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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: If Stalin or Mao killed more people than Hitler, why is Hitler considered the worst? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21609400 - 04/28/15 02:32 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Hitler's pride, his overwhelming hubris lead to his downfall. The german war machine was the most powerful on the planet, bar none. he had japan on his side though he probably would have turned on them eventually. Stalin too was on his side, all hitler had to do was keep going, not interfere too much and he would have coasted to victory. But against all advice from his generals, he attacked Russia thinking it would be easy. How could a country that size be easy when you already have a western front and usa had joined in?

Just for example, he had the brittish bottled up at Dunkirk, his generals wanted to move in and finish it but hitler said no. So they were able to evacuate and fight again another day. Just one of the stupid blunders hitler made. The biggest by far was attacking Russia. Even with that mistake he almost won. He advanced rapidly taking territory after territory. But, once again against the advice of experienced generals, he paused his attack against stalingrad and waited until winter. That was a fatal blunder or he would have captured Stalingrad for sure which would have dealt a major blow to the Russians. He would have either subdued Russia or set it back enough that they could not launch a strong counter attack plus invading Germany.

It seems like hitler defeated hitler rather than god doing it. But, as you imply, god may have set things up that way regardless of how it looks to us.





Hitler wasn't thinking as a general, he thought he was chosen by God. Thus being able to override his commanders and going to war with Russia and half the world. If he would have taken some time to slowly take over Europe/UK then taking Russia a few years later would have been a piece of cake.


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: If Stalin or Mao killed more people than Hitler, why is Hitler considered the worst? [Re: Bridgeburner] * 1
    #21609423 - 04/28/15 02:37 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

Apparently he had no knowledge of what the 'Rasputitsa' or mud season actually meant in Russia either, as significant as the powerful winters - trying to trudge tons of equipment through deep mud was detrimental to the advance on Moscow - and allowed enough time for fresh veteran reinforcements from Eastern Russia to enforce the battered, unprepared military that had largely been pushed back as fast as the Nazi's could move.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: If Stalin or Mao killed more people than Hitler, why is Hitler considered the worst? [Re: Shins] * 1
    #21609527 - 04/28/15 02:58 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
The zionists stabbed germany in the back during WW1. Germans had very good reason to be leary of jews.

germans didn't just randomly pick jews to prosecute for no reason.  The zionists threw germany under the bus when they made deals with the enemy to help create israel.




Stabbed them in the back?  What did Polish Jews owe the Krauts?  Or French Jews?  Here's who fucked Germany over.  Hitler
If the small number of Jews who lived in Germany were able to fuck the Germans over so much by what rationale did those murderous thugs decide that the Aryan race was a superior race?  Did the Jews living in Polish ghettoes fuck over the Germans?  Boy the Germans must have been some fucking gang of loser retards to get buttfucked by Polish ghetto Jews

They also rounded up homos, gypsies, intellectuals and assorted others.  You are trying to defend scum but you will fail because you lack both a case and intellectual heft.  You and Stormfront, cut and paste.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: If Stalin or Mao killed more people than Hitler, why is Hitler considered the worst? [Re: twighead] * 1
    #21609537 - 04/28/15 03:01 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
Apparently he had no knowledge of what the 'Rasputitsa' or mud season actually meant in Russia either, as significant as the powerful winters - trying to trudge tons of equipment through deep mud was detrimental to the advance on Moscow - and allowed enough time for fresh veteran reinforcements from Eastern Russia to enforce the battered, unprepared military that had largely been pushed back as fast as the Nazi's could move.




Napolean was not that far before him.  The man was a tactical moron.  By the way, I don't think he would have defeated the US and England even if the USSR wasn't involved.  Hey do you know who else was fighting on two fronts?


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OfflineCj-B
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Re: If Stalin or Mao killed more people than Hitler, why is Hitler considered the worst? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21609611 - 04/28/15 03:18 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

twighead said:
Apparently he had no knowledge of what the 'Rasputitsa' or mud season actually meant in Russia either, as significant as the powerful winters - trying to trudge tons of equipment through deep mud was detrimental to the advance on Moscow - and allowed enough time for fresh veteran reinforcements from Eastern Russia to enforce the battered, unprepared military that had largely been pushed back as fast as the Nazi's could move.




Napolean was not that far before him.  The man was a tactical moron.  By the way, I don't think he would have defeated the US and England even if the USSR wasn't involved.  Hey do you know who else was fighting on two fronts?






I dunno about that. The USSR was pivotal for keeping the Germans from reinforcing their Western Front with totally unexpected, savage offensives with an seemingly inexhaustible flood of men and equipment they could redistribute from the less important regions...especially towards the later years of the war when the Russian military was finally returning to form after Stalin's purges destroyed most of it's most brilliant officers. Without them I believe the allies would've been crushed under the weight of millions more veteran troops who also had vastly larger supply lines and industrial capacity.


--------------------
"I have no way of knowing whether you, who eventually will read this record, like stories or not. If you do not, no doubt you have turned these pages without attention. I confess that I love them. Indeed, it often seems to me that of all the good things in the world, the only ones humanity can claim for itself are stories and music; the rest, mercy, beauty, sleep, clean water and hot food (as the Ascian would have said) are all the work of the Increate. Thus, stories are small things indeed in the scheme of the universe, but it is hard not to love best what is our own—hard for me, at least."

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: If Stalin or Mao killed more people than Hitler, why is Hitler considered the worst? [Re: Cj-B]
    #21609622 - 04/28/15 03:22 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Cj-B said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

twighead said:
Apparently he had no knowledge of what the 'Rasputitsa' or mud season actually meant in Russia either, as significant as the powerful winters - trying to trudge tons of equipment through deep mud was detrimental to the advance on Moscow - and allowed enough time for fresh veteran reinforcements from Eastern Russia to enforce the battered, unprepared military that had largely been pushed back as fast as the Nazi's could move.




Napolean was not that far before him.  The man was a tactical moron.  By the way, I don't think he would have defeated the US and England even if the USSR wasn't involved.  Hey do you know who else was fighting on two fronts?






I dunno about that. The USSR was pivotal for keeping the Germans from reinforcing their Western Front with totally unexpected, savage offensives with an seemingly inexhaustible flood of men and equipment they could redistribute from the less important regions...especially towards the later years of the war when the Russian military was finally returning to form after Stalin's purges destroyed most of it's most brilliant officers. Without them I believe the allies would've been crushed under the weight of millions more veteran troops who also had vastly larger supply lines and industrial capacity.




I don't think so.  The US had far more industrial capacity than Germany or the USSR.  I would also point out that the USSR was essentially cannon fodder.  And we built the bomb.  That was a game changer right there.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: If Stalin or Mao killed more people than Hitler, why is Hitler considered the worst? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21609626 - 04/28/15 03:23 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

Yeah people say things like the Russians or the US were the decisive factor about WW2, but that doesn't seem to recognize that Hitler not only lost, he lost in a relatively quick and decisive way.  As well as his good luck in terms of staying alive he is also known for seemingly being doomed to fail in everything he does, whether by fate or his own overconfidence and ineptitude.  IMO he would have lost pretty much no matter what.  In that sense I think he is kind of a tragic (or even comedic) character, and that is kinda another thing that plays into his popularity.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: If Stalin or Mao killed more people than Hitler, why is Hitler considered the worst? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21609637 - 04/28/15 03:27 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

He was a tactical retard micromanager.  It would be like Obama managing a business.


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: If Stalin or Mao killed more people than Hitler, why is Hitler considered the worst? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21609649 - 04/28/15 03:32 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Yeah people say things like the Russians or the US were the decisive factor about WW2, but that doesn't seem to recognize that Hitler not only lost, he lost in a relatively quick and decisive way.  As well as his good luck in terms of staying alive he is also known for seemingly being doomed to fail in everything he does, whether by fate or his own overconfidence and ineptitude.  IMO he would have lost pretty much no matter what.  In that sense I think he is kind of a tragic (or even comedic) character, and that is kinda another thing that plays into his popularity.




The US was decisive in Japan, since they were basically the only ones to do anything :lol:


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OfflineCj-B
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Re: If Stalin or Mao killed more people than Hitler, why is Hitler considered the worst? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21609661 - 04/28/15 03:35 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Cj-B said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

twighead said:
Apparently he had no knowledge of what the 'Rasputitsa' or mud season actually meant in Russia either, as significant as the powerful winters - trying to trudge tons of equipment through deep mud was detrimental to the advance on Moscow - and allowed enough time for fresh veteran reinforcements from Eastern Russia to enforce the battered, unprepared military that had largely been pushed back as fast as the Nazi's could move.




Napolean was not that far before him.  The man was a tactical moron.  By the way, I don't think he would have defeated the US and England even if the USSR wasn't involved.  Hey do you know who else was fighting on two fronts?






I dunno about that. The USSR was pivotal for keeping the Germans from reinforcing their Western Front with totally unexpected, savage offensives with an seemingly inexhaustible flood of men and equipment they could redistribute from the less important regions...especially towards the later years of the war when the Russian military was finally returning to form after Stalin's purges destroyed most of it's most brilliant officers. Without them I believe the allies would've been crushed under the weight of millions more veteran troops who also had vastly larger supply lines and industrial capacity.




I don't think so.  The US had far more industrial capacity than Germany or the USSR.  I would also point out that the USSR was essentially cannon fodder.  And we built the bomb.  That was a game changer right there.





Cannon fodder? Perhaps at first, but as far as I know that 'send waves of unarmed men after ordering them to pick up a fallen mans rifle' thing from Enemy at the Gates only happened in a very small amount of occasions when the Soviets NEEDED to stop the German advance and would conscript people with zero training and no weapons and throw them at the enemy to delay until troops with proper logistical support could move in/entrench their position. They certainly suffered vastly more casualties than any of the other Allies but a lot of it was just lack of sophistication in their logistics (until the latter half of the war) and the fact that Stalins purges absolutely devastated what just a decade beforehand was one of the most well trained and equipped armies in the world. IIRC immediately before the war began the purges wiped out nearly 80,000 officers including a few field marshalls and a couple hundred ranking generals (including the general that initially conceived of one of their most effective tactics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Tukhachevsky ). As the war continued and they reformed their military structure the Soviets started getting far, far lower numbers of casualties killed/missing and started crushing the Germans eastern front.


Agreed on the bomb though. That kind of escalation of force would've brought even the Wehrmacht to a grinding halt.


--------------------
"I have no way of knowing whether you, who eventually will read this record, like stories or not. If you do not, no doubt you have turned these pages without attention. I confess that I love them. Indeed, it often seems to me that of all the good things in the world, the only ones humanity can claim for itself are stories and music; the rest, mercy, beauty, sleep, clean water and hot food (as the Ascian would have said) are all the work of the Increate. Thus, stories are small things indeed in the scheme of the universe, but it is hard not to love best what is our own—hard for me, at least."

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Offlineteamkiller
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Re: If Stalin or Mao killed more people than Hitler, why is Hitler considered the worst? [Re: Cj-B] * 1
    #21609684 - 04/28/15 03:43 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

this thread got really really weird.  I love it someone accuses zappa of being too liberal though.


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OfflineCj-B
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Re: If Stalin or Mao killed more people than Hitler, why is Hitler considered the worst? [Re: teamkiller] * 1
    #21609686 - 04/28/15 03:44 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

:shrug: I like talking about history.


--------------------
"I have no way of knowing whether you, who eventually will read this record, like stories or not. If you do not, no doubt you have turned these pages without attention. I confess that I love them. Indeed, it often seems to me that of all the good things in the world, the only ones humanity can claim for itself are stories and music; the rest, mercy, beauty, sleep, clean water and hot food (as the Ascian would have said) are all the work of the Increate. Thus, stories are small things indeed in the scheme of the universe, but it is hard not to love best what is our own—hard for me, at least."

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OfflineKonyap

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Re: If Stalin or Mao killed more people than Hitler, why is Hitler considered the worst? [Re: Cj-B]
    #21609869 - 04/28/15 04:40 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

we would have nuked Berlin had we hadn't had two practice dummies in the east..

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OfflineKonyap

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Re: If Stalin or Mao killed more people than Hitler, why is Hitler considered the worst? [Re: Konyap]
    #21609872 - 04/28/15 04:41 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

The second bomb was clearly a demonstration of power

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: If Stalin or Mao killed more people than Hitler, why is Hitler considered the worst? [Re: Konyap]
    #21609882 - 04/28/15 04:45 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

The second bomb was a testament that we had more than one.  Of course, we didn't tell them that we only had two.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: If Stalin or Mao killed more people than Hitler, why is Hitler considered the worst? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21609965 - 04/28/15 05:11 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The second bomb was a testament that we had more than one.  Of course, we didn't tell them that we only had two.





They wanted to test the new weapon on a city that was mostly wood buildings and a city which was mostly stone buildings, both of which undamaged by the war, to see what a nuclear weapon would do.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: If Stalin or Mao killed more people than Hitler, why is Hitler considered the worst? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21609976 - 04/28/15 05:14 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

I said zionists not jews threw germany under the bus.  German zionists made deals with Britain to help them create Israel in exchange them helping britain and france win the war, which they were losing.  German citizen zionists committed treason and made significant strategic plans with germany's enemy, because they saw an opportunity to create a Zionist Israel.  After the USA was tricked into joining WW1, the british were freed up and promptly conquered the Ottoman empire with the help of the saudis. 

Hate them all you want but germans had good reason to be suspicious of jews.  In the aftermath of WW1 germany suffered great losses both human and economic.  People were burning money because it was cheaper than wood.  Germany was in terrible shape and the Zionist sellout played a big part in that.  Its no wonder germans disliked jews and so easily rallied against them.


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: If Stalin or Mao killed more people than Hitler, why is Hitler considered the worst? [Re: Shins] * 2
    #21610028 - 04/28/15 05:30 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
I said zionists not jews threw germany under the bus.  German zionists made deals with Britain to help them create Israel in exchange them helping britain and france win the war, which they were losing.  German citizen zionists committed treason and made significant strategic plans with germany's enemy, because they saw an opportunity to create a Zionist Israel.  After the USA was tricked into joining WW1, the british were freed up and promptly conquered the Ottoman empire with the help of the saudis. 

Hate them all you want but germans had good reason to be suspicious of jews.  In the aftermath of WW1 germany suffered great losses both human and economic.  People were burning money because it was cheaper than wood.  Germany was in terrible shape and the Zionist sellout played a big part in that.  Its no wonder germans disliked jews and so easily rallied against them.





Do you have any legitimate links to back up the scope of what you propose? A minority percentage of 1% of Germany's population was responsible for them losing the war? :lol: Even though that 1% had the highest percentage of fighting for the German military of all groups in Germany?

No, this issue is far more ancient than that, and didn't start happening because of some bullshit scapegoat for losing WWI :lol: Jews have always had varying - but usually poor oppressive treatment in that area of Europe - when Napoleon invaded he emancipated all the Jews - giving them the equal rights they had been denied - but the subsequent wave of nationalism after his fall in the early 1800s saw Jew's stripped of their rights, businesses destroyed, and killed.

You see - that is what this is really about... NATIONALISM. About having enemies that are 'different', 'parasites' and 'undermining the great nation' to focus the collective anger of a people against so that they will not focus on the source of their actual problems... their government.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: If Stalin or Mao killed more people than Hitler, why is Hitler considered the worst? [Re: twighead]
    #21610057 - 04/28/15 05:38 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

He has nothing and never has had anything.  Why he persists in insisting that a tiny population could fuck Germany over is a mystery to me.  It is an argument that the Germans are loser retards.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: If Stalin or Mao killed more people than Hitler, why is Hitler considered the worst? [Re: Shins]
    #21610059 - 04/28/15 05:39 PM (9 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
I said zionists not jews threw germany under the bus.  German zionists made deals with Britain to help them create Israel in exchange them helping britain and france win the war, which they were losing.  German citizen zionists committed treason and made significant strategic plans with germany's enemy, because they saw an opportunity to create a Zionist Israel.  After the USA was tricked into joining WW1, the british were freed up and promptly conquered the Ottoman empire with the help of the saudis. 

Hate them all you want but germans had good reason to be suspicious of jews.  In the aftermath of WW1 germany suffered great losses both human and economic.  People were burning money because it was cheaper than wood.  Germany was in terrible shape and the Zionist sellout played a big part in that.  Its no wonder germans disliked jews and so easily rallied against them.




Of course, only a moron could dispute that. Speaking of which, I see zappa ranting again about jews being the superior race. I guess that makes him an admitted racist. Not that any of us are surprised.

Many Zionists are not jews, its the Zionists who are the evil ones, the inheritors of hitler's legacy. They really worship hitler in their own way. Just as many of the evil Zionists are not jews, many jews are not Zionists, are not bad people and do not support the aggressive war crimes of the parasite state. Zap is a Zionist. nuff said.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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