist that believe in god. But when they go into the laboratory they have to become atheists. When they turn the knobs or whatever they don't believe there is a magical force or angel affecting the results of the experiment . If they believe outside the laboratory it's good.. the minute they take their religious shit into the laboratory they stop being good scientists.





Science is the study of cold hard facts, it has nothing to do with the definition of athiesm.  Just because, hypothetically, somebody could become an atheist because of science does not connect them, they are mutually exclusive from each other.


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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..

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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: lowbrow]
    #21617492 - 04/30/15 01:01 PM (9 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

lowbrow said:
So are you saying that if somebody could actually prove the existence of God, you'd be in church by this Sunday?




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I'd be on my knees.





I would have question their claims but if the evidence is absolutely convincing i would be on my knees too. It would have to be something like looking at the telescope and see God and angels riding a galaxy or something of that sort.

Edited by Mr. Alien (04/30/15 01:29 PM)

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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: lowbrow]
    #21617518 - 04/30/15 01:10 PM (9 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

lowbrow said:
Quote:

Mr. Alien said:


There is a lot of scientist that believe in god. But when they go into the laboratory they have to become atheists. When they turn the knobs or whatever they don't believe there is a magical force or angel affecting the results of the experiment . If they believe outside the laboratory it's good.. the minute they take their religious shit into the laboratory they stop being good scientists.





Science is the study of cold hard facts, it has nothing to do with the definition of athiesm.  Just because, hypothetically, somebody could become an atheist because of science does not connect them, they are mutually exclusive from each other.





I never said that science have something to do with the definition of athism. I said religious scientists can believe in god outside the laboratory, inside the laboratory they have to stop thinking about god or they won't be good scientists. Back to the outside world they can continue believing in god if they want.

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Offlinelowbrow
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21617529 - 04/30/15 01:14 PM (9 years, 20 days ago)

You'd be the first one screaming repent on the street corner with a handful of Chick Pub. pamphlets, wouldn't you?
Quote:

Mr. Alien said:

I would have question their claims but if they are absolutely convincing i would be on my knees too. It would have to be something like looking at the telescope and see God and angels riding a galaxy or something of that sort.




I notice that atheists like to take a creationist view of religion when describing it.  Why is that?


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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..

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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: lowbrow]
    #21617554 - 04/30/15 01:22 PM (9 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

lowbrow said:
I notice that atheists like to take a creationist view of religion when describing it.  Why is that?




Most of christians are creationists :shrug:. I'm happy there isn't any vote yet for creationism in this poll, that was the purpose of this thread. Do you believe in creationism mate? In Adan and Eve? and that the earth is 10000 years old?

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21617599 - 04/30/15 01:36 PM (9 years, 20 days ago)

.

Edited by DieCommie (11/16/16 10:06 AM)

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Invisiblemillzy
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: Revok]
    #21617608 - 04/30/15 01:40 PM (9 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

KafkasDog said:
the only theistic option offered represents a limited interoperation of the the whole of Judeo-Christian subset of tenets. This ignores the countless other options where belief in a deity may exist outside these narrow confines.




it also leaves out the choice for agnosticism. i went with the middle because i don't identify as either atheist or fundamentalist christian, but i'm firmly rooted in the agnostic camp. i certainly have my beliefs about if there is a god and what he would be like if he existed, but ultimately i am uncomfortable with allowing those beliefs to supplant my worldview.


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I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: DieCommie]
    #21617613 - 04/30/15 01:41 PM (9 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Atheism is a religion in the sense that the non-existence of god cannot be proven and must be accepted on faith.




On the surface that sounds like solid reasoning.  But when you actually consider the philosophy of science and how modern science works it doesn't hold up.  Its a false dichotomy and too high of a bar to set.

In science, nothing is ever proven.  Ill repeat that because its important, in science nothing is ever proven.  So of course under the framework of science one cannot prove the non-existence of god.  Nor can one prove the existence of god.  Nor can one prove the existence of the giant squid.  Nor can one prove the non-existence of bigfoot.  Since we can't prove any of this stuff, why have an expectation that we can prove something with respect to god? 

All proofs rely on assumptions to be valid.  These assumptions are usually called postulates (or axioms in math).  But unlike math, in science all postulates are assumed in lieu of contradictory evidence.  Thus any thing that is claimed to be "proved" still has the possibility of being overturned at any moment by denying the postulate with new evidence.  So much for the proof...

So what does science do if it is unable to prove and will not accept baseless faith?  The answer lies in between those two extremes and its called evidence and all evidence does is suggest and imply conclusions, it doesn't prove them.  We use evidence to suggest that bigfoot doesn't exist.  We use evidence to suggest that the giant squid does exist.

Now you should be able to see that to be an atheist doesn't mean you have proven anything.  It means that the non-existence of god is tentatively concluded based on evidence.  If that makes one an agnostic then one must also admit they are agnostic on the existence of anything and everything, which waters down the word into meaninglessness.




:kaneclap:

In science I can believe in something with all my heart but the moment new evidence come out i disprove it and throw it away like if it was yesterday newspaper.

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: DieCommie]
    #21617615 - 04/30/15 01:41 PM (9 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Atheism is a religion in the sense that the non-existence of god cannot be proven and must be accepted on faith.




On the surface that sounds like solid reasoning.  But when you actually consider the philosophy of science and how modern science works it doesn't hold up.  Its a false dichotomy and too high of a bar to set.

In science, nothing is ever proven.  Ill repeat that because its important, in science nothing is ever proven.  So of course under the framework of science one cannot prove the non-existence of god.  Nor can one prove the existence of god.  Nor can one prove the existence of the giant squid.  Nor can one prove the non-existence of bigfoot.  Since we can't prove any of this stuff, why have an expectation that we can prove something with respect to god? 

All proofs rely on assumptions to be valid.  These assumptions are usually called postulates (or axioms in math).  But unlike math, in science all postulates are assumed in lieu of contradictory evidence.  Thus any thing that is claimed to be "proved" still has the possibility of being overturned at any moment by denying the postulate with new evidence.  So much for the proof...

So what does science do if it is unable to prove and will not accept baseless faith?  The answer lies in between those two extremes and its called evidence and all evidence does is suggest and imply conclusions, it doesn't prove them.  We use evidence to suggest that bigfoot doesn't exist.  We use evidence to suggest that the giant squid does exist.

Now you should be able to see that to be an atheist doesn't mean you have proven anything.  It means that the non-existence of god is tentatively concluded based on evidence.  If that makes one an agnostic then one must also admit they are agnostic on the existence of anything and everything, which waters down the word into meaninglessness.



ta-da!

definitely couldn't have said it better myself.

all we do is assume. it's a world of words. evidence only points to conclusions; it doesn't actualize anything. words do, however, if only temporarily. they actualize beliefs, which is what we base our actions and thoughts on.

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OfflineHaidan26
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Registered: 04/30/15
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: DieCommie]
    #21617619 - 04/30/15 01:42 PM (9 years, 20 days ago)

Everyone should believe in god in one way or another, but not in religious way... every religion today gone totally wrong way from true ideology. thats just my opinion

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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: Haidan26]
    #21617625 - 04/30/15 01:43 PM (9 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Haidan26 said:
Everyone should believe in god in one way or another




Why?

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: DieCommie]
    #21617645 - 04/30/15 01:49 PM (9 years, 20 days ago)

I do not know why people think nothing is ever proven in science.  They prove shit all the time.  DNA is proven to be the mechanism by which we reproduce.  The brain is proven to be the organ that has thoughts.  These are not hypotheses.  They are facts and scientists has proven them.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21617663 - 04/30/15 01:55 PM (9 years, 20 days ago)

well, i don't think anyone knows how or why, as of yet. :tunnel:

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21617677 - 04/30/15 01:58 PM (9 years, 20 days ago)

How what?  Why is not a science issue.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21617704 - 04/30/15 02:08 PM (9 years, 20 days ago)

hows: how was DNA "produced"?

how does the brain "think"?

and why isn't a science issue? i don't know, i think it could very well be. why not? finding the reasons why the brain thinks as opposed to just having a brain that functions only mechanistically, providing a instinctual repertoire, rather than the thinking brain that we have, with which we can develop more complex thoughts and reasoning. that's one example, i think.

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OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21617750 - 04/30/15 02:21 PM (9 years, 20 days ago)

Let the idiots believe in their fairy tails... You won't deprogram them anyway. Arguing with them is a waste of time.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: Patlal]
    #21617779 - 04/30/15 02:30 PM (9 years, 20 days ago)

agnosticism is just simply a more realistic, and more intelligent position.

sorry.

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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21617822 - 04/30/15 02:42 PM (9 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
agnosticism is just simply a more realistic, and more intelligent position.

sorry.




True.

I called myself an atheist  because most people know what it is, but in truth I am 99.9999% atheist and 0.00001% agnostic.

I've only put 5 decimal points to make it easier to write, but the thuth is I am Infinity - 1 atheistic, that -1 being agnostic


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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21617824 - 04/30/15 02:42 PM (9 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
agnosticism is just simply a more realistic, and more intelligent position.

sorry.




No it's not. I'm an atheist and sometimes i give agnostic answers. When they ask if i can prove that god not exist i.e. That doesn't convert me into an agnostic. I deeply know god doesn't exist.

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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: Atheism vs religion poll discussion. [Re: Patlal]
    #21617835 - 04/30/15 02:45 PM (9 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
agnosticism is just simply a more realistic, and more intelligent position.

sorry.




True.

I called myself an atheist  because most people know what it is, but in truth I am 99.9999% atheist and 0.00001% agnostic.

I've only put 5 decimal points to make it easier to write, but the thuth is I am Infinity - 1 atheistic, that -1 being agnostic





Agreed. If you are 100% agnostic, well you are just a coward.

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