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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21611292 - 04/28/15 10:30 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

I don't know what you mean by "pushing"...

"spokesman" will produce the editorial.  It will be about 30 seconds long.

"sponsor" will sponsor the editorial by advertising their products before or after the editorial airs...just like any other program.

Sponsor is paying to air the editorial, but that doesn't make the editorial an advertisement, just like a sponsor pays to air reruns of "friends", but that doesn't make friends an advertisement.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
    #21611321 - 04/28/15 10:40 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
"sponsor" will sponsor the editorial by advertising their products before or after the editorial airs...just like any other program.



If I understand correctly, you're saying the sponsor will only pay for an ad on the condition that the station also plays a specific political editorial required by the sponsor?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21611327 - 04/28/15 10:42 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

Yeah...just like with any show.  Sponsors always choose what the ad will be attached to.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
    #21611361 - 04/28/15 10:54 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

If someone is paying to dictate the programming content, that seems like an ad to me.  Wouldn't you agree?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21611387 - 04/28/15 11:04 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

Then almost every show on TV is an advertisement.  Sponsors often have a great deal of control over the content of tv programming, including script/casting changes.  In syndication deals, sponsors often pick and choose which episodes will air.  I don't see how this is any different.


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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
    #21611489 - 04/28/15 11:44 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Then almost every show on TV is an advertisement.  Sponsors often have a great deal of control over the content of tv programming, including script/casting changes.  In syndication deals, sponsors often pick and choose which episodes will air.  I don't see how this is any different.




It would be an advertisement, because no tv network would put the koch brothers' nonsense up for free, and label it an 'editorial', and disguise it among ads. The koch brothers would have to pay them to play these games. The koch brothers wouldnt receive any money from the 'editorial', and therefore they're not doing it for economic gain, but for political gain. It comes out of their paid ad limit.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21611499 - 04/28/15 11:46 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

TV networks would sell their own children to get a sponsor, what are you talking about?  TV networks routinely allow sponsors to have a great deal of control over content.  This isn't anything new.  If control is the test, then almost everything on sponsored television is an advertisement.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21611525 - 04/28/15 11:52 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Then almost every show on TV is an advertisement.  Sponsors often have a great deal of control over the content of tv programming, including script/casting changes.  In syndication deals, sponsors often pick and choose which episodes will air.  I don't see how this is any different.



It would be an advertisement, because no tv network would put the koch brothers' nonsense up for free, and label it an 'editorial', and disguise it among ads. The koch brothers would have to pay them to play these games. The koch brothers wouldnt receive any money from the 'editorial', and therefore they're not doing it for economic gain, but for political gain. It comes out of their paid ad limit.



I agree.  Maybe Fox News would do it for free, but as discussed above, their viewership already like Koch, so it's not really an ad.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
    #21611540 - 04/28/15 11:56 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
TV networks would sell their own children to get a sponsor, what are you talking about?  TV networks routinely allow sponsors to have a great deal of control over content.  This isn't anything new.  If control is the test, then almost everything on sponsored television is an advertisement.



That's his point - if the sponsor is paying to dictate the content, then it's an ad.  If the sponsor would do it for free, then it's part of the programming.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21611552 - 04/29/15 12:01 AM (9 years, 22 days ago)

So almost everything on sponsored TV is an ad.  Sponsors almost always pay to dictate the content.


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
    #21611556 - 04/29/15 12:03 AM (9 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
So almost everything on sponsored TV is an ad.  Sponsors almost always pay to dictate the content.




Well, thats fine, everything can be an ad. If you're paying to dictate political ads, those payments are subject to the cap.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21611568 - 04/29/15 12:05 AM (9 years, 22 days ago)

I suppose sponsors should be careful on which things they wish to dictate and which things they do not. If there is a spending limit on paying for political speech, then they are subject to it if they wish to dictate political speech on broadcasting stations.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21611569 - 04/29/15 12:05 AM (9 years, 22 days ago)

So, do we all agree that almost all of television, a good portion of magazine articles, and a good portion of newspaper articles are advertisements under this definition?


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
    #21611578 - 04/29/15 12:09 AM (9 years, 22 days ago)

If they wish to use their sponsorship to dictate political speech, then they are subject to the cap. I say, any political speech that is sponsored is subject to the cap.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21611585 - 04/29/15 12:10 AM (9 years, 22 days ago)

Is that a yes?


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
    #21611588 - 04/29/15 12:12 AM (9 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
So, do we all agree that almost all of television, a good portion of magazine articles, and a good portion of newspaper articles are advertisements under this definition?




No, they are not advertisement, they are a product being sold. They are actually advertised for!


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21611596 - 04/29/15 12:15 AM (9 years, 22 days ago)

So then we need to go back to the test and figure out something that works.  The notion that sponsor control of content = advertising is too broad and covers a lot of things that you don't want to call ads.


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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
    #21611623 - 04/29/15 12:25 AM (9 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
So then we need to go back to the test and figure out something that works.  The notion that sponsor control of content = advertising is too broad and covers a lot of things that you don't want to call ads.




Sponsor controlled political speech of any kind is subject to the cap.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21611648 - 04/29/15 12:33 AM (9 years, 22 days ago)

That pretty much makes everything subject to the cap.


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
    #21611689 - 04/29/15 12:46 AM (9 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
That pretty much makes everything subject to the cap.




Not really. It prevents sponsors from controlling political content unless it is part of their spending limit.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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