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Enlil
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Registered: 08/16/03
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But that limit wouldn't apply to my scenario. A person could spend billions with mailers, basically, and your limit wouldn't do anything to stop it.
Of course, it doesn't have to be mailers. It could be TV channels as well, and they could get people to watch by having entertaining little vignettes between the editorials and stories. Hell, they could basically be full TV shows with editorials attached throughout much like commercials are today, only these aren't paid ads, because they come from the station and not an outside entity.
Of course, it'd all still be paid by the same corporate interests that pays for political ads today.
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Enlil
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
#21600899 - 04/26/15 07:30 PM (9 years, 24 days ago) |
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Another great idea: Produce a "movie" that is really just a long advertisement for a candidate. That movie isn't an ad, though, because people have to pay to see it. No one will except the choir, of course, but that doesn't stop the producers of the movie from advertising that movie. Imagine how many trailers for that movie could be all over television...What might such a trailer look like? Probably very similar to a political ad of today, with perhaps "in theatres now" tacked to the end.
There are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of ways around whatever exceptions your law has, and ONLY the rich will be able to exploit those.
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Bigbadwooof
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Enlil said: Okay, so someone starts a "conservative daily news", and it's handed out freely to people on the streets and mailed to everyone in the nation. The CDN is supported by advertisers, mostly corporate giants like Walmart and Monsanto, who advertise their products in this paper.
All this paper does is print articles and editorials criticizing liberal candidates and positions, and praising conservative candidates and positions.
Sounds like a simple way around your little law.
Sure, let someone do that. It'll go right to the trash for most people who aren't interested, because it's not something they have to read to get to something they want. I'm not trying to put a stop to all political speech, as you are trying to imply. I'm saying there should be a per person spending limit on advertising.
Right. How many people read a free newspaper shoved in their mailbox? I sure as fuck don't. They could already do this, and would, if it were advantageous. These laws would reduce the capability to strategically market a candidate to the public via massive sums of cash, and place more weight on a powerful message, that can only be delievered so often.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
#21600923 - 04/26/15 07:34 PM (9 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Another great idea: Produce a "movie" that is really just a long advertisement for a candidate. That movie isn't an ad, though, because people have to pay to see it. No one will except the choir, of course, but that doesn't stop the producers of the movie from advertising that movie. Imagine how many trailers for that movie could be all over television...What might such a trailer look like? Probably very similar to a political ad of today, with perhaps "in theatres now" tacked to the end.
There are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of ways around whatever exceptions your law has, and ONLY the rich will be able to exploit those.
Trailers are advertisements. If that trailer includes advocacy for a candidate, it's a political advertisement.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21600940 - 04/26/15 07:38 PM (9 years, 24 days ago) |
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There are liberals with lots of money, and liberal organizations that could contest these corporate lawyers, you know. In fact, there are people and organizations on both sides that would bolster the new rules' effectiveness. In the mean time, while the devious lawyers are working out how to tear up the new laws, we elect better officials, and get rid of the Hillary Clintons and Jeb Bush's in politics.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (04/26/15 07:40 PM)
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Enlil
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21600963 - 04/26/15 07:42 PM (9 years, 24 days ago) |
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Who cares if they're liberal or conservative? The rich will be heard and the poor wont
So, Michael Moore can't advertise his movies?
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
#21600988 - 04/26/15 07:48 PM (9 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Who cares if they're liberal or conservative? The rich will be heard and the poor wont
So, Michael Moore can't advertise his movies?
Michael Moore doesn't make movies advocating political candidates, to my knowledge.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
#21600998 - 04/26/15 07:49 PM (9 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: But that limit wouldn't apply to my scenario. A person could spend billions with mailers, basically, and your limit wouldn't do anything to stop it.
Mailers are advertising costs, so there should be a per person limit for that.
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
Enlil said: Another great idea: Produce a "movie" that is really just a long advertisement for a candidate. That movie isn't an ad, though, because people have to pay to see it. No one will except the choir, of course, but that doesn't stop the producers of the movie from advertising that movie. Imagine how many trailers for that movie could be all over television...What might such a trailer look like? Probably very similar to a political ad of today, with perhaps "in theatres now" tacked to the end.
Trailers are advertisements. If that trailer includes advocacy for a candidate, it's a political advertisement.
EXACTLY
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21601007 - 04/26/15 07:51 PM (9 years, 24 days ago) |
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His movies are political speech, and he advocates about political issues. You can't tell me Fahrenheit 911 wasn't critical of Bush or that bowling for columbine wasn't 99% about gun control.
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Bigbadwooof
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You're actually making it seem more workable to me with every post, Enlil. More than I had imagined.
One way I could see things going south, is for media outlets to charge big corporations less money to post advertisements, in return for favors, etc.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
#21601025 - 04/26/15 07:54 PM (9 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: His movies are political speech, and he advocates about political issues. You can't tell me Fahrenheit 911 wasn't critical of Bush or that bowling for columbine wasn't 99% about gun control.
I want him to be able to talk about the issues, like gun control, as much as he pleases. I want the conversation to be about real issues again.
I want consevatives to be able to talk about how much they hste gays, minorities, poor people, and women all they want too! Freedom baby!
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (04/26/15 07:55 PM)
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21601033 - 04/26/15 07:56 PM (9 years, 24 days ago) |
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I want people to figure out their ideals, and vote for the candidate who supports those ideals.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21601037 - 04/26/15 07:57 PM (9 years, 24 days ago) |
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So you're okay with him advertising his movies or not?
And it seems like you're okay with people spending millions on political speech as long as it's what you consider, "real issues"
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
#21601047 - 04/26/15 07:58 PM (9 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: So you're okay with him advertising his movies or not?
And it seems like you're okay with people spending millions on political speech as long as it's what you consider, "real issues"
Advocating gun control is completely different than advocating Hillary.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Bigbadwooof] 1
#21601075 - 04/26/15 08:00 PM (9 years, 24 days ago) |
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Not in any meaningful way. Both are political speech and crucial to a free society.
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Stonehenge
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21601103 - 04/26/15 08:04 PM (9 years, 24 days ago) |
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>Advocating gun control is completely different than advocating Hillary.
Of course! we are talking about promoting or knocking a political candidate. We don't have to gut the first nor stop anyone speaking. If they can figure out how to get people to pay to watch an ad then they have a way around it but that's hard to do.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Stonehenge]
#21601145 - 04/26/15 08:13 PM (9 years, 24 days ago) |
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Also, do you think candidates even want full length movies to be made about them? How many shitty movies made for advertising ability would it take before people stopped going to them at all. Sounds very fuckin costly. The movies would be hotly debated online, and the discrepencies would be clearly pointed out to the public. I know Hillary wouldn't want that movie, or its counterpart! Lol
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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Enlil
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Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Bigbadwooof] 1
#21601153 - 04/26/15 08:15 PM (9 years, 24 days ago) |
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The movies would be inconsequential. They would only exist to legitimize trailers.
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Stonehenge
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21601177 - 04/26/15 08:19 PM (9 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: Also, do you think candidates even want full length movies to be made about them? How many shitty movies made for advertising ability would it take before people stopped going to them at all. Sounds very fuckin costly. The movies would be hotly debated online, and the discrepencies would be clearly pointed out to the public. I know Hillary wouldn't want that movie, or its counterpart! Lol
Movies are expensive to make, very expensive. They are expensive to promote too. So if it was a boring propaganda movie, the critics will trash it, the public will avoid it and it will be a multi million dollar bomb to the movie maker. No movie maker is going to fill his work with crap. M moore may make some junk but he is pandering to his base. If they can make a movie people pay to watch that promotes hillbilly then they have found a way around the new rules. I'll believe it when I see it.
Now the nay sayer will try to shoot down all our ideas again.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Enlil
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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil] 1
#21601180 - 04/26/15 08:20 PM (9 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: The movies would be inconsequential. They would only exist to legitimize trailers.
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