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OfflineTheIrishDon
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Bad Trips - Research Planning
    #21302656 - 02/20/15 08:23 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Hello everyone,

I am wondering what peoples thoughts on bad trips are? I am currently in the process of developing a research project for my Masters project based around psilocybin-based magic mushroom use. I wanted to see if there are any specific areas in regards to bad trips that you feel has been overlooked. Does this type of research interest anyone? I am also trying to gauge responses and see how easy it would be to recruit people for some in-depth interviews (of course anonymity would be of upmost importance). Thank you, and any feedback is greatly appreciated!

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OfflineLittleDaddy
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Re: Bad Trips - Research Planning [Re: TheIrishDon]
    #21302723 - 02/20/15 08:40 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheIrishDon said:
Hello everyone,

I am wondering what peoples thoughts on bad trips are? I am currently in the process of developing a research project for my Masters project based around psilocybin-based magic mushroom use. I wanted to see if there are any specific areas in regards to bad trips that you feel has been overlooked. Does this type of research interest anyone? I am also trying to gauge responses and see how easy it would be to recruit people for some in-depth interviews (of course anonymity would be of upmost importance). Thank you, and any feedback is greatly appreciated!




The differences between people who trip often and have one and people who don't have one. And drug use following someone's first bad trip. My friend stopped everything for over a year.


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OfflineTheIrishDon
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Re: Bad Trips - Research Planning [Re: LittleDaddy]
    #21302879 - 02/20/15 09:13 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Interesting, so the idea that bad trips may deter future use? I am actually considering basing the project around inexperienced vs experienced users to see there are any differences between those who have done mushrooms once and had a bad time versus those who have done it often but also have had a bad tri.

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Offlinekeeno
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Re: Bad Trips - Research Planning [Re: TheIrishDon]
    #21321859 - 02/24/15 09:24 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

it'd be interesting to ask everyone "would they consider their last trip, mainly good or bad, on a 1-5 scale, how good or bad, how long ago was it."

then you could compare the amount people who had given up (approx 3 years or more without tripping) after a good or bad trip.

It's tricky simplifying an experience so complex and varied as a trip, into just good or bad. Could you expand on your definition of "bad" or are you leaving it 100% up to the person who had had the experience to judge?

I think a person having their first trip and classing it as "bad" would not constitute the same level of discomfort and badness, as an experienced user who might be using the drug for different reasons and expectations. They might go "that was fucking intense and I discovered something about myself there that are really painful, but I do actually feel a little better, slightly purged"
where as after the first time you might just go "that was fucking mental, I think I went mad, I'm not doing that again"

are you considering dosage as well?
Dr Roland Griffiths, as I'm sure you know was getting results of 90% really positive feedback from his terminally ill patients he was working with. I think there were pretty high dosage's as well, removing some of the set/ setting issues...

I think they learn you something pretty fast, if only to make sure you do it in a nicer spot next time and make sure that dick, Brian*, isn't about :laugh:


* or Steve, or Pete, or Sarah, or whoever the person was that wrecked your head as you were trying to melt into "Wish you were here" :laugh:


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OfflineNightontheSun
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Re: Bad Trips - Research Planning [Re: keeno]
    #21351460 - 03/02/15 10:49 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I'm with keeno on this one. In order to get the best results variables of a bad trip should be laid out before hand. For example, a bad trip could be considered as one without spiritual and or mental enlightenment despite high trip intensity. So basically a bad time while tripping that produces an awareness of something life altering in a positive way could still be labeled an seen as good.

This "syllabus" shouldn't be too long but should cover enough that everyone is considering the same things when deciding if it was a good or bad trip they had encountered. Just my two cents. If done correctly I would most certainly be interested in the findings. Good luck!


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: Bad Trips - Research Planning (moved) [Re: TheIrishDon]
    #21418832 - 03/17/15 12:45 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

This thread was moved from Shroomery University.

Reason:
Belongs here.

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OfflineBudsbunni
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Re: Bad Trips - Research Planning (moved) [Re: TheIrishDon]
    #21422544 - 03/17/15 06:05 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

:badshroom:

Bad trips are usually generated by your state of mind and mindfulness towards the psychedelic. If you resist the energy the hallucinogen is blessing you with, you will find it hard to let your trip flow harmoniously, apposed to a trip where you set your brain at ease and fully allow the drug to take affect of you as it pleases. For amateurs, more variables can affect the perception of your experience such as setting and company. In any situation you are in control of your perception, there fore what is a BAD trip ?

:jah:


Peace & Love
:heartpump:


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Offlinehealing
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Re: Bad Trips - Research Planning (moved) [Re: Budsbunni] * 1
    #21425057 - 03/18/15 01:00 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

OP, are you aware of Erowid?


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Offlinekeeno
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Re: Bad Trips - Research Planning (moved) [Re: healing]
    #21425225 - 03/18/15 02:51 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

^^ this times a million :smile:

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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: Bad Trips - Research Planning [Re: TheIrishDon]
    #21428030 - 03/18/15 06:35 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

How are you going to define a "bad trip"? Do you have a specific definition or are you just working off what people themselves define as a bad trip?

A slight problem is that the whole concept of a "bad trip" is a bit misleading. There was a salvia study where they used a definition of a bad trip as "a difficult experience marked with anxiety" which seems fair enough, but during a multi-hour mushroom or LSD trip usually the "difficult experience" is a transitory effect during small sections of the trip, not something that defines the whole experience.

There's also an issue of expectations. If you have limited experience with psychedelics, it's easy to underestimate the intensity of a strong trip. When the experience becomes difficult and starts to generate anxiety, that can be labelled as a "bad trip" -  but someone with more experience may deliberately put themselves through this, knowing that the anxiety will pass and the later stages of the trip will be worthwhile. One person's "bad trip" is another person's "situation normal".

I think a classic "bad trip" boils down to a panic attack intensified by psychedelics. This can generate a lot of physical symptoms (some real, some imaginary) accompanied by an overwhelming fear of imminent death. Your thoughts are running out of control along with your anxiety levels, and the confusing, dissociated / delusory mindscape of the trip just adds to the intensity of the fear.

Personally I would stick to a definition of a bad trip which is "all in the mind" - where nothing is actually wrong, the tripper is in no real danger and the only problem is the anxiety and fear itself.

Of course, there are plenty of genuinely bad situations which occur during trips, but I wouldn't say these are "bad trips" exactly as in many cases the anxiety of the tripper is more than justified; the situation is well beyond a simple "freakout". I think Erowid define them as "train wrecks" to distinguish them from straightforward "difficult experiences". A couple of examples:

[BromoDragonFLY] Hospital, nearly die.. Welcome to BromoDeadFLY !

RC vendor mixes up his chems and ALMOST KILLED ME

Then there are rare cases where the trip transitions into psychosis. Again, I wouldn't really call this a "bad trip" as such, especially as the tripper may not be aware that anything is wrong:

LSD and hyperventilation psychosis: my multiple day descent into madness

And for a more general "bad trip" thread, this might be interesting:

How are your bad trips?


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InvisibleBuck513

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Re: Bad Trips - Research Planning [Re: Aldebaran]
    #21428120 - 03/18/15 06:54 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I remember this one bad trip I had, it fucked me up for months. I tripped during the night and for weeks after that trip I did my best to avoid any darkness. Be it outside, in my home, wherever. I always turned a bunch of lights on. The darkness just seemed to make me sad and depressed. I'm completely fine now though and have had many fantastic trips since then. In fact, my last trip about 4 weeks ago was probably my best trip ever. But without a doubt I agree a bad trip can effect your future usage, of all drugs for that matter.


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Offlinegushtunkinflupped
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Re: Bad Trips - Research Planning [Re: Buck513]
    #21428980 - 03/18/15 10:12 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

A "bad trip" can mean so many different things...none of which are mutually exclusive.

It might mean a difficult experience where you come to terms with deep seated issues that you've been neglecting for a lifetime, or come to terms with deep seated issues on a global scale and feel the visceral horror of it all.

Then there is difficult experiences with entities/scenarios in hyperspace, of all sorts. Resisting any experience can lead to fear taking control of you, at which point all perception can feel like an assault.

A complex labyrinth of delusion can descend on you if you resist it or take it in a poor set/setting. Delusions about yourself, others, your relationship with them, reality, everything. Some common themes are the idea that people reading your mind. One of the most common one is the jesus-trip, where you think you're the messiah, essentially, but this can happen in endless scenarios/ways. I've actually read threads on it and many had experienced it to some degree or other. I think it stems back to us sensing the deeper unity/oneness of all within us (we are the universe experiencing itself yada yada), but warping it through our normal ego mechanics into various degrees of delusion.

Then there is the butt-naked in the street screaming at the locals trip to the hospital trip.


For the most part, I've experienced all of the above. The good ones make it worth it, and many of the bad ones I did end up learning something good through, so I usually don't classify trips into "good" or "bad" categories. I can say though that during an extremely rough one, I've sworn off tripping entirely, and afterwards it may be months or even close to a year before another deep experience.

Caution is certainly warranted. You may trip hundreds of times and think that trainwreck trip will never happen to me...until you get cocky and it does. I don't want to scare people off; my point is just to emphasize how powerful and unpredictable this can be, how serious it is, and how caution is necessary.


--------------------

Edited by gushtunkinflupped (03/18/15 10:16 PM)

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OfflineHHH2
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Re: Bad Trips - Research Planning [Re: TheIrishDon]
    #21429127 - 03/18/15 11:06 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

From what I can gather I've only ever had a "Bad Trip" during my worst bouts of illness totally unrelated to the use of psychedelics.  By that I mean running a fever, dry heaving, and laying in bed in a sub-catatonic state for days on end.  At a certain point during my suffering I'll drift in and out of consciousness in a nightmarish hell in which I begin hallucinating.  The strongest and most vivid of these hallucinations is being tormented by the bone chilling howls from haunted Indian burial grounds not unlike those depicted in the Hanna-Barbera Scooby Doo series.  I suppose that that's just how my conscious mind tries to make sense of what's going on in my fever-induced hallucinating unconscious state, but it's the only thing that I liken to a "Bad Trip".

In terms of bad trips while using psychedelics (namely marijuana, mushrooms, and/or LSD) they're non-existent.  The closest I've come to a bad trip however was when I miss-dosed too much kratom, and almost had to purge from how ill it made my stomach.  Other than that, my most common symptom of a bad trip would be a throbbing headache, and most severe symptom is having to puke from eating or smoking too much.

Also, I'm sure this one is obvious, but talking to the police while high is always a bad trip as well. lol!  I would say that since I always keep myself in a positive/elevated mood, apart from being sick, my environment and the people around me are the most important contributing factors as to whether I have a good or bad trip. 

Hope this helps, mate!

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OfflineTheIrishDon
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Re: Bad Trips - Research Planning [Re: HHH2]
    #21545327 - 04/14/15 07:40 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks that does help actually quite a bit. Thanks for the responses, I really appreciate it. I am now considering focusing my research on the social and cultural context of psilocybin use. Coming from a background in anthropology, I thought it might be interesting to approach this from that academic perspective. Perhaps "recreational" mushrooms use performs certain social functions that Western society tends to lack.

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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Bad Trips - Research Planning [Re: TheIrishDon]
    #21546255 - 04/14/15 12:28 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)


Quote:

TheIrishDon said:
Perhaps "recreational" mushrooms use performs certain social functions that Western society tends to lack.





:pleasetellmemore:


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Offlinehealing
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Re: Bad Trips - Research Planning [Re: TheIrishDon]
    #21546267 - 04/14/15 12:31 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TheIrishDon said:
Thanks that does help actually quite a bit. Thanks for the responses, I really appreciate it. I am now considering focusing my research on the social and cultural context of psilocybin use. Coming from a background in anthropology, I thought it might be interesting to approach this from that academic perspective. Perhaps "recreational" mushrooms use performs certain social functions that Western society tends to lack.




You don't seem to know much about this subject. Some of us have been studying psilocybin mushrooms for decades. I think you need to do a lot more reading first.


--------------------
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OfflineTheIrishDon
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Re: Bad Trips - Research Planning [Re: healing]
    #21580162 - 04/22/15 12:38 PM (9 years, 28 days ago)

Noted

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OfflineAiko Aiko
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Re: Bad Trips - Research Planning [Re: TheIrishDon]
    #21580240 - 04/22/15 01:05 PM (9 years, 28 days ago)

Im 35, when I was around 17 and fairly inexperienced with fungus, I ate 7 grams and flipped the fuck out! That by most standards is a fairly large dose especially for someone who had only done it a couple times. I mean my parents took me to the hospital cause I was so incoherent for a couple hours. They didnt know any better. Luckily by the time I got there, I had come down enough to the point of talking them out of actually taking me inside. We sat in the parking lot for a while while I slowly came down and was able to talk to them relatively normally. Thats what I would call a bad trip.

So even in my "old age",  I still trip semi frequently, but mostly on LSD, though I will trip occasionally on mush. Ever since then, I'm hyper-sensitive to psilocybin. I can trip pretty hard off less than a gram penis envy, about 1.5 of any other strain. A good trip nowadays is a trip is any I dont end up at the hospital from, lol, JK! Hope that helps!

Edited by Aiko Aiko (04/22/15 01:07 PM)

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