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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: What is a Political Ad? [Re: psyconaught]
    #21629748 - 05/03/15 11:45 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

But people who read journalism are "actively seeking" it.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: What is a Political Ad? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21629820 - 05/03/15 12:04 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

That doesnt address my scenario though. The TIMES would still be considered a political ad under your definition if it had a political cover and just one person was looking for something else and happened to see it.


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Think for yourself, question authority

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: What is a Political Ad? [Re: psyconaught]
    #21630495 - 05/03/15 02:51 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

That's why I changed the definition above.  You don't put the Times on your shelf "for the purpose of making a political statement".


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Posts: 2,549
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Re: What is a Political Ad? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21630537 - 05/03/15 03:00 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
That's why I changed the definition above.  You don't put the Times on your shelf "for the purpose of making a political statement".




This is still a fairly vague statement though. How do you determine if they are trying to make a political statement or not?


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: What is a Political Ad? [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21630609 - 05/03/15 03:16 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
This is still a fairly vague statement though. How do you determine if they are trying to make a political statement or not?



The Times might be making a political statement by putting something on their cover, but if the cover is simply visible because it's sitting on a shelf of a News Stand, that's not a political statement.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Posts: 2,549
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Re: What is a Political Ad? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21630620 - 05/03/15 03:18 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
The Times might be making a political statement by putting something on their cover, but if the cover is simply visible because it's sitting on a shelf of a News Stand, that's not a political statement.




The current iteration of your definition says "if a political content is put in front of people for the purpose of making a political statement..."

How can you determine for what reason content was put in front of people? The Times could put something on their cover, knowing full well that lots of people will see it and be affected by it, and still claim that they didn't do it for the purpose of making a political statement.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: What is a Political Ad? [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21630970 - 05/03/15 05:16 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Agreed, but the Times can make a political statement on their cover because they're allowed to determine the content of their own paper.  The question is whether the Times pays to have their content displayed on a store shelf for the purpose of making a political statement.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
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Re: What is a Political Ad? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21631141 - 05/03/15 06:02 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Exactly, the Times has to pay to make and distribute the content. So I'm a little confused; why does that not fall under your definition as a political advertisement?


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: What is a Political Ad? [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21631543 - 05/03/15 07:44 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Exactly, the Times has to pay to make and distribute the content. So I'm a little confused; why does that not fall under your definition as a political advertisement?



Yes, they pay to make and distribute the content, but the store owner is the one who displays it in order to sell it.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
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Re: What is a Political Ad? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21631684 - 05/03/15 08:13 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

So as long as you're not the one physically displaying the content, it isn't an ad?


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: What is a Political Ad? [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21632924 - 05/04/15 12:50 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
So as long as you're not the one physically displaying the content, it isn't an ad?



It depends if you're being paid to display it to make a political statement, or if you're displaying it to sell a product.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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InvisibleBoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
Re: What is a Political Ad? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21637401 - 05/04/15 10:33 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

I don't think that the latest iteration of your test adequately describes that. It just says that if content is put in front of people for the purpose of making a political statement, but I don't see any distinction as to who puts the content in front of people. If the Times, knowing full well that their content will be broadly displayed, chooses to make a political statement, I believe they fall under individual contribution limits per your definition.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: What is a Political Ad? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21638117 - 05/05/15 04:05 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

This whole idea is one fucked-up, totalitarian idea.  Here is at least one of the thing that I suggest is BAD:

1)  The government create an agency to monitor this.
2) It will have a Czar and tens of thousands of NON-ELECTED Decision makers in it.
3)  Their job will be to screen all advertisements to ensure that funny stuffWe isn't going on.
4) They will gain control and regulation on deciding what isn't and isn't 'Good' in term of political advertiements and speech.
5 One or the other parties gains control sufficiently to run the agency.
6  What ends up being a 'political advertisement'is what some faceless person at the agency decides.
7  Eventually, what happens, is they begin to limit advertising/ideas/ etc that oppose their political ideology.
8  their power morphs into control of books, media, etc, at every point in the chain.

Welcome to Faranheit 451.

Here's how I see your viewpoint on a lot of things FAL:

'The Government' is corrupted by money.  The corruption causes the government to loot the treasury for for their friends in industry.

So, we have a 'henhouse' of political money, that is abused by politicians.....

So to fix the problem, we have more politicians and agencies, and other government people to write regulations and control it. 

So, in order to protect the henhouse from the 'Government Wolves' lets put the control of the henhouse completely in their hands, and give them more power--Let's put the wolves in charge of guarding the henhouse.  Yes.  I'm sure that's the answer.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: What is a Political Ad? [Re: starfire_xes]
    #21641192 - 05/05/15 07:55 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
This whole idea is one fucked-up, totalitarian idea.  Here is at least one of the thing that I suggest is BAD:

1)  The government create an agency to monitor this.
2) It will have a Czar and tens of thousands of NON-ELECTED Decision makers in it.
3)  Their job will be to screen all advertisements to ensure that funny stuffWe isn't going on.
4) They will gain control and regulation on deciding what isn't and isn't 'Good' in term of political advertiements and speech.
5 One or the other parties gains control sufficiently to run the agency.
6  What ends up being a 'political advertisement'is what some faceless person at the agency decides.
7  Eventually, what happens, is they begin to limit advertising/ideas/ etc that oppose their political ideology.
8  their power morphs into control of books, media, etc, at every point in the chain.

Welcome to Faranheit 451.



You're right, that is a really BAD idea.  :smirk:

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Here's how I see your viewpoint on a lot of things FAL:

'The Government' is corrupted by money.  The corruption causes the government to loot the treasury for their friends in industry.

So, we have a 'henhouse' of political money, that is abused by politicians.....



So far so good!  :thumbup:

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
So to fix the problem, we have more politicians and agencies, and other government people to write regulations and control it. 



No, I'm just saying we don't allow big money in politics.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: What is a Political Ad? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21641207 - 05/05/15 07:58 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

I'm updating the OP to revert back to a statement that didn't have any show-stopping arguments against it:

Quote:

If a political statement is put in front of people, a majority of whom aren’t actively seeking it, then  the statement is subject to individual contribution limits.  If a political statement is put in front of people, a majority of whom are actively seeking it, then it is not subject to individual contribution limits, unless a 3rd party pays to dictate the content.




--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: What is a Political Ad? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21644125 - 05/06/15 01:19 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

What about ads for shows that make political statements? Can fox news purchase ad space on other networks?


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: What is a Political Ad? [Re: psyconaught]
    #21644247 - 05/06/15 02:05 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
What about ads for shows that make political statements? Can fox news purchase ad space on other networks?



I'm curious what you think the answer is based on the test in the OP?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: What is a Political Ad? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21644497 - 05/06/15 03:15 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
It will never fly, simply for the reason that the government has a substantial interest in it.

It is easy to see why.  The government is restricting in this case free speech on something it has a large interest in. 

That's the kind of thing Totalitarian Governments do.



Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton both said they are ready to Amend the Constitution to limit big money in politics.  Have any Republicans taken that position yet?  :shrug:

Perhaps we know who the totalitarians are.



Yeah.  We do know.  You, Hillary and Bernie.

When you agree to shut down the NY Times I will accept shutting anybody else up.  Actually, I won't.  I was being facetious.  More speech, not less, Benito.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: What is a Political Ad? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21644523 - 05/06/15 03:23 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
But people who read journalism are "actively seeking" it.




This stupid shit again?  Anybody who reads or watches any TV show about anything is actively seeking it.  If there is a political ad on TV or in a newspaper you don't have to read it.  this is one of the all time stupidest arguments I have ever read, by you or anybody else.  Nobody is forced to read any political ad anywhere.  Anybody who reads any political ad is actively seeking it.  This is just another excuse for your totalitarianism, Benito.

By the way, journalism", as you seem to believe it to be, is a myth.  They are all biased partisan hacks.  Every fucking one of them.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: What is a Political Ad? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21644545 - 05/06/15 03:29 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
What about ads for shows that make political statements? Can fox news purchase ad space on other networks?



I'm curious what you think the answer is based on the test in the OP?



i have no idea, hence me asking you.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority

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