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Offlinegraveey

Registered: 01/31/13
Posts: 163
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Qualitative study into mushroom size and potency?
    #21581463 - 04/22/15 06:43 PM (9 years, 28 days ago)

Can anyone point me in the direction of any research papers which support the notion that smaller fruits are more potent? I can't seem to find ANY evidence to support this other than the usual jabber that people spread.

If there isn't any research into this then I'm interested in conducting some of my own. I obviously don't have the means to conduct any quantitative analyses on psilocybin content etc, but I would be up for conducting a study which might help to answer it from a qualitative perspective.

Method would include taking a large clone and growing it out twice, A and B.

Grow A you would harvest when the fruits are less than a certain height (e.g 3cm)
Grow B you would harvest when the fruits are a minimum of a certain height (e.g 9cm)

Harvest same weight of mushrooms from each grow. Grind into a powder and conduct a blind test.

Make sure you consider external effects such as diet and environment etc.

Write a detailed analysis of your trips both during and after, and then compare them. Do this at least a few times to increase the reliability of the results.

Pretty simple really and although it's not exactly empirical it's still a test and fuck it, it's something which sounds fun and I get to take loads of mushies in the process :wink:

BUT if anyone knows of any research papers which empirically show that smaller fruits are more potent then I'd love to read them!

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Invisibletomentose
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Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 27
Loc: On a Roll
Re: Qualitative study into mushroom size and potency? [Re: graveey]
    #21582160 - 04/22/15 09:41 PM (9 years, 28 days ago)

How about 1 crop grown from a clone. Harvest one mush while it's small and one after it grows larger. Sample 1g of each.


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Offlinekeeno
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Re: Qualitative study into mushroom size and potency? [Re: tomentose]
    #21588981 - 04/24/15 04:24 AM (9 years, 26 days ago)

correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought that there was a finite amount of psilocybin in the mushroom, and the larger it was, the more dilute it was. so a bit like comparing a pint of beer to a shot of whisky - same amount of alcohol, but one is more concentrated than the other...

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Offlinegraveey

Registered: 01/31/13
Posts: 163
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Re: Qualitative study into mushroom size and potency? [Re: keeno]
    #21589079 - 04/24/15 05:52 AM (9 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

keeno said:
correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought that there was a finite amount of psilocybin in the mushroom, and the larger it was, the more dilute it was. so a bit like comparing a pint of beer to a shot of whisky - same amount of alcohol, but one is more concentrated than the other...




This is my point. People say this kind of thing the whole time but can anyone back it up with any scientific literature? It's all just hearsay

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Offlinekeeno
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Re: Qualitative study into mushroom size and potency? [Re: graveey]
    #21589100 - 04/24/15 06:06 AM (9 years, 26 days ago)

fair enough :smile:


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Offlineknarkkorven
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Re: Qualitative study into mushroom size and potency? [Re: keeno]
    #21593699 - 04/25/15 04:16 AM (9 years, 25 days ago)

I think what you are looking for instead of "smaller fruits are more potent" might be "younger fruits are more potent".

Smaller (=larger proportion of young) Psilocybe semilanceata are more potent than big/old mushrooms (Jokiranta (1984) and Christiansen et.al (1981))
I have compiled a diagram from data that are claimed to origin from Christiansen's investigation of P. semilanceata from Norway:
http://wiki.magiskamolekyler.org/images/6/61/Psilocybin_vikt.jpg

P. Cubensis stipes are weaker than the caps (Tsujikawa et. al (2003) and Bigwood (1981)).

Perhaps the proportion of stipe/cap in young vs. old (full gown) mushroom could explain this. Another theory is that every mushroom is "born" with a certain amount of active alkaloids that don't change over time. Many people witness that aborted P. cubensis are more potent than the same weight of large mushrooms. I haven't seen any research about this claim, but it could be explained/supported by the studies mentioned above.

If you however are looking for proof of "smaller fruits are more potent" and mean smaller full grown mushrooms, I haven't heard or read anything about this claim. Smaller full grown mushrooms are often caused by less nutrients or amount of substrate, but on the other hand, it doesn't rule out the possibility of every mushroom have a certain amount from the beginning.

In any case, this would mean that the really big cubes would be the weakest (mg/g)... Do anyone have personal experiences of this?

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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Qualitative study into mushroom size and potency? [Re: knarkkorven]
    #21594566 - 04/25/15 11:02 AM (9 years, 25 days ago)

I grow big strains (AA+) and I don't notice they're any weaker than any other mushrooms. I'm pretty sure the whole "smaller mushrooms are more potent" was just something RR pulled out of his ass.


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Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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InvisibleWillSolvem
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Re: Qualitative study into mushroom size and potency? [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #21641552 - 05/05/15 09:09 PM (9 years, 15 days ago)

My own personal experiments show a increase in potency with maturity, makes sense that a secondary metabolite containing a phosphate ester takes some time to produce in good quantity...


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AMU Q&A Thread because questions deserve answers.

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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Qualitative study into mushroom size and potency? [Re: WillSolvem]
    #21641939 - 05/05/15 10:24 PM (9 years, 15 days ago)

I never thought of it that way, but it makes sense. I just haven't noticed one way or the other except when they go WAY too long, like have concave cap and are black from spores.


--------------------
Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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OfflineMateo
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Re: Qualitative study into mushroom size and potency? [Re: graveey]
    #21690669 - 05/17/15 01:46 PM (9 years, 3 days ago)

I would also be interested in some scientific paper about this.

My personal experience with wild growing Psilocybe semilanceata is that smaller specimens is absolutely more potent than bigger specimens.
It is a big difference.

If one samples 2 different collections of say 2 grams of dried mushrooms where the first is only smaller specimens and the second is only larger specimens, the first one is going to be almost twice as potent.
This is my personal experience and it is with P Semilanceata picked growing in the wild.

Any paper showing some proof of this would be of great interest to me.


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Offlineknarkkorven
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Re: Qualitative study into mushroom size and potency? [Re: Mateo]
    #21702666 - 05/20/15 02:59 PM (9 years, 7 hours ago)

Quote:

Any paper showing some proof of this would be of great interest to me.



See my previous reply for the references.

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Qualitative study into mushroom size and potency? [Re: knarkkorven]
    #21702896 - 05/20/15 04:05 PM (9 years, 6 hours ago)

most things have 100s of studies and then there's meta studies that go over all the studies and compare the results and limitations in some way and even then there's often times not really dramatic findings. there's a handful of papers on the actives in mushrooms. I call shenanigans if anyone calls it proof just because it's a scholarly article, it's cool to talk about but it's not definitive


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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Qualitative study into mushroom size and potency? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21703315 - 05/20/15 05:49 PM (9 years, 4 hours ago)

A theory of mine is that all mushrooms are born equal and that the notice of increase of potency with aborts is only due to the fact of the difficulty in our stomachs breaking down the high lignin content.

Drink 6 beers on an empty stomach, drink 6 on a full stomach kind of thing.

If it is ever done by OP I would be interested in seeing 4 tests, 2 eating whole mushrooms then 2 with tea, tincture, or possibly powder.

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